2011 CelticsBlog Draft Board

[KCattheStripe]

BOOOOOORIIIIIIIIIING!

[celticpride07]

taking best offers for kevin love. make them good.

[Roy H.]

taking best offers for kevin love. make them good.

Carmelo Anthony?

[Gainesville Celtic]

I don't like the deal for New York.

ya I really dont like Nick Young as a core piece of any team that is serious about winning.  I picked him up off the scrap heap last year for my team, but I think for a team that wants to win he is to much of a chucker on offense and not disciplined enough defensively.

This is the one downside/blindspot of the CB Draft IMO.... unchanging views of players with bad habits. Once people don't like a player he's tainted forever. Glad Red didn't think that way about guys like DJ or Parrish (and no i'm not comparing Nick Young to either HOF'er, calm down.... )

Young is a gunner -- a chucker even -- but there was a subtle transition in his game last year (which goes along with just getting a bit older and becoming more stable/confident in your game) where he became a more effective & efficient offensive player -- which i'll cover in my press conf.

He was asked to be a main offensive weapon for Washington and he was. IMO this is the difference. He did what he was asked to do.... In the past he was asked to be a piece in the puzzle and instead tried to be a main offensive weapon -- which is how he got the rep Roy and Rondo are giving voice to here.

With Duncan, Williams, Deng and Thibs we're not worried about having an electric 6th man who can score 20 points on any given night.

[Fafnir]

There is a difference from being asked to be a main scorer and it hurting your all around game and not having any game other than scoring.

Nick Young literally doesn't rebound, doesn't assist anyone, and doesn't play d. Just has never shown the ability to do it at all.

[Who]

I think Nick Young would make a pretty solid starter alongside Timmy, Deron, Deng and T.Gibson.

Gives that unit another shot-creator / scorer.

[action781]

I don't like the deal for New York.

ya I really dont like Nick Young as a core piece of any team that is serious about winning.  I picked him up off the scrap heap last year for my team, but I think for a team that wants to win he is to much of a chucker on offense and not disciplined enough defensively.

This is the one downside/blindspot of the CB Draft IMO.... unchanging views of players with bad habits. Once people don't like a player he's tainted forever. Glad Red didn't think that way about guys like DJ or Parrish (and no i'm not comparing Nick Young to either HOF'er, calm down.... )

That's an awfully overgeneralizing statement.  I disagree very much.  Do people think the same about Zach Randolph now as they did a few years ago?  What about Dirk as being too soft?  What about Von Wafer as a defender (not great, but certainly improved)?

I think if players actually change those bad habits, posters are pretty cognizant of those changes.

[indeedproceed]

I don't like the deal for New York.

ya I really dont like Nick Young as a core piece of any team that is serious about winning.  I picked him up off the scrap heap last year for my team, but I think for a team that wants to win he is to much of a chucker on offense and not disciplined enough defensively.

This is the one downside/blindspot of the CB Draft IMO.... unchanging views of players with bad habits. Once people don't like a player he's tainted forever. Glad Red didn't think that way about guys like DJ or Parrish (and no i'm not comparing Nick Young to either HOF'er, calm down.... )

That's an awfully overgeneralizing statement.  I disagree very much.  Do people think the same about Zach Randolph now as they did a few years ago?  What about Dirk as being too soft?  What about Von Wafer as a defender (not great, but certainly improved)?

I think if players actually change those bad habits, posters are pretty cognizant of those changes.

1) If you have Dirk on your team, they're going to say he's soft. Bank on that.

2) It took 2 yrs for people to even start considering that Zach Randolph was anything but a cancer.

3) When the players do improve however, especially if it is statistically quantifiable, its generally accepted to be 80% truth, depending on the severity of the change.

[Roy H.]

I don't like the deal for New York.

ya I really dont like Nick Young as a core piece of any team that is serious about winning.  I picked him up off the scrap heap last year for my team, but I think for a team that wants to win he is to much of a chucker on offense and not disciplined enough defensively.

This is the one downside/blindspot of the CB Draft IMO.... unchanging views of players with bad habits. Once people don't like a player he's tainted forever. Glad Red didn't think that way about guys like DJ or Parrish (and no i'm not comparing Nick Young to either HOF'er, calm down.... )

That's an awfully overgeneralizing statement.  I disagree very much.  Do people think the same about Zach Randolph now as they did a few years ago?  What about Dirk as being too soft?  What about Von Wafer as a defender (not great, but certainly improved)?

I think if players actually change those bad habits, posters are pretty cognizant of those changes.

Yeah, Randolph in particular was a guy who was treated like cancer, falling to the 6th round in 2009.  Last year, he was a second rounder, and was a core piece on a final four team.  This year, he went in the first.

Rehabilitation can be done, but it takes a lot of effort on the player's part, and a good job of selling by the GM who has that player.

[indeedproceed]

Golden State Warriors:

Releasing: n/a
Adding: Nikola Pekovic

I thought super-duper hard about doing this.

REMINDER TO GM'S: YOU GET TWO FA ADDS, ONE BEFORE NOON TODAY, AND ONE BEFORE MIDNIGHT. YOU GOT 2 MINS LEFT ON THE FIRST!

[action781]

I don't like the deal for New York.

ya I really dont like Nick Young as a core piece of any team that is serious about winning.  I picked him up off the scrap heap last year for my team, but I think for a team that wants to win he is to much of a chucker on offense and not disciplined enough defensively.

This is the one downside/blindspot of the CB Draft IMO.... unchanging views of players with bad habits. Once people don't like a player he's tainted forever. Glad Red didn't think that way about guys like DJ or Parrish (and no i'm not comparing Nick Young to either HOF'er, calm down.... )

That's an awfully overgeneralizing statement.  I disagree very much.  Do people think the same about Zach Randolph now as they did a few years ago?  What about Dirk as being too soft?  What about Von Wafer as a defender (not great, but certainly improved)?

I think if players actually change those bad habits, posters are pretty cognizant of those changes.

1) If you have Dirk on your team, they're going to say he's soft. Bank on that.

2) It took 2 yrs for people to even start considering that Zach Randolph was anything but a cancer.

3) When the players do improve however, especially if it is statistically quantifiable, its generally accepted to be 80% truth, depending on the severity of the change.

1.  Yes, soft, but not TOO soft.  My friend used to argue that Dirk will NEVER be the best player on a championship team because he's too soft.  The argument over that "bad habit" of his is simply invalid now.

2.  Right, but my point still stands that he isn't "tainted forever" as a cancer.

I guess my point is that it's not us posters' fault here if we're considering a guy for his previous bad habits.  If a player has changed, I think posters are good at recognizing that.  If we posters aren't recognizing that, then the player probably hasn't completely reversed that bad habit yet.

[Gainesville Celtic]

There is a difference from being asked to be a main scorer and it hurting your all around game and not having any game other than scoring.

Nick Young literally doesn't rebound, doesn't assist anyone, and doesn't play d. Just has never shown the ability to do it at all.

We're asking Nick Young to score... and he can do that better than a lot of people in the NBA (including Dahntay Jones and Reggie Williams, the two 12th round picks I traded for him).

Duncan, Deng, Blair, and Gibson will get rebounds and we'll let Deron Williams worry about the assists.

Young's rebounding% was higher than Eric Gordon, Jason Terry, Jamal Crawford and equal to Monta Ellis.


Look,... I'm not saying Nick Young is the best SG in the world, that he'll take the 06-07 Celtics to the Finals, etc. I try not to deal in the type of hyperbole that some others might. But he's a legit 15-18 ppg scorer in the NBA and he's joining a team with a HIGH LEVEL of veteran leadership (Duncan, Deng, DWilliams, Thibs) not a baby-faced Les Bulletz.

[Gainesville Celtic]

Right, but my point still stands that he isn't "tainted forever" as a cancer.

I guess my point is that it's not us posters' fault here if we're considering a guy for his previous bad habits.  If a player has changed, I think posters are good at recognizing that.  If we posters aren't recognizing that, then the player probably hasn't completely reversed that bad habit yet.

My initial comments might have been a little too harsh, but my point was that -- esp. for non-stars like Dirk -- we (collectively and I put myself in there too) miss a lot of the smaller, subtle changes in non-Celtic players games b/c we don't see them as much.

We absolutely should consider players' past bad habits, but no players stay the same -- they change, they grow, they get better and worse.

My point was in reference to a guy like Nick Young who has changed his game soem. Are his bad habbits "fully reversed" no, but they've changed.

And the opposite happens too to be sure... Guys get by on their past *positive* reputation when maybe they've slipped some.

this is a great, fun, but ultimately subjective game. i'm cool with that (and is why i've not spent much time in the "How does my team look" thread), but can still lament parts of our collective and individual subjective takes, no 

TP's all around though... Ubuntu!

[Kane3387]

Right, but my point still stands that he isn't "tainted forever" as a cancer.

I guess my point is that it's not us posters' fault here if we're considering a guy for his previous bad habits.  If a player has changed, I think posters are good at recognizing that.  If we posters aren't recognizing that, then the player probably hasn't completely reversed that bad habit yet.

My initial comments might have been a little too harsh, but my point was that -- esp. for non-stars like Dirk -- we (collectively and I put myself in there too) miss a lot of the smaller, subtle changes in non-Celtic players games b/c we don't see them as much.

We absolutely should consider players' past bad habits, but no players stay the same -- they change, they grow, they get better and worse.

My point was in reference to a guy like Nick Young who has changed his game soem. Are his bad habbits "fully reversed" no, but they've changed.

And the opposite happens too to be sure... Guys get by on their past *positive* reputation when maybe they've slipped some.

this is a great, fun, but ultimately subjective game. i'm cool with that (and is why i've not spent much time in the "How does my team look" thread), but can still lament parts of our collective and individual subjective takes, no 

TP's all around though... Ubuntu!

Extremely well said! And I mean that! I am not saying that because we traded. TP

[Fafnir]

Disagreement with your evaluation of a player doesn't mean others "miss the subtle changes they make to their games". I just don't get what you're arguing honestly. Should people be more open to others points of view, okay?

As for the specific player, Nick Young hasn't changed much since his rookie year, he just got more playing time.

I also hate to the whole "he rebounds better than Gordon/Terry/Crawford" and same as Ellis line. Because those guys don't rebound either! But they do other things a lot better than Nick Young (which is why they were picked higher)