2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[Roy H.]

One clarification:  what year's rules are the teams playing under? 

Was that ever established?

That's a whole new can of worms to open now.

Yeah, but I think we need some uniformity when evaluating teams. 

Can you really establish it now, though?  The draft's already started.

Its something that could've influenced drafting in the first round.

So, what's the better alternative?

Option A:  Everybody finds out after the first round what rules will be in place, and adjust accordingly; or

Option B:  Nobody ever finds out what the rules are going to be, constructing teams as they like.  Then, an evaluator arbitrarily tells them that their team's strength don't fit under the evaluator's chosen rules?

I think it's hard for people to construct teams and have them judged by a three person panel, when those people don't have any idea what the criteria will be.

[indeedproceed]

Think I might go with this season....from my point guard:

PPG: 22.5
APG: 12.8
RPG: 7.9
STPG: 1.8
FG%: 50.9%
3PT%: 31.4%
FT%: 91.1%
NBA MVP

Though depending on who I fill the roster out with maybe a young Magic with 18.6P/9.5A/9.5R/2.7S/54%FG would work although there is the '87 version that was just dominant in winning it all at 23.9/12.2/6.3/1.7/52% MVP, Finals MVP. Although I'm liking the older wiser MVP Magic best at this time.

To me, it's 1987 Magic all the way. 

I'm having a similar quandry ... individually, I think 1987 was MJ's best year, but he was arguably a bit more team oriented in '88 ... and then there's ....

 ... man, in many cases picking the years is going to be more difficult than the picks themselves!

Pick a year he rocked the holy grail: MVP, Finals MVP, All-NBA First team, All-NBA Defensive Team

Or, pick the year he made the league his pretty little lady and go 1996. If he's gonna be your leader, your catalyst, you gotta go 1996.

[Donoghus]

Man, Jordan is tough as heck to pick a year for.

[Roy H.]

Think I might go with this season....from my point guard:

PPG: 22.5
APG: 12.8
RPG: 7.9
STPG: 1.8
FG%: 50.9%
3PT%: 31.4%
FT%: 91.1%
NBA MVP

Though depending on who I fill the roster out with maybe a young Magic with 18.6P/9.5A/9.5R/2.7S/54%FG would work although there is the '87 version that was just dominant in winning it all at 23.9/12.2/6.3/1.7/52% MVP, Finals MVP. Although I'm liking the older wiser MVP Magic best at this time.

To me, it's 1987 Magic all the way. 

I'm having a similar quandry ... individually, I think 1987 was MJ's best year, but he was arguably a bit more team oriented in '88 ... and then there's ....

 ... man, in many cases picking the years is going to be more difficult than the picks themselves!

Pick a year he rocked the holy grail: MVP, Finals MVP, All-NBA First team, All-NBA Defensive Team

Or, pick the year he made the league his pretty little lady and go 1996. If he's gonna be your leader, your catalyst, you gotta go 1996.

Yeah, with Jordan, I think you have to pick a year he won a title.  I'd probably go '93, personally, even though he missed out on the MVP that year.

[Who]

I'd go for one of the early 1990's title years for MJ. Partial to that first Championship season.

• Wilt Chamberlain -- I'd go with 1967. The man himself said that he was selfish early in his career and that he wouldn't have been able to match Russell's winning if he was on those Celtics team instead of Bill. Appearently, 1967 was his best team orientated year while retaining the best of his athleticism (versus Lakers years late in his career).
• Tim Duncan -- 2003, I thought this was his best all-round year. The way he led (poor by Championship standards) Spurs team to an NBA title. How he controlled the game by dominating defensively and on the backboards. The low post scoring. The passing. The leadership. Showing those youngsters the way. Put the team on his back and carried them to a title.
• LeBron James -- any of the most recent three seasons. I thought he became a bit more a jump shooter this year versus his previous two years with the Cavs where he was more inclined to drive like a mad man to the rim. Took more physical punishment those years. This year, played more of veteran's game. Protected his body.
• Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- his best years where largely in Milwaukee (except for his final season there where he was poor by his standards). I'd take one of those early Bucks seasons, probably 1971 or 1972.
• Larry Bird -- any season between 1983 and 1986
• Hakeem Olajuwon -- 1994 -- DPOY, MVP, Finals MVP -- led a mediocre Rockets team to an NBA Title.
• Oscar Robertson -- averaged a triple double over his first five seasons, any of those years. Rebounded like a mad man.
• Magic Johnson -- there are quite a few seasons you could select from. 1982, 87-91. I am thinking 1989 but there a bunch there one could select happily.
• Bill Russell -- no idea, looks to be very consistent throughout his career. Statistically, those years in 1964 and 1965 look his best.
• Kobe Bryant -- pre-MVP days when he was still a top tier athlete -- Not sure which season I'd select. Probably one of those final two title winning years alongside Shaq. Kobe was fairly amazing in that second title run. When he dismantled the Kings on their homecourt in games 3 + 4 to sweep Sacramento. Then destroyed Bruce Bowen and the Spurs in the conference Finals (another sweep) and had a good showing in the Finals too. Although, the two years without Shaq or Pau Gasol would be fine also. I am going to go with 2001 as my first choice.

[Redz]

I haven't checked the stats but I think I'd have to with Bird circa 1985-1986 season just on principle.

[indeedproceed]

I haven't checked the stats but I think I'd have to with Bird circa 1985-1986 season just on principle.

True.

[StartOrien]

In looking up stats, a shocking reminder:

in 05-06 Kobe averaged 6.5 3 point attempts per game

[nickagneta]

First, if we can PLEASE stop comparing players to players not yet be drafted to PUMP UP our current players that would make me extremely happy.

Second, picking a set of rules on defense to play under is not going to happen same as I am not going to decide if the teams are going to play with or without a three point line, with two refs or three, or any other rules changes that have occurred since 1959. It is impossible to say how a player from one era might have changed his game to account for the rules and trends of a different era and hence change his efficacy as a whole.

If a 70's superstar knew he could get three points for a 22 foot shot and whistles to go to the line every time he was breathed upon while going to the basket because he was a superstar and knew the refs would never foul him out of a game would he cater his game to those things? If a current superstar knew he was going to be called for traveling every time he actually traveled, knew he couldn't take supplemental ingredients in his diet to get stronger and bigger because they weren't available to him and knew he no longer could play a zone defense, would he change his game to the rules or be handicapped by them?

Its impossible to create a set of game rules because those rules will inevitably favor the players that played in the era of those rules so those judging will need to just use their knowledge and imagination to judge as best they can. Sorry.

[Donoghus]

First, if we can PLEASE stop comparing players to players not yet be drafted to PUMP UP our current players that would make me extremely happy.

Second, picking a set of rules on defense to play under is not going to happen same as I am not going to decide if the teams are going to play with or without a three point line, with two refs or three, or any other rules changes that have occurred since 1959. It is impossible to say how a player from one era might have changed his game to account for the rules and trends of a different era and hence change his efficacy as a whole.

If a 70's superstar knew he could get three points for a 22 foot shot and whistles to go to the line every time he was breathed upon while going to the basket because he was a superstar and knew the refs would never foul him out of a game would he cater his game to those things? If a current superstar knew he was going to be called for traveling every time he actually traveled, knew he couldn't take supplemental ingredients in his diet to get stronger and bigger because they weren't available to him and knew he no longer could play a zone defense, would he change his game to the rules or be handicapped by them?

Its impossible to create a set of game rules because those rules will inevitably favor the players that played in the era of those rules so those judging will need to just use their knowledge and imagination to judge as best they can. Sorry.

Sounds fair to me.

[RebusRankin]

Interesting enough, Who nailed the year I was thinking for Wilt. 67. 24PPG, 8APG, 24RPG, great D, team orientated approach. Still dominate but playing winning ball.

[33-00-32]

• Tim Duncan -- 2003, I thought this was his best all-round year. The way he led (poor by Championship standards) Spurs team to an NBA title. How he controlled the game by dominating defensively and on the backboards. The low post scoring. The passing. The leadership. Showing those youngsters the way. Put the team on his back and carried them to a title

Exactly the year I was thinking Who, regular season MVP, Championship MVP, all defensive 1st team. As always I appreciate your knowledge. I think Timmy had better stats the year before but his best year was when he led them to that title.
I'm curious why Edgar is so down on Timmy? Did his draft break your heart? He has been on the All Defense (1st or 2nd, mostly 1st) and All NBA (1st or 2nd, mostly 1st) teams his whole career. He is the one active player who could have played, and put up his numbers, and helped his team more than any other active player, except maybe Shaq in his prime, during any other era. His athleticism and skills transcend time. His numbers will stay the same and come within the flow of the game.
I can't wait for tomorrow (pick 2.2) to team him up with another stud

[mgent]

One clarification:  what year's rules are the teams playing under? 

Was that ever established?

That's a whole new can of worms to open now.

Yeah, but I think we need some uniformity when evaluating teams. 

Can you really establish it now, though?  The draft's already started.

Its something that could've influenced drafting in the first round.

Shaq couldn't have really gone any higher even if we were playing with early era contact.  I think that would be the most fun if we just added a 3pt line (or just say 80s) as a lot of tough players would be a little wasted if you imagined them in today's NBA (a lot of Pistons).

[GreenFaith1819]

Interesting enough, Who nailed the year I was thinking for Wilt. 67. 24PPG, 8APG, 24RPG, great D, team orientated approach. Still dominate but playing winning ball.

That....is a mind-blowing stat line. Just wow.

I saw some footage on Wilt from back in the day, and he just towered over players...many of these guys were regular-sized NBA players, too - by today's standards.

The Big Dipper.

[33-00-32]

One clarification:  what year's rules are the teams playing under? 

Was that ever established?

That's a whole new can of worms to open now.

Yeah, but I think we need some uniformity when evaluating teams. 

Can you really establish it now, though?  The draft's already started.

Its something that could've influenced drafting in the first round.

Shaq couldn't have really gone any higher even if we were playing with early era contact.  I think that would be the most fun if we just added a 3pt line (or just say 80s) as a lot of tough players would be a little wasted if you imagined them in today's NBA (a lot of Pistons).

I know it will be difficult to evaluate a group of Hall of Famer's from the past 51 years! My knowledge doesn't cover all of them in detail but I'm pretty comfortable with them. We're only in round 1 and I'm already thinking about what playing in a different time would have meant to my possible picks. No doubts that is the hardest part of compiling a list and exactly why there will be so much debate throughout. The good thing for all of us is it appears we have an evaluation team that is second to none!!