2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings

[nickagneta]

borrrrinnnnggggg.

Didn't the commish make a statement not to expect to much from him on the weekends because, after all, he has a life?


I guess many other participants have a life as well....hence the lack of participation.

Or they are just all frightened to death of the best starting five in this draft....The Sacramento Kings

I think I beat you at 3 of my 4 starting positions. But, that all hinges on how you see Lowry, and I doubt my starting 2 guard will be on par with Matthews who I love.

You see this article?:

When Wesley Matthews collapsed to the floor during a fluke post-practice accident in January, he hobbled into the trainer's room in noticeable pain but was seemingly fine. He started at shooting guard the next night, scoring 26 points in a victory over the Phoenix Suns, and went on to play all 82 regular season games.

Turns out, however, that Matthews had suffered a torn tendon in his right ankle during that freak post-practice tumble. He played 48 games, including the playoffs, with the ailment but labored behind the scenes.

"People don't really know this, but over the last two months of the season I couldn't feel my right foot," Matthews said Monday. "It was completely numb."

That's a warrior right there.

I will respectively disagree regarding Lowry who as far as I am concerned needs to have another year to prove he isn't anything more than a one year wonder starter who is really nothing more than a role playing bench guy. You are comparing him to a world champion, Finals MVP, 5 time All Star, multiple All-NBA and All-Defense team member who still had comparable all around numbers to Lowry last year and tons more intangibles.

Don't let the love of the binkie get in the way of being objective IP.

I think we have easy wins in 3 of the 5 positions and overall better defense and rebounding and team balance.

We will let the rest wait until the playoffs. See you there.

[StartOrien]

In my opinion, Kyle Lowry is a better PG than Billups in every possible sense.

[StartOrien]

In my opinion, Kyle Lowry is a better PG than Billups in every possible sense.

To be fair, I have a lower opinion of Billups than most and a higher opinion of Kyle Lowry than most.

[indeedproceed]

I will respectively disagree regarding Lowry who as far as I am concerned needs to have another year to prove he isn't anything more than a one year wonder starter who is really nothing more than a role playing bench guy. You are comparing him to a world champion, Finals MVP, 5 time All Star, multiple All-NBA and All-Defense team member who still had comparable all around numbers to Lowry last year and tons more intangibles.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar has all those accolades as well, Nick..and they don't mean much in this case either because he's too [dang] old.

I like Billups, but Lowry has been playing better defense (one of those intangibles) for years, he's a better distributor and a more dynamic scorer, and on top of that, he's only 25. He ought to get better. Billups will only get worse from here on out.

I think he's a good fit for your team, but if I'm letting my binkie cloud my vision, I think you're buzzing off the cool-aid.

[Roy H.]

In my opinion, Kyle Lowry is a better PG than Billups in every possible sense.

Experience?  Leadership?  Shooting?  Efficiency?  Getting to the line?  Playing off the ball?

[indeedproceed]

In my opinion, Kyle Lowry is a better PG than Billups in every possible sense.

Experience?  Leadership?  Shooting?  Efficiency?  Getting to the line?  Playing off the ball?

Can't debate it: Experience, getting to the line, playing off the ball

Will debate it/not a clear winner: Shooting, efficiency, leadership

Leadership I almost put in the first catagoery, but I'm telling you Lowry made me a believer after the (diva volume scoring PG who wore an awesome draft suit) fiasco/trade. He almost single handedly hauled that Rockets team kicking and screaming into the playoffs.

EDIT: Actually nevermind. Billups is a better leader if only by virtue of his past accomplishments. I just don't think its a 'weakness' in Lowry. He's just not on Billups level there.

[Rondo2287]

In my opinion, Kyle Lowry is a better PG than Billups in every possible sense.

Experience?  Leadership?  Shooting?  Efficiency?  Getting to the line?  Playing off the ball?

Those all sound like Meaningless details to me Roy.  But in all seriousness, we love Chauncey's fit next to Lebron and the fact that he gives us a clutch performer in crunch time as well as another guy that spreads the floor for the rest of the team.

[indeedproceed]

In my opinion, Kyle Lowry is a better PG than Billups in every possible sense.

Experience?  Leadership?  Shooting?  Efficiency?  Getting to the line?  Playing off the ball?

Those all sound like Meaningless details to me Roy.  But in all seriousness, we love Chauncey's fit next to Lebron and the fact that he gives us a clutch performer in crunch time as well as another guy that spreads the floor for the rest of the team.

Billups ought to be the first choice of anyone if they're talking about 'fit' next to LeBron. He hopefully will have the same 'Mellowing' affect he did on Melo. I don't think Billups will raise LeBron's intensity necessarily, but like Tim Duncan, he will be able to rein him in and keep him focused. On top of that his skillset is a perfect fit next to LeBron. I thought you guys would have to settle for Hinrich or even (gasp) ____ _____, who I think is not only a terrible human being, but also is pretty much shot now, but the fact that you got Billups really lends further oomph to what was already a stellar staring 5.

[indeedproceed]

Anyone wanna waste their time in a divisional breakdown?

[Roy H.]

I thought you guys would have to settle for Hinrich or even (gasp) ____ _____, who I think is not only a terrible human being, but also is pretty much shot now...

He never gets much love around these parts, but I don't think  ____ _____ is shot.  He would have been a fairly good fit for the Kings, as well, although perhaps not in the voting.

[Roy H.]

Anyone wanna waste their time in a divisional breakdown?

It's not a "breakdown", but here's a very quick sketch of how I see the divisions breaking down.  This is done on incomplete information, though -- if team rosters weren't updated in the official thread, I went by memory.  In other words, if I massively underrated your team, it's your own fault.

Atlantic:

1. Boston*
2. Philly*
------------------ (gap)
3. Knicks*
4. Nets*

Central:

1. Pawnee*   
2. El Salvador*
----------------------- (gap)
3. Detroit
4. Chicago

Southeast:

1. Washington*
--------------------- (gap)
2. Orlando*
3. Miami
--------------------- (gap)
4. Atlanta

=================================================

Southwest:

1. Memphis*
2. Cleveland*
--------------- (gap)
3. San Antonio
4. Dallas

Northwest:

1. Denver*
2. Portland*
------------------ (gap)
3. OKC*
4. Utah

Pacific:

1. Sacramento*
2. Golden State*
----------------------- (gap)
3. Phoenix*
-----------------------
4. Los Angeles


I had a hard time finding eight playoff teams in the East, and I had trouble limiting myself to eight teams in the West.  I think the West is both deeper and has more contenders than the East.

[action781]

I will respectively disagree regarding Lowry who as far as I am concerned needs to have another year to prove he isn't anything more than a one year wonder starter who is really nothing more than a role playing bench guy.

Nothing has changed for me regarding the respect I have for Lowry as a starting point guard in this league.  But now that I think about it, Lowry's season is reminding me of Darren Collison and another undrafted PG who both had very underwhelming seasons in their first full seasons as starting PG.  In that sense, I think I'd have to respect if a poster wasn't sold on Lowry.  He'll probably be one of the very polarizing players in these discussions.  Because people like myself definitely think he's the real deal.

[indeedproceed]

I will respectively disagree regarding Lowry who as far as I am concerned needs to have another year to prove he isn't anything more than a one year wonder starter who is really nothing more than a role playing bench guy.

Nothing has changed for me regarding the respect I have for Lowry as a starting point guard in this league.  But now that I think about it, Lowry's season is reminding me of Darren Collison and another undrafted PG who both had very underwhelming seasons in their first full seasons as starting PG.  In that sense, I think I'd have to respect if a poster wasn't sold on Lowry.  He'll probably be one of the very polarizing players in these discussions.  Because people like myself definitely think he's the real deal.

I for the life of me can't explain what happened to Darren Collison this season. Sophomore slump indeed.

As a starter in 09-10, he was going off at almost 19 points and 9 assists per contest on a bad team. As a starter in 09-10 his shooting, passing, and leadership seemed to take a bit of a dive.

But, that whole Indiana team was kind of weird. Hibbert was very up and very down at different points. Granger seemed like he got 'Space-Jammed' at times, and the rotating crop at PF were equally as unpredictable.

I'd have to chalk it up to bad coaching and a tumultuous lockerroom, because its not like the talent wasn't there, especially in Granger and Collison's case.

But, in the case of Lowry compared to Collison, I can see how one might make that parallel, but Lowry has been turning heads for years as a backup. Him and another guy who is as you say undrafted (I wonder if its the same guy?) both seem to have the chops to be starters in this league based on their performances both as a reserve and when they've been starters.

[action781]

See you saw this as a weakness, but I see it as a strength. One thing I go for (and its honestly inspired by our own Celtics) is versatility in my 3,4,5 positions. Amar'e last year was named 2nd team All-NBA...as a center. My first (starting) lineup is big, and gets its identity from solid halfcourt sets, efficient scoring, and one of the best defensive anchors in the NBA.

My second team is fast, loose, and athletic, and gets its identity from its offensive matchups at the 4 (Williams) and the 5 (Amar'e), where my guys will be able to get up and down the court faster and stretch the defense with their shooting, opening it up for my penetrating pg and my yet unnamed but sure to be awesome perimeter players.

I don't think you have to be one or the other, I think you can be either and both, depending on which lineup is most advantageous.

I love this and was hoping that would be the direction you would go with this team.  I think you absolutely need to bring Williams off the bench to do this though.  Think logistics if Williams is starting... to go small, you need Bogut to sub out of the game.  So, when does he first sub out?  Say, with 4 min left in the 1st quarter.  OK, now you can go small... for 4 minutes?  Wait, are Amare and Williams playing the entire 1st quarter without taking a breather then?  That's going to be some tired guys playing in your "dynamic" lineup.  Then are they both sitting on the bench together to start the second quarter?  I just don't like where this is going.

I think you're jumping the gun a little bit here and making it a little too black and white. I've always seen a good substitution plan as a fluid thing, and less like a blueprint, and once I have my rotation filled out I'll be able to really show you how it'll work. I have a pretty good gameplan in my head of how I want this to play out, but I don't want to get too into it until at least the end of the 7th (afterwhile I will have shored up my 7-man rotation). Until then, I don't want to let any names or concept drop.

I wouldn't say being "fluid" is how you want substitutions to be in a perfect world.  I think players are most successful when they have specific roles and know what those roles are.  "Flexible" is something that you want to be in case of foul trouble, matchups, etc.  But I think blue prints are important.  Every good team shortens up their rotations in the playoffs and has a general substitution pattern they try to follow if obstacles like foul trouble don't get in the way.  What I laid out to you is what I think would be ideal.  Then if something comes up and you need to make adjustments, you stick with one of those lineups for longer, or sooner, etc.

But, yeah, no need to get too much into this so early.  I'll look forward to hearing more when your roster fills out.

[indeedproceed]

Northwest:

1. Denver*
2. Portland*
------------------ (gap)
3. OKC*
4. Utah

Denver has put together a heck of a team for sure, plus, they're nicely situated to have the deepest team in the league. I have no problem with this assessment.