Author Topic: 2011 CB Draft Western Playoffs: 1st Round  (Read 44946 times)

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Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Blazers (2) V Spurs (7)
« Reply #150 on: August 02, 2011, 03:16:46 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Boozer's career stats against Amare are irrelevant because he has never faced Amare when Amare had a center of Bogut's defensive abilities alongside him.

Boozer feasted on weak Phoenix Suns and NY Knicks teams that had little to no interior defense. That is not the case with this Portland Trailblazers team.

Andrew Bogut is one of the best interior defenders in the league. It's a game changer.

I wouldn't say that Mehmet Okur was scaring Amare that much either...


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Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Blazers (2) V Spurs (7)
« Reply #151 on: August 02, 2011, 03:19:00 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I mean assuming full health do people think Bogut is a huge upgrade over Kaman? They're almost the same player to me.

Really?  Even fully healthy, I don't think that Kaman is 1/4 the defensive player that Bogut is.
Not to mention that when both are healthy Kaman isn't even that much better of an offensive player. Not by nearly a big enough margin to make up the gap on the other end of the floor.

Looking at 2009-10. The last season both were at their healthiest and also the best season either ever had career wise.

Bogut 15.9 pts, 2.5 blks, 10.1 boards, 63% free throw, 52% Field Goal
Kaman 18.5 pts, 1.2 blks, 9.2 boards, 75% free throw, 49% Field Goal

Fully healthy Bogut had the edge on the boards and protecting the rim, but Kaman was the better offensive player overall when you factor in free throws. I think in as close a series as this will be that must be factored in because you will be more hesitant to put the ball in a bad free throw shooter's hands at the end of games.

I just don't see a Huge advantage here. I would want Bogut more but if I missed on him and had to settle for Kaman I wouldn't go crazy.

They're both slow, unathletic 7 footers who shoot with either hand and have very good footwork. Their PERs are very similar and neither is the second best player on a title team. Only thing is, is that Kaman is the third best player on his team while Bogut is the second best.
http://bkref.com/tiny/O22Ia

Look at the numbers again, in paricular the advanced statistics. Bogut actually had a better offensive efficiency due to his much lower turnover rate and also superior eFG%.

The difference in rebounds is even greater when you note that Kaman played more minutes for a faster paced team, and the difference in defense is huge.

Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Blazers (2) V Spurs (7)
« Reply #152 on: August 02, 2011, 03:19:25 PM »

Online Who

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Boozer's career stats against Amare are irrelevant because he has never faced Amare when Amare had a center of Bogut's defensive abilities alongside him.

Boozer feasted on weak Phoenix Suns and NY Knicks teams that had little to no interior defense. That is not the case with this Portland Trailblazers team.

Andrew Bogut is one of the best interior defenders in the league. It's a game changer.

I wouldn't say that Mehmet Okur was scaring Amare that much either...
Neither will Chris Kaman.

Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Jazz (3) V Nuggets (6)
« Reply #153 on: August 02, 2011, 03:20:48 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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SO please see above and please let me know what you want me to go into further detail about.

For clarification above, are you saying that when Crawford is in at "point guard' you'd have Pierce initiate the offense?

Not all the time. I don't want him bringing the ball up much but in a halfcourt setting I do like Pierce getting the ball at the top of the Key and having Jamal play off the ball. I like Kg facing up in the high post too and hitting slashers and playing pick and pop with Pierce or Jamal.

In transition I like Jamal with the ball because he puts pressure on a defense with how quickly he can pull up.


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Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Blazers (2) V Spurs (7)
« Reply #154 on: August 02, 2011, 03:20:56 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I still think Williams may not be a factor. Last year, people touted Turner and Johnson and they did little in their rookie years. Certainly not enough to tout them as X Factors.

1) Neither Wesley Johnson or Evan Turner were as efficient or as capable a scorer as Williams. Williams was the most efficient jumpshooter, the best scorer in the paint, and shot better than 50% from 3 on 2 attempts per game.

2) The role I'm projecting for Williams plays to his strengths, and not his weaknesses. He'll usually play against a SF who is not a primary scoring option, or even a secondary scoring option. He'll play primarily against backups, or in some situations against weaker starters whose defensive deficiencies allow him to flourish.

3) People said Blake Griffin's rookie class was weak. People said he was only one of a few players who had all-star potential. People said he wouldn't be as dominant as he was in college. People said similar things about Tyreke Evans. Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose. Just like Wes Johnson and Evan Turner had underwhelming rookie years, some guys really produce. Everyone agrees that if anyone is going to really produce, its going to be Derrick Williams, and many people questioned the thought process behind Cleveland's selection of Kyrie Irving at #1, as Williams was likely the more sure NBA prospect.

4) If Derrick Williams had an underwhelming NBA year next season, and these playoffs are the hypothetical result of that season next year, how did my fake Portland Trailblazers get to the second seed in the West, and win the toughest division in the fake league?

Quote
Hill is still a very good defender and how does Portland deal with Vince off the bench?

Well first, asking what someone is going to do about Vince Carter off the bench for 25 minutes or so a game in 2011 is like asking how a team is going to handle Steve Francis for 25 minutes or so off the bench in 2008. His defense has always been poor, and his offense has fallen off along with his athleticism. He shot his worst shooting % in 7 years last season, and when he was on the court last year, the Suns scored less and defended worse than when he was off it (although to be fair, that was marginal. The point was, he wasn't adding anything).

And, assuming Vince Carter's play doesn't continue to degrade from last season, I'll play one of James Harden or Carlos Delfino in him, whichever has the less 'threatening' offensive assignment and is in the game. I don't see Vince as a difference-maker at all here.

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Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Blazers (2) V Spurs (7)
« Reply #155 on: August 02, 2011, 03:21:02 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Boozer's career stats against Amare are irrelevant because he has never faced Amare when Amare had a center of Bogut's defensive abilities alongside him.

Boozer feasted on weak Phoenix Suns and NY Knicks teams that had little to no interior defense. That is not the case with this Portland Trailblazers team.

Andrew Bogut is one of the best interior defenders in the league. It's a game changer.

I wouldn't say that Mehmet Okur was scaring Amare that much either...
I think you're missing Who's point.

Boozer likely won't be able to replicate his success against Amar'e because Bogut is one of the best defensive 5s in the league.

Amar'e on the other hand faces a weak defensive front court similar to Utahs all those years if not worse.

Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Jazz (3) V Nuggets (6)
« Reply #156 on: August 02, 2011, 03:21:53 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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I also like Jamal having the ball with the shot clock winding down.


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Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Jazz (3) V Nuggets (6)
« Reply #157 on: August 02, 2011, 03:22:49 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I also like Jamal having the ball with the shot clock winding down.
Why?

Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Blazers (2) V Spurs (7)
« Reply #158 on: August 02, 2011, 03:23:50 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Boozer's career stats against Amare are irrelevant because he has never faced Amare when Amare had a center of Bogut's defensive abilities alongside him.

Boozer feasted on weak Phoenix Suns and NY Knicks teams that had little to no interior defense. That is not the case with this Portland Trailblazers team.

Andrew Bogut is one of the best interior defenders in the league. It's a game changer.

I wouldn't say that Mehmet Okur was scaring Amare that much either...
I think you're missing Who's point.

Boozer likely won't be able to replicate his success against Amar'e because Bogut is one of the best defensive 5s in the league.

Amar'e on the other hand faces a weak defensive front court similar to Utahs all those years if not worse.

Boozer scores a lot on pick and roll and jump shots. Bogut will protect the rim more but it won't stop Boozer on the pick and pop and Boozer will still get offensive put backs because Bogut can't block both Boozer and Kaman out.

I think Kaman protects the rim better then Okur.


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Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Jazz (3) V Nuggets (6)
« Reply #159 on: August 02, 2011, 03:25:07 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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I also like Jamal having the ball with the shot clock winding down.
Why?

Crawford is very good at creating a shot for himself. He can get his shot off almost anytime and that's needed when the clock is winding down and time is running out.


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Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Blazers (2) V Spurs (7)
« Reply #160 on: August 02, 2011, 03:26:34 PM »

Offline jgod213

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i like the spurs, but suprised to see just how much support they're getting in this matchup.

People aren't respecting Bogut as the strong defender that he is. The guy lead the NBA in blocks per game! Now he definitely fouls way too much, but i don't think Kaman is going to continually put Bogut's minutes in jeapordy due to drawing a bunch of whistles.  Amare is not a good man defender, but he is a good help/weak side shot blocker - he was in the top 10 in blocks/game.

Spurs do win this series IF Russell Westbrook breaks out like D-Rose did this past year.  Based upon what i saw in the playoffs, i'm not ready to put him on that level quite yet.

For me, it's the Blazers in 5/6.

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Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Blazers (2) V Spurs (7)
« Reply #161 on: August 02, 2011, 03:27:06 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Boozer's career stats against Amare are irrelevant because he has never faced Amare when Amare had a center of Bogut's defensive abilities alongside him.

Boozer feasted on weak Phoenix Suns and NY Knicks teams that had little to no interior defense. That is not the case with this Portland Trailblazers team.

Andrew Bogut is one of the best interior defenders in the league. It's a game changer.

I wouldn't say that Mehmet Okur was scaring Amare that much either...
I think you're missing Who's point.

Boozer likely won't be able to replicate his success against Amar'e because Bogut is one of the best defensive 5s in the league.

Amar'e on the other hand faces a weak defensive front court similar to Utahs all those years if not worse.

Boozer scores a lot on pick and roll and jump shots. Bogut will protect the rim more but it won't stop Boozer on the pick and pop and Boozer will still get offensive put backs because Bogut can't block both Boozer and Kaman out.
Boozer scores most of his points in the paint.

8.8 PPG compared to 5.8 PPG off of jump shots this past year. That's consistent with his time in Utah as well, 60% or more of his scoring is from his inside game. Bogut's interior defense will definitely have an effect on his offense.

Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Blazers (2) V Spurs (7)
« Reply #162 on: August 02, 2011, 03:28:35 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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I mean assuming full health do people think Bogut is a huge upgrade over Kaman? They're almost the same player to me.

Really?  Even fully healthy, I don't think that Kaman is 1/4 the defensive player that Bogut is.
Not to mention that when both are healthy Kaman isn't even that much better of an offensive player. Not by nearly a big enough margin to make up the gap on the other end of the floor.

Looking at 2009-10. The last season both were at their healthiest and also the best season either ever had career wise.

Bogut 15.9 pts, 2.5 blks, 10.1 boards, 63% free throw, 52% Field Goal
Kaman 18.5 pts, 1.2 blks, 9.2 boards, 75% free throw, 49% Field Goal

Fully healthy Bogut had the edge on the boards and protecting the rim, but Kaman was the better offensive player overall when you factor in free throws. I think in as close a series as this will be that must be factored in because you will be more hesitant to put the ball in a bad free throw shooter's hands at the end of games.

I just don't see a Huge advantage here. I would want Bogut more but if I missed on him and had to settle for Kaman I wouldn't go crazy.

They're both slow, unathletic 7 footers who shoot with either hand and have very good footwork. Their PERs are very similar and neither is the second best player on a title team. Only thing is, is that Kaman is the third best player on his team while Bogut is the second best.
http://bkref.com/tiny/O22Ia

Look at the numbers again, in paricular the advanced statistics. Bogut actually had a better offensive efficiency due to his much lower turnover rate and also superior eFG%.

The difference in rebounds is even greater when you note that Kaman played more minutes for a faster paced team, and the difference in defense is huge.

This brings up another topic. How fast is Portland playing? Amare plays fast and Bigut doesn't. Where is the in between where they both are playing to their max ability successfully? I've questioned this pairing from the beginning on this and still have never gotten an answer?


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Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Jazz (3) V Nuggets (6)
« Reply #163 on: August 02, 2011, 03:29:17 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I also like Jamal having the ball with the shot clock winding down.
Why?

Crawford is very good at creating a shot for himself. He can get his shot off almost anytime and that's needed when the clock is winding down and time is running out.
You have a more efficient option on your team one who's more willing to pass the ball too.

I'm stunned that you'd select Crawford to be your late game iso guy.

Crawford is great at taking shots, okay at making them, and terrible at most other things.

Re: 2011 CB Western 1st Round: Jazz (3) V Nuggets (6)
« Reply #164 on: August 02, 2011, 03:31:40 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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I also like Jamal having the ball with the shot clock winding down.
Why?

Crawford is very good at creating a shot for himself. He can get his shot off almost anytime and that's needed when the clock is winding down and time is running out.
You have a more efficient option on your team one who's more willing to pass the ball too.

I'm stunned that you'd select Crawford to be your late game iso guy.

Crawford is great at taking shots, okay at making them, and terrible at most other things.

Let's not put words in his mouth. He said he likes him with the clock going down, not that he'd be THE guy