2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[Roy H.]

And that is the unfortunate (and not true) label being forced on my team.

Maybe it's believable to some coming from a Mod, but as I have presented the facts we have adequate remedies in Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones to remedy our outside shooting

You don't get to play with seven players on the court at once, though.

The lineup people are critiquing is Kareem/JO/KG/Dumars/Payton.  When those five guys are on the court together (or, insert Ben Wallace for JO or Kareem), your team becomes much easier to defend.

As for Cooper, he was a decent outside shooter, but I don't think he's a reliable enough offensive player to hang your hat on.  Eddie Jones was a good shooter, though.

As an aside, trying to discount my argument or suggest that people buy into it only because I'm a mod is pretty insulting.  I think the reason people may buy into it is because a lineup of Kareem/JO/Kareem/Dumars/Payton only has one prolific three point shooter, and he shot 32.8% on a moved-in line.

[StartOrien]

but as I have presented the facts we have adequate remedies in Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones to remedy our outside shooting.

Then, if you're that concerned about the argument, make THAT your argument

I've done that already, Man.

Then stay with it, don't present a lineup that directly counters what you're trying to accomplish.

[indeedproceed]

Maybe it's believable to some coming from a Mod, but as I have presented the facts we have adequate remedies in Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones to remedy our outside shooting.

Okay, if that's the case, than how man minutes do you see Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones combining for? I went thought your old posts looking for a minutes breakdown by position, but I didn't find one (apologies if I missed it).

But how do you see it breaking down?

PG: Payton (?), Rondo (?)
SG: Dumars (?), Spreewell (?), Jones (?), Cooper(?)
SF: Worthy (?), Cooper (?), Garnett (?), Jones (?)
PF: KG (?), Wallace (?), Brand (?), Sampson (?)
C: KAJ (?), Wallace (?), O'Neal (?), Sampson (?)

[Roy H.]

I don't think LA's starting lineup's poor perimeter jump-shooting is that rare.

There are a couple of teams with limited to below average three point shooting in their starting unit.

Denver springs to mind, but Denver is a run-and-gun team that will try to out-break teams.  Also, I think Oscar would shoot better than 32.8% from outside.

LA is another example.  Based upon raw numbers, they lack in great outside shooters (when Durant isn't starting), but Jerry West was one of the best shooters of all-time.  I'm sure he'd have the three pointer in his repertoire. 

[StartOrien]

In a good way - the idea of Sprewell and Payton playing together just made me chuckle.

[GreenFaith1819]

I don't think LA's starting lineup's poor perimeter jump-shooting is that rare.

There are a couple of teams with limited to below average three point shooting in their starting unit.

Denver springs to mind, but Denver is a run-and-gun team that will try to out-break teams.  Also, I think Oscar would shoot better than 32.8% from outside.

LA is another example.  Based upon raw numbers, they lack in great outside shooters (when Durant isn't starting), but Jerry West was one of the best shooters of all-time.  I'm sure he'd have the three pointer in his repertoire. 

See Roy ...You've got LA on your mind.

You meant to say CHI (with Durant).

[GreenFaith1819]

In a good way - the idea of Sprewell and Payton playing together just made me chuckle.

Well at least our locker rooms would be safe

But - maybe not our coaches..........

[Who]

The three perimeter players in each team's starting lineups (sorry if I got anyone's starting perimeter unit wrong)

Philadelphia 76ers - Kevin Johnson, Michael Jordan and Dominique Wilkins (plus Dirk)
Portland Trailblazers - Nate Archibald, Sidney Moncrief and Larry Bird
Dallas Mavericks - Deron Williams, Manu Ginobili and Elgin Baylor

Indiana Pacers - Steve Nash, Dwyane Wade and Shawn Marion
Atlanta Hawks - John Stockton, Kobe Bryant and Chris Mullin
Miami Heat - Isiah Thomas, Mitch Richmond and Rick Barry

Seattle Supersonics - Jason Kidd, Reggie Lewis and Scottie Pippen
Chicago Bulls - Magic Johnson, Jerry West and Kevin Durant
Los Angeles Lakers - Gary Payton, Joe Dumars and James Worthy

Denver Nuggets - Oscar Robertson, Clyde Drexler and Julius Erving
Boston Celtics - Walt Frazier, Vince Carter and John Havlicek
Memphis Grizzlies - Chris Paul, Paul Pierce and LeBron James

[Roy H.]

I don't think LA's starting lineup's poor perimeter jump-shooting is that rare.

There are a couple of teams with limited to below average three point shooting in their starting unit.

Denver springs to mind, but Denver is a run-and-gun team that will try to out-break teams.  Also, I think Oscar would shoot better than 32.8% from outside.

LA is another example.  Based upon raw numbers, they lack in great outside shooters (when Durant isn't starting), but Jerry West was one of the best shooters of all-time.  I'm sure he'd have the three pointer in his repertoire. 

See Roy ...You've got LA on your mind.

You meant to say CHI (with Durant).

Sorry, it's the Magic / West combo.  Dang Lakers.

[nickagneta]

If people would like to start critiquing the Bulls to give poor Greenfaith a break here, I'm okay with that. Blast away!!!

[GreenFaith1819]

Maybe it's believable to some coming from a Mod, but as I have presented the facts we have adequate remedies in Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones to remedy our outside shooting.

Okay, if that's the case, than how man minutes do you see Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones combining for? I went thought your old posts looking for a minutes breakdown by position, but I didn't find one (apologies if I missed it).

But how do you see it breaking down?

PG: Payton (36), Rondo (12)
SG: Dumars (30), Spreewell (4), Jones (14), Cooper(?)
SF: Worthy (30), Cooper (12), Garnett (6), Jones (?)
PF: KG (32), Wallace (10), Brand (?), Sampson (6)
C: KAJ (36), Wallace (4) O'Neal ( Sampson (?)

IP - I just filled out a rough estimate for you for the numbers.

Again - some numbers to fluctuate as needed.

Not sure why the smiley face is there with Sampson..trying to edit it out, but it's still there.

[nickagneta]

I don't think LA's starting lineup's poor perimeter jump-shooting is that rare.

There are a couple of teams with limited to below average three point shooting in their starting unit.

Denver springs to mind, but Denver is a run-and-gun team that will try to out-break teams.  Also, I think Oscar would shoot better than 32.8% from outside.

LA is another example.  Based upon raw numbers, they lack in great outside shooters (when Durant isn't starting), but Jerry West was one of the best shooters of all-time.  I'm sure he'd have the three pointer in his repertoire. 

See Roy ...You've got LA on your mind.

You meant to say CHI (with Durant).

Sorry, it's the Magic / West combo.  Dang Lakers.

Don't forget Pat Riley and Pau Gasol.

[GreenFaith1819]

And Roy - I apologize if I insulted you (or StartOrien or anyone else here).

But LA's issue with shooting is just not as bad as I believe is protrayed here in this draft.

I never stated that we were the best - but I believe our strong points and adequate outside shooting can cover up the weak areas.

I think from last year to this year I actually drafted better in regards to outside shooting.

Remember - all of those blocked shots and deflections and steals will lead to more opportunities for us.

[Who]

And that is the unfortunate (and not true) label being forced on my team.

Maybe it's believable to some coming from a Mod, but as I have presented the facts we have adequate remedies in Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones to remedy our outside shooting

You don't get to play with seven players on the court at once, though.

The lineup people are critiquing is Kareem/JO/KG/Dumars/Payton.  When those five guys are on the court together (or, insert Ben Wallace for JO or Kareem), your team becomes much easier to defend.

As for Cooper, he was a decent outside shooter, but I don't think he's a reliable enough offensive player to hang your hat on.  Eddie Jones was a good shooter, though.

As an aside, trying to discount my argument or suggest that people buy into it only because I'm a mod is pretty insulting.  I think the reason people may buy into it is because a lineup of Kareem/JO/Kareem/Dumars/Payton only has one prolific three point shooter, and he shot 32.8% on a moved-in line.

James Worthy made a total of 3 three pointers in his first six years combined, up to and including the year selected. That is about 500 games or 15,000 minutes. 

I don't think there is any downfall from Worthy to Garnett (SF).

There is a decline at PF from Garnett to JO. I would choose Ralph Sampson as my first choice PF in that lineup because of his superior jump shooting and I think that is fairly close to KG's ability as a jump shooter. They also have Elton Brand who is somewhere in between JO and KG as a jump shooter.

-----------------------------------

I think if criticizing the jump-shooting capabilities, one should concentrate on the starting lineup because that is the lineup that is going to be playing the largest bulk of time on the court. Not a situational bigger lineup.

Especially when the jump shooting ability is not too dissimilar in the first place.

It's not like KG was replacing a capable perimeter jump shooter in James Worthy.

[Rondo2287]

Maybe it's believable to some coming from a Mod, but as I have presented the facts we have adequate remedies in Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones to remedy our outside shooting.

Okay, if that's the case, than how man minutes do you see Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones combining for? I went thought your old posts looking for a minutes breakdown by position, but I didn't find one (apologies if I missed it).

But how do you see it breaking down?

PG: Payton (36), Rondo (12)
SG: Dumars (30), Spreewell (4), Jones (14), Cooper(?)
SF: Worthy (30), Cooper (12), Garnett (6), Jones (?)
PF: KG (32), Wallace (10), Brand (?), Sampson (6)
C: KAJ (36), Wallace (4) O'Neal ( Sampson (?)

IP - I just filled out a rough estimate for you for the numbers.

Again - some numbers to fluctuate as needed.

Not sure why the smiley face is there with Sampson..trying to edit it out, but it's still there.

Im surprised by the ammount of minutes for eddie jones