Could Rondo and S & T of Davis land us Westbrook?

[fadeawayswish17]

not a chance my friend , If Westbrook is no good for this team. Unless it's Deron Williams or CP3...Im all set. I would take Tony Parker off the bench 

[Surferdad]

It all depends what you want.
...
I'm not convinced that star point guards- Rose, Westbook- who score lots of points instead of rack up assists can win a championship. 

I agree and you can throw in Deron Williams and Chris Paul.  I would, however, point out that Isaiah Thomas was in the same mold and I think he won a ring.

[BballTim]

It all depends what you want.
...
I'm not convinced that star point guards- Rose, Westbook- who score lots of points instead of rack up assists can win a championship. 

I agree and you can throw in Deron Williams and Chris Paul.  I would, however, point out that Isaiah Thomas was in the same mold and I think he won a ring.

  Thomas had significantly better pg skills than Rose or Westbrook.

[CeltsAcumen]

Why would the Celts want one of the most selfish and stupid basketball players in the NBA?  I know, I know he is flashing and can score, but he so dumb with the ball.  Rondo is SO much better.  IF the Thunder want Rondo, ill give him up only for Westbrook AND Hardin. 

Westbrook is so stupid he still hasnt realized that Kevin Durant is a super star.

[dtrader]

Not interested.  Rondo's better than Westbrook.

He is??? That's news to me.

Westbrook is far more talented and lit up Rondo like a Christmas tree when the Celts and OKC played early last season.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity I looked up the career head to head numbers between Rondo and Westbrook.

The Celtics are 4 and 2 against the Thunder in those games with the Celtics averaging 97.3 PPG to the Thunders 89.2 PPG.

Rondo: 10.8 PPG, 1.2 ORPG, 3.8 RPG, 9.5 APG, 2.7 SPG, 3.0 TOPG, .653 FG%, 32/49 total FGs,
.000 3%, 0/1 total 3s, .125 FT%, 1/8 total FTs, 33.2 MPG.

Westbrook: 19.8 PPG, 1.8 ORPG, 3.5 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.3 SPG, 4.3 TOPG, .416 FG%, 42/101 Total FGs, .400 3%, 6/15 total 3s, .829 FT%, 29/35  total FTs, 33.2 MPG.

Interestingly, in only a six game sample those numbers seem to illustrate what each of these guys is as a player.  Westbrook's a player who is definitely a scorer.  He shoots a lot at a low percentage, gets to the line, and has a terrible assist to turnover ratio. Rondo, on the other hand, is not a high volume shooter or scorer, but shoots a high percentage, is a good set up guy with a good assist to turnover ratio.

Defensively, I like both players and actually think that Westbrook is behind only Rondo as a defensive and 50/50 ball playmaker among elite NBA point guards.

As you know, I prefer Rondo as a player.  I admire Westbrook's explosiveness all over the court, but Rondo's basketball intelligence, ball handling ability, creativity, and vision, coupled with his quickness and ability to get to the basketball definitely make him the hands down winner for me in a head to head comparison.  

Neither guy is a good outside shooter.  Westbrook does hit his free throws which we all know Rondo doesn't.  That's the one aspect of his game that still irks me.  Hopefully, he can improve that to at least the low to mid 70s.  If he can do that, he's the best point guard in the league for the next decade, in my opinion.    

Going into a series where they'd lay each other every game, it may be interesting to look at the head to head numbers, but to compare them as players, I think it's more imortant to look at their career numbers in general.

 That would show that Westbrook does NOT shoot at a low percentage (and that his percentage has gone u every year he's been in the league), and that he does NOT have a horrible assist/turnover ratio (he has total assists this year of 8 in 34 mins. versus Rondos 11 in 37 mins).  Plus, Westbrook might be the second best defensive guard in the league, while Rondo isn't top 5 offensively (he wouldn't be top 10 if it weren't for his passing).

I think Rondo is probably a better fit for the Celts (as theyre currently constructed), but I think a lot of Westbrooks shortcomings (Tos) are a result of the pressure he's under to make things happen in OKC.  If he was in a system with veteran leadership, surrounded by scorers like Rondo is, I think the game would come a lot easier to him.

[angryguy77]

We could put Westbrook out there with Baby and take bets on who'd pass the ball least. Like a game within a game.

[Finkelskyhook]

Who would play PG for us?  Westbrook isn't a PG

[BballTim]

Not interested.  Rondo's better than Westbrook.

He is??? That's news to me.

Westbrook is far more talented and lit up Rondo like a Christmas tree when the Celts and OKC played early last season.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity I looked up the career head to head numbers between Rondo and Westbrook.

The Celtics are 4 and 2 against the Thunder in those games with the Celtics averaging 97.3 PPG to the Thunders 89.2 PPG.

Rondo: 10.8 PPG, 1.2 ORPG, 3.8 RPG, 9.5 APG, 2.7 SPG, 3.0 TOPG, .653 FG%, 32/49 total FGs,
.000 3%, 0/1 total 3s, .125 FT%, 1/8 total FTs, 33.2 MPG.

Westbrook: 19.8 PPG, 1.8 ORPG, 3.5 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.3 SPG, 4.3 TOPG, .416 FG%, 42/101 Total FGs, .400 3%, 6/15 total 3s, .829 FT%, 29/35  total FTs, 33.2 MPG.

Interestingly, in only a six game sample those numbers seem to illustrate what each of these guys is as a player.  Westbrook's a player who is definitely a scorer.  He shoots a lot at a low percentage, gets to the line, and has a terrible assist to turnover ratio. Rondo, on the other hand, is not a high volume shooter or scorer, but shoots a high percentage, is a good set up guy with a good assist to turnover ratio.

Defensively, I like both players and actually think that Westbrook is behind only Rondo as a defensive and 50/50 ball playmaker among elite NBA point guards.

As you know, I prefer Rondo as a player.  I admire Westbrook's explosiveness all over the court, but Rondo's basketball intelligence, ball handling ability, creativity, and vision, coupled with his quickness and ability to get to the basketball definitely make him the hands down winner for me in a head to head comparison.  

Neither guy is a good outside shooter.  Westbrook does hit his free throws which we all know Rondo doesn't.  That's the one aspect of his game that still irks me.  Hopefully, he can improve that to at least the low to mid 70s.  If he can do that, he's the best point guard in the league for the next decade, in my opinion.    

Going into a series where they'd lay each other every game, it may be interesting to look at the head to head numbers, but to compare them as players, I think it's more imortant to look at their career numbers in general.

  I think a straight stat comparison between Rondo and other point guards to see who's better kind of misses the point. Rondo does a lot of things that don't show up on a stat sheet.

That would show that Westbrook does NOT shoot at a low percentage (and that his percentage has gone u every year he's been in the league), and that he does NOT have a horrible assist/turnover ratio (he has total assists this year of 8 in 34 mins. versus Rondos 11 in 37 mins).  Plus, Westbrook might be the second best defensive guard in the league, while Rondo isn't top 5 offensively (he wouldn't be top 10 if it weren't for his passing).

  Hoopdata breaks down shooting by shot location. At a cursory glance, it looks like Westbrook's career fg% is worse than Rondo's for all 4 ranges inside the three point line. Also, Rondo's career assist/turnover ratio is about 50% higher than Westbrook's.

[JT11]

We could put Westbrook out there with Baby and take bets on who'd pass the ball least. Like a game within a game.

  TP. Now if only we could get Kobe... then it'd be a real competition.

[xmuscularghandix]

Russell Westbrook sucks.

[PosImpos]

Not interested.  Rondo's better than Westbrook.

He is??? That's news to me.

Westbrook is far more talented and lit up Rondo like a Christmas tree when the Celts and OKC played early last season.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity I looked up the career head to head numbers between Rondo and Westbrook.

The Celtics are 4 and 2 against the Thunder in those games with the Celtics averaging 97.3 PPG to the Thunders 89.2 PPG.

Rondo: 10.8 PPG, 1.2 ORPG, 3.8 RPG, 9.5 APG, 2.7 SPG, 3.0 TOPG, .653 FG%, 32/49 total FGs,
.000 3%, 0/1 total 3s, .125 FT%, 1/8 total FTs, 33.2 MPG.

Westbrook: 19.8 PPG, 1.8 ORPG, 3.5 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.3 SPG, 4.3 TOPG, .416 FG%, 42/101 Total FGs, .400 3%, 6/15 total 3s, .829 FT%, 29/35  total FTs, 33.2 MPG.

Interestingly, in only a six game sample those numbers seem to illustrate what each of these guys is as a player.  Westbrook's a player who is definitely a scorer.  He shoots a lot at a low percentage, gets to the line, and has a terrible assist to turnover ratio. Rondo, on the other hand, is not a high volume shooter or scorer, but shoots a high percentage, is a good set up guy with a good assist to turnover ratio.

Defensively, I like both players and actually think that Westbrook is behind only Rondo as a defensive and 50/50 ball playmaker among elite NBA point guards.

As you know, I prefer Rondo as a player.  I admire Westbrook's explosiveness all over the court, but Rondo's basketball intelligence, ball handling ability, creativity, and vision, coupled with his quickness and ability to get to the basketball definitely make him the hands down winner for me in a head to head comparison. 

Neither guy is a good outside shooter.  Westbrook does hit his free throws which we all know Rondo doesn't.  That's the one aspect of his game that still irks me.  Hopefully, he can improve that to at least the low to mid 70s.  If he can do that, he's the best point guard in the league for the next decade, in my opinion.   

Going into a series where they'd lay each other every game, it may be interesting to look at the head to head numbers, but to compare them as players, I think it's more imortant to look at their career numbers in general.

  I think a straight stat comparison between Rondo and other point guards to see who's better kind of misses the point. Rondo does a lot of things that don't show up on a stat sheet.

That would show that Westbrook does NOT shoot at a low percentage (and that his percentage has gone u every year he's been in the league), and that he does NOT have a horrible assist/turnover ratio (he has total assists this year of 8 in 34 mins. versus Rondos 11 in 37 mins).  Plus, Westbrook might be the second best defensive guard in the league, while Rondo isn't top 5 offensively (he wouldn't be top 10 if it weren't for his passing).

  Hoopdata breaks down shooting by shot location. At a cursory glance, it looks like Westbrook's career fg% is worse than Rondo's for all 4 ranges inside the three point line. Also, Rondo's career assist/turnover ratio is about 50% higher than Westbrook's.

Westbrook is not a better PG than Rondo right now; however, he is a better overall player right now.  I think you could effectively argue that he will thus be a better point guard in the future than Rondo, too, assuming Rondo has more or less reached his ceiling (I think he probably has).

[BballTim]

Westbrook is not a better PG than Rondo right now; however, he is a better overall player right now.  I think you could effectively argue that he will thus be a better point guard in the future than Rondo, too, assuming Rondo has more or less reached his ceiling (I think he probably has).

  I think both players are approaching their ceilings somewhat. However, if you consider Rondo's ceiling to be how he plays in the playoffs or how he was playing this season before the injuries kicked in I'd argue that his ceiling is well above anything we've seen from Westbrook. I also think Rondo does a lot more to help a team win than Russell. That would be my criteria for who's the better overall player, not necessarily the guy who puts up more points.

[greenpride32]

First of all this isn't meant as a shot to Rondo; it's pretty clear what he brings to the table.  But the C's need scoring right now.  If Rondo is so good at setting players up and making them better, then why was our offense so stagnant with him running the show?  Rondo gets way to much credit for racking up all those early season assists passing to 4 guys who have all scored over 20K points in their careers.  The very large majority of his assists are due to the player making the shot, and just a very small amount are the ones where he essentially got the basket with an amazing play (this is true of every PG not just Rondo).

Rondo needs to take it to the hole on a consistent basis, not just every 5th game.  He also needs to be more aggressive in finishing; and not look to dish after he just beat 2 defenders and is all alone under the basket; that does nothing but hurt our team.

[Celtics18]

Not interested.  Rondo's better than Westbrook.

He is??? That's news to me.

Westbrook is far more talented and lit up Rondo like a Christmas tree when the Celts and OKC played early last season.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity I looked up the career head to head numbers between Rondo and Westbrook.

The Celtics are 4 and 2 against the Thunder in those games with the Celtics averaging 97.3 PPG to the Thunders 89.2 PPG.

Rondo: 10.8 PPG, 1.2 ORPG, 3.8 RPG, 9.5 APG, 2.7 SPG, 3.0 TOPG, .653 FG%, 32/49 total FGs,
.000 3%, 0/1 total 3s, .125 FT%, 1/8 total FTs, 33.2 MPG.

Westbrook: 19.8 PPG, 1.8 ORPG, 3.5 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.3 SPG, 4.3 TOPG, .416 FG%, 42/101 Total FGs, .400 3%, 6/15 total 3s, .829 FT%, 29/35  total FTs, 33.2 MPG.

Interestingly, in only a six game sample those numbers seem to illustrate what each of these guys is as a player.  Westbrook's a player who is definitely a scorer.  He shoots a lot at a low percentage, gets to the line, and has a terrible assist to turnover ratio. Rondo, on the other hand, is not a high volume shooter or scorer, but shoots a high percentage, is a good set up guy with a good assist to turnover ratio.

Defensively, I like both players and actually think that Westbrook is behind only Rondo as a defensive and 50/50 ball playmaker among elite NBA point guards.

As you know, I prefer Rondo as a player.  I admire Westbrook's explosiveness all over the court, but Rondo's basketball intelligence, ball handling ability, creativity, and vision, coupled with his quickness and ability to get to the basketball definitely make him the hands down winner for me in a head to head comparison.  

Neither guy is a good outside shooter.  Westbrook does hit his free throws which we all know Rondo doesn't.  That's the one aspect of his game that still irks me.  Hopefully, he can improve that to at least the low to mid 70s.  If he can do that, he's the best point guard in the league for the next decade, in my opinion.    

Going into a series where they'd lay each other every game, it may be interesting to look at the head to head numbers, but to compare them as players, I think it's more imortant to look at their career numbers in general.

 That would show that Westbrook does NOT shoot at a low percentage (and that his percentage has gone u every year he's been in the league), and that he does NOT have a horrible assist/turnover ratio (he has total assists this year of 8 in 34 mins. versus Rondos 11 in 37 mins).  Plus, Westbrook might be the second best defensive guard in the league, while Rondo isn't top 5 offensively (he wouldn't be top 10 if it weren't for his passing).

I think Rondo is probably a better fit for the Celts (as theyre currently constructed), but I think a lot of Westbrooks shortcomings (Tos) are a result of the pressure he's under to make things happen in OKC.  If he was in a system with veteran leadership, surrounded by scorers like Rondo is, I think the game would come a lot easier to him.

I only looked up their head to head numbers in response to the original posters claim that Westbrook is a better player based on one game that he watched.

I figured the least I could do in response was to look at how they've done against each other in the careers.  But, I agree that a total of six games doesn't prove much either way. 

[nickagneta]

The very large majority of his assists are due to the player making the shot

I would contend that EVERY SINGLE ASSIST EVER was a result of a player making a shot other than the player getting the assist.

But you have to give more credit to Rondo than that. I mean Dennis Johnson played with Ainge, Bird, McHale, Parish and Walton yet never had 11 assists per game. Cousy played with Sharman, Heinsohn, Russell Jones and Sharman and never racked up 11 assists per game.

Invariably you have to be able to see or envision the pass, make the pass accurately and make it so that it makes your team mates job of scoring easier. Rondo is exceptional at that and saying he gets 11 assists because he played with four great players isn't giving him nearly the credit he deserves as a floor general, pass first PG.