2011 CB Draft Western Playoffs: 1st Round

[Kane3387]

I also need to hear from Utah and listen to the reason why he thinks Pierce and KG won't have the inconsistent, up and down post season game to game like they did this year. It seems they can bring it one game and then not the next. Is that age? is that the beginning of the end? And without a PG that gets them their shots where they want them and when they want them will that make things even worse?  How extensive is Crawford's involvement as a PG handling the ball when he is in the game because everyone knows that he looks for his shot before anyone else's?

I am not worried about Pierce and his scoring ability because he doesn't have to defend anyone in this series for the majority of the game.

Pierce scoring against NY - 18, 20, 38, 13
Against Miami - 19, 13, 27, 27, and 12

These numbers are good considering he was defending Carmelo Anthony and LBJ in these series. Dorell Wright and Mbah a Moute... I mean it's not even close.

As for KG. His main priority is defense and the rebounding on the defensive end. As we all know on offense he will spread it around. We will work out of the high post with KG a lot. His offense will be sporadic but so will Bosh's offense due to KG's defense.

As for the PG. Crawford is going to be asked to score when he is in. The guy is a scorer and to ask him otherwise would be a mistake. I think he can play well with the second unit and provide relief for KG and Pierce. To ask KG and Pierce to carry the load offensively for 48 minutes is a mistake. This is a team and everyone is capable of going off. I see this team as a much much better "real-life" Denver Nuggets team in that we have a ton of guys who can get it done on offense. Defensively we will be tough and that will feed our offense as well.

Baron Davis will create for this team as well. He is a career 7 Apg player just like Lebron is. He is not going to be asked to carry the offense and will be fine running the team. He can play a similar role to the one Billups did for Detroit as far as balancing when to shoot and pass. Davis has a high B-Ball IQ and will buy in to team much like everyone else who has played with KG and Pierce.

[Kane3387]

Jose Calderon can so defend a light post. I saw him play a game of one on one against a light post once and Calderon won 21-16.

My mistake. 

[Kane3387]

Jose Calderon had a terrible defensive season one year ago but that wasn't an accurate indicator of his ability.

He was given atrocious advice from the Raptors front office who asked him to lose weight in order to improve his lateral quickness. So Calderon followed their wishes and lost the weight. Only he didn't gain any extra lateral quickness but he did lose a lot of physical power/strength (above average for a PG). So now instead of being beaten up by quicker PGs ... he was getting beaten up by PGs of all shapes and sizes.

Calderon has since put back on the weight and gotten back to where he was in previous seasons on the defensive side of the court. Which is firmly below average, he is a poor defender, but nowhere near the worst in the league.

But you admit he is a poor defender? I mean when I watch the Raptors they are bad all around, but when your PG is constantly getting beat the rest of the guys are at a disadvantage from the get-go.

[Kwhit10]

If you also look at the last two games pierce played mbah a  mouse. They played equal minutes.  Luc our rebounded pierce shot the same %'s and was or scored 14 to 7 and 23 to 19.  If he can do that I'd be happy.

[Who]

Calderon has never been known for his defense honestly. Look at the scouting report below.

+ Smooth, ballhandling point guard. Has high dribble but never turns ball over.

+ Shoots deadly accurate push shot from shoulder. Good finisher. Money at line.

+ Horrific defensive player. Can't move laterally at all and lacks strength.

The Raptors were a historically bad defensive team last season, and Calderon was a major cause. Ever since suffering a severe hamstring tear in 2008-09, he's been a sieve on defense. According to 82games.com, opposing point guards blistered him for a 22.6 PER last season, which is quite an accomplishment: Not one point guard who played more than 50 games achieved a PER above 22. Basically Calderon turned average point guards into something slightly better than Steve Nash. Subjective observation backs this up: While he wasn't getting much help behind him, Calderon was routinely flambéd by opposing dribblers.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/hollinger/_/id/2806/jose-calderon

The guy is the worst defensive PG in the NBA.

Basically Calderon turned average point guards into something slightly better than Steve Nash.

The line above speaks for itself. 

By the way, here are those same numbers from 2010-11 that Hollinger was using from 2009-10

Opponent PER = 15.8 which is below average for a PG (around 17)

On/off Def eff = Raptors were 1 point better per 100 possessions with Calderon on the court than off.

---------------------------------------------

One simple truth = those numbers (that Hollinger shouted from a roof top) were never an accurate indicator of Calderon's defensive ability.

I said so last summer when this same argument happened and if you look at Calderon's numbers from this year you can clearly see that there was no repeat of his 2010 defensive stats.

----------------------------------------------

Jose Calderon has gotten a huge amount of defensive blame for things which aren't his fault. He plays alongside the worst team defender in the league playing big minutes (Andrea Bargnani) and for an abysmal defensive coach (Jay Triano) on a team full of guys who don't put in enough effort defensively and haven't since Sam Mitchell left.

Put Calderon on a team with a quality team defense and a lot of those complaints will go away.

Sure, he'll still be below average defensive PG but he is serviceable. You can live with his defense given how much he provides offensively.

[Kane3387]

I  think having davis and crawford as your primary ball handlers really limits the effectiveness of the other players on your team.  They are both ball dominant.  pierce and garnett have been playing with a very unselfish passer in rondo which is why their efficiency has been goods.  I expect their play to be much worse trying to share with davis and crawford beyond there decrease from age.

Johnson's productivity may I believe johnson can be the man in late game situations.  Bosh is piety accurate from his midrange shots. And with KG being pulled out that leaves jefferson in the back which I like.  KG doesn't have a perkins watching his back. Which limits his effectiveness.  He can't guard the whole court and if he tries he will be pretty tired come 4th quatre.

Haywood will be playing quite a bit as well. Joe has lost a step. It was obvious this past season. He settled a lot and really started to hand the team over to Horford more. Johnson in late game situations will disappoint. He needs to be the second guy. Bosh will also collapse. Pressure and expectations get to him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMuhKsroTOk

Again Crawford was good enough to be the best bench player in the NBA. He can play off the ball too when Pierce has it. Pierce has the ball a lot at the end of games. KG will get his shots. Rondo is very ball dominant too, but teams will have to respect both Davis and Crawford.

Again your team lacks defenders. I can put in five guys who all can beat their man one on one. In the playoffs it is a big advantage having guys who can get their own shots when a play breaks down. I have 4 guys who can do it consistently (Pierce, Davis, Butler, and Jamal) and you really only have one in Johnson. That puts a lot of pressure on him.

And he has not thrived in that role well in the playoffs. Only once has he averaged more then 18.8 points as the man in the playoffs. That was in 2007-08 when he averaged 20 ppg. Joe Johnson's game falls off in the post season. See the link below.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/1007/seasontype/3/joe-johnson

[Who]

But you admit he is a poor defender?

Of course, I have been saying Calderon is a bad defender since early in his NBA career.

But he is poor rather than pathetic -- which is what many claim due to the awful situation he has been in Toronto + the horrible advice he got from upper management + some defensive stats which clearly overstate the issue.

[StartOrien]

Bosh will also collapse. Pressure and expectations get to him.

To be fair, that's a phenomenal move Dirk puts on him in that clip

[Kane3387]

Calderon has never been known for his defense honestly. Look at the scouting report below.

+ Smooth, ballhandling point guard. Has high dribble but never turns ball over.

+ Shoots deadly accurate push shot from shoulder. Good finisher. Money at line.

+ Horrific defensive player. Can't move laterally at all and lacks strength.

The Raptors were a historically bad defensive team last season, and Calderon was a major cause. Ever since suffering a severe hamstring tear in 2008-09, he's been a sieve on defense. According to 82games.com, opposing point guards blistered him for a 22.6 PER last season, which is quite an accomplishment: Not one point guard who played more than 50 games achieved a PER above 22. Basically Calderon turned average point guards into something slightly better than Steve Nash. Subjective observation backs this up: While he wasn't getting much help behind him, Calderon was routinely flambéd by opposing dribblers.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/hollinger/_/id/2806/jose-calderon

The guy is the worst defensive PG in the NBA.

Basically Calderon turned average point guards into something slightly better than Steve Nash.

The line above speaks for itself. 

By the way, here are those same numbers from 2010-11 that Hollinger was using from 2009-10

Opponent PER = 15.8 which is below average for a PG (around 17)

On/off Def eff = Raptors were 1 point better per 100 possessions with Calderon on the court than off.

---------------------------------------------

One simple truth = those numbers (that Hollinger shouted from a roof top) were never an accurate indicator of Calderon's defensive ability.

I said so last summer when this same argument happened and if you look at Calderon's numbers from this year you can clearly see that there was no repeat of his 2010 defensive stats.

----------------------------------------------

Jose Calderon has gotten a huge amount of defensive blame for things which aren't his fault. He plays alongside the worst team defender in the league playing big minutes (Andrea Bargnani) and for an abysmal defensive coach (Jay Triano) on a team full of guys who don't put in enough effort defensively and haven't since Sam Mitchell left.

Put Calderon on a team with a quality team defense and a lot of those complaints will go away.

Sure, he'll still be below average defensive PG but he is serviceable. You can live with his defense given how much he provides offensively.

Below average will still put him at a disadvantage in this series because regardless of who he is defending he will be asked to stop a guy that can hurt him offensively.

Guarding Thabo - post up, cutting to the basket, defensive rebounding, and in transition he will be at a disadvantage

Guarding Crawford - Off the dribble and shot fakes

Guarding Baron - Off the dribble and in the post

Guarding Pierce or Butler - Not a good idea

Calderon's defense is not something to be overlooked. Offensively he won't hurt us that much if we rotate well and don't leave him open.

Besides he is terrified of KG  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvCyZB1n6lE

[Kane3387]

Bosh will also collapse. Pressure and expectations get to him.

To be fair, that's a phenomenal move Dirk puts on him in that clip

Not really.. His legs are bent much at all. It's a horrible stance and poor fundamentals. He's almost standing straight up when Dirk makes the move to go by him.

[Kane3387]

But you admit he is a poor defender?

Of course, I have been saying Calderon is a bad defender since early in his NBA career.

But he is poor rather than pathetic -- which is what many claim due to the awful situation he has been in Toronto + the horrible advice he got from upper management + some defensive stats which clearly overstate the issue.

Ok fair enough. What other criticisms can we debate now? 

Thanks for taking the time also Who. Sincerely appreciate it.

[Who]

I have never seen Thabo Sefolosha in the post. I don't think he has a post game.

I don't know, has anyone seen Thabo used as a post scorer when he has a mismatch vs a smaller player? I haven't.

In terms of matchups with Calderon -- I am fine with Calderon on Baron Davis. I wouldn't use him against Jamal Crawford. I think you are right that Calderon would struggle against Crawford's explosive scoring. So I'd use George Hill vs J.Crawford. If Thabo does not have a post game, which I suspect, then I am fine with Calderon on him also.

[StartOrien]

Bosh will also collapse. Pressure and expectations get to him.

To be fair, that's a phenomenal move Dirk puts on him in that clip

Not really.. His legs are bent much at all. It's a horrible stance and poor fundamentals.

Eh, I don't know. That quick jerk backwards right before he moves for the layup is pretty brilliant footwork.

[Kane3387]

Bosh will also collapse. Pressure and expectations get to him.

To be fair, that's a phenomenal move Dirk puts on him in that clip

Not really.. His legs are bent much at all. It's a horrible stance and poor fundamentals.

Eh, I don't know. That quick jerk backwards right before he moves for the layup is pretty brilliant footwork.

Yeah but look again. He is almost standing straight up. It's the finals with the game on the line and that's the defensive stance you provide?

[Kwhit10]

]

Bosh will also collapse. Pressure and expectations get to him.

Really? In the finals he averaged 18 & 7 while shooting the same percentage as dirk did.  He was miami's second best player.