2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[nickagneta]

Maybe it's believable to some coming from a Mod, but as I have presented the facts we have adequate remedies in Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones to remedy our outside shooting.

Okay, if that's the case, than how man minutes do you see Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones combining for? I went thought your old posts looking for a minutes breakdown by position, but I didn't find one (apologies if I missed it).

But how do you see it breaking down?

PG: Payton (36), Rondo (12)
SG: Dumars (30), Spreewell (4), Jones (14), Cooper(?)
SF: Worthy (30), Cooper (12), Garnett (6), Jones (?)
PF: KG (32), Wallace (10), Brand (?), Sampson (6)
C: KAJ (36), Wallace (4) O'Neal ( Sampson (?)

IP - I just filled out a rough estimate for you for the numbers.

Again - some numbers to fluctuate as needed.

Not sure why the smiley face is there with Sampson..trying to edit it out, but it's still there.

GF you know your the man in my eyes, right?

So, and remember I am just keeping it real here, if what people are critiquing about your team is having a lack of three point shooting and the strategy of using three big men at the same time up front without any three pointers in the lineup, and you come back with

"Don't forget we have Eddie Jones and Michael Cooper"

Then why should people remember that if you don't have them as having ANY minutes in your minutes breakdown?

Personally, I think a young KG could guard anyone but perhaps you would be better served keeping him at PF and utilizing an rotation of Kareem, KG, Cooper, Eddie Jones and Payton. 4 unbelievable defenders, 2 great three point shooters and KG to spread the floor and keep double teams off Kareem and lots of space to allow Payton to do what he does.

I think that a way better limited minutes rotation than your big man idea. Also, don't forget what Larry Bird said about Michael Cooper. He thought he was the best defensive player he ever player against. Having him at the three isn't so bad.

EDIT: Sorry GF I just saw the ? on the ends of the minutes breakdown for Cooper and Jones and didn't see their names further in. My bad.

[Who]

The three perimeter players in each team's starting lineups (sorry if I got anyone's starting perimeter unit wrong)

Philadelphia 76ers - Kevin Johnson, Michael Jordan and Dominique Wilkins (plus Dirk)
Portland Trailblazers - Nate Archibald, Sidney Moncrief and Larry Bird
Dallas Mavericks - Deron Williams, Manu Ginobili and Elgin Baylor

Indiana Pacers - Steve Nash, Dwyane Wade and Shawn Marion
Atlanta Hawks - John Stockton, Kobe Bryant and Chris Mullin
Miami Heat - Isiah Thomas, Mitch Richmond and Rick Barry

Seattle Supersonics - Jason Kidd, Reggie Lewis and Scottie Pippen
Chicago Bulls - Magic Johnson, Jerry West and Kevin Durant
Los Angeles Lakers - Gary Payton, Joe Dumars and James Worthy

Denver Nuggets - Oscar Robertson, Clyde Drexler and Julius Erving
Boston Celtics - Walt Frazier, Vince Carter and John Havlicek
Memphis Grizzlies - Chris Paul, Paul Pierce and LeBron James

In terms of Three Point Shooters

Phily - two mediocre shooters, one non-shooter + Dirk who is an above average shooter with low attempts
Portland - two non-shooters, one above average shooter with low attempts
Dallas - two strong shooters in the backcourt

Indiana - one elite shooter, two mediocre to below average shooters
Atlanta - two elite shooters and an above average shooter
Miami - two above average shooters and a below average shooter

Seattle - one non-shooter, two mediocre shooters
Chicago - one elite shooter, one non-shooter and a rotating SF crop that goes from above average to non-shooters
Los Angeles - Two mediocre shooters, one non-shooter

Denver - one mediocre shooter, two non-shooters
Boston - one above average shooter, two non-shooters
Memphis - Two above average shooters, one mediocre shooter

[mgent]

The three perimeter players in each team's starting lineups (sorry if I got anyone's starting perimeter unit wrong)

Philadelphia 76ers - Kevin Johnson, Michael Jordan and Dominique Wilkins (plus Dirk)
Portland Trailblazers - Nate Archibald, Sidney Moncrief and Larry Bird
Dallas Mavericks - Deron Williams, Manu Ginobili and Elgin Baylor

Indiana Pacers - Steve Nash, Dwyane Wade and Shawn Marion
Atlanta Hawks - John Stockton, Kobe Bryant and Chris Mullin
Miami Heat - Isiah Thomas, Mitch Richmond and Rick Barry

Seattle Supersonics - Jason Kidd, Reggie Lewis and Scottie Pippen
Chicago Bulls - Magic Johnson, Jerry West and Kevin Durant
Los Angeles Lakers - Gary Payton, Joe Dumars and James Worthy

Denver Nuggets - Oscar Robertson, Clyde Drexler and Julius Erving
Boston Celtics - Walt Frazier, Vince Carter and John Havlicek
Memphis Grizzlies - Chris Paul, Paul Pierce and LeBron James

Weren't you guys talking about a lineup with KG at SF?

I think prime KG could absolutely guard most SFs, although I'd never put him on a quick one like LeBron unless he was seriously the best option.  SG?  Sure he could, but that's even less ideal.  IP, I think it was you that said Larry could play any position if he wanted.  What makes you think Larry could guard any position but KG couldn't?  In my opinion KG would have no problem guarding a SF for limited minutes (like Magic playing center).

However, the spacing would be a much bigger issue.  I don't see how bringing up Clyde Drexler defends that point.  At least he could shoot 3s, how many has KG even attempted?  I also think stating he wasn't a good outside shooter "at all" isn't very accurate as he actually became he a decent 3pt shooter later on in his career (although I have no clue what years I chose).  And I agree with Roy that Oscar (who was a great outside shooter) would have hit 3s at LEAST at a better clip than Payton as well.

Bottom line is if you want to sport a lineup with 3 bigs, you've better got 2 sharpshooters in the backcourt, and at least 1 big that can stretch the floor behind the arc.  Not only do you have none of those, but I wouldn't consider the guys you do have to be even good 3pt shooters (the year you picked Dumars).

[Who]

Weren't you guys talking about a lineup with KG at SF?

Just as a situational lineup. Bulk of his minutes at PF and starts at PF.

[GreenFaith1819]

Maybe it's believable to some coming from a Mod, but as I have presented the facts we have adequate remedies in Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones to remedy our outside shooting.

Okay, if that's the case, than how man minutes do you see Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones combining for? I went thought your old posts looking for a minutes breakdown by position, but I didn't find one (apologies if I missed it).

But how do you see it breaking down?

PG: Payton (36), Rondo (12)
SG: Dumars (30), Spreewell (4), Jones (14), Cooper(?)
SF: Worthy (30), Cooper (12), Garnett (6), Jones (?)
PF: KG (32), Wallace (10), Brand (?), Sampson (6)
C: KAJ (36), Wallace (4) O'Neal ( Sampson (?)

IP - I just filled out a rough estimate for you for the numbers.

Again - some numbers to fluctuate as needed.

Not sure why the smiley face is there with Sampson..trying to edit it out, but it's still there.

GF you know your the man in my eyes, right?

So, and remember I am just keeping it real here, if what people are critiquing about your team is having a lack of three point shooting and the strategy of using three big men at the same time up front without any three pointers in the lineup, and you come back with

"Don't forget we have Eddie Jones and Michael Cooper"

Then why should people remember that if you don't have them as having ANY minutes in your minutes breakdown?

Personally, I think a young KG could guard anyone but perhaps you would be better served keeping him at PF and utilizing an rotation of Kareem, KG, Cooper, Eddie Jones and Payton. 4 unbelievable defenders, 2 great three point shooters and KG to spread the floor and keep double teams off Kareem and lots of space to allow Payton to do what he does.

I think that a way better limited minutes rotation than your big man idea. Also, don't forget what Larry Bird said about Michael Cooper. He thought he was the best defensive player he ever player against. Having him at the three isn't so bad.

EDIT: Sorry GF I just saw the ? on the ends of the minutes breakdown for Cooper and Jones and didn't see their names further in. My bad.

Nick - great points (TP). I'll certainly consider that lineup.

And Roy - why in the world is your TP count going DOWN when I hit the giveth button for you?

And how did it get to 32000 in 1st place?

[mgent]

Weren't you guys talking about a lineup with KG at SF?

Just as a situational lineup. Bulk of his minutes at PF and starts at PF.

Yeah but I thought that was the cause of the spacing debate.

[indeedproceed]

IP, I think it was you that said Larry could play any position if he wanted.  What makes you think Larry could guard any position but KG couldn't?

I was trying to make a joke, about Larry being beyond reproach.

[GreenFaith1819]

Maybe it's believable to some coming from a Mod, but as I have presented the facts we have adequate remedies in Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones to remedy our outside shooting.

Okay, if that's the case, than how man minutes do you see Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones combining for? I went thought your old posts looking for a minutes breakdown by position, but I didn't find one (apologies if I missed it).

But how do you see it breaking down?

PG: Payton (36), Rondo (12)
SG: Dumars (30), Spreewell (4), Jones (14), Cooper(?)
SF: Worthy (30), Cooper (12), Garnett (6), Jones (?)
PF: KG (32), Wallace (10), Brand (?), Sampson (6)
C: KAJ (36), Wallace (4) O'Neal ( Sampson (?)

IP - I just filled out a rough estimate for you for the numbers.

Again - some numbers to fluctuate as needed.

Not sure why the smiley face is there with Sampson..trying to edit it out, but it's still there.

Im surprised by the ammount of minutes for eddie jones

I didn't see Eddie as being a starter until today's conversations with the posters here.

I may keep Dumars at the SG, but may switch the numbers around a bit.

My only concern with that is that while Eddie was a very good defender, he was not elite level like Dumars.

[Who]

Weren't you guys talking about a lineup with KG at SF?

Just as a situational lineup. Bulk of his minutes at PF and starts at PF.

Yeah but I thought that was the cause of the spacing debate.

Swap Worthy for Garnett. They are about same in terms jump shooting from perimeter anyway.

[Rondo2287]

IP, I think it was you that said Larry could play any position if he wanted.  What makes you think Larry could guard any position but KG couldn't?

I was trying to make a joke, about Larry being beyond reproach.

Who would win in a fight?  Larry or God?  Trick question Larry is God

[indeedproceed]

Maybe it's believable to some coming from a Mod, but as I have presented the facts we have adequate remedies in Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones to remedy our outside shooting.

Okay, if that's the case, than how man minutes do you see Michael Cooper and Eddie Jones combining for? I went thought your old posts looking for a minutes breakdown by position, but I didn't find one (apologies if I missed it).

But how do you see it breaking down?

PG: Payton (36), Rondo (12)
SG: Dumars (30), Spreewell (4), Jones (14), Cooper(?)
SF: Worthy (30), Cooper (12), Garnett (6), Jones (?)
PF: KG (32), Wallace (10), Brand (?), Sampson (6)
C: KAJ (36), Wallace (4) O'Neal ( Sampson (?)

IP - I just filled out a rough estimate for you for the numbers.

Again - some numbers to fluctuate as needed.

Not sure why the smiley face is there with Sampson..trying to edit it out, but it's still there.

See I think if you start from that as a jumping off point, and then bring in 'squads of guys', or 'rules' when substituting.

Like:

"I'd never play Rondo with Dumars and Worthy"

or

"I'd never play KG at the 3 without Eddie Jones at the 2"

Stuff like that. Stuff that acknowledges a weakness, than strategically and clearly tackles it. That's the only way to hold your own in these kinds of debates.

[KCattheStripe]

Booooooooooooring.

[mgent]

IP, I think it was you that said Larry could play any position if he wanted.  What makes you think Larry could guard any position but KG couldn't?

I was trying to make a joke, about Larry being beyond reproach.

Oh okay, but Larry really could guard all the frontcourt positions and I think KG's length, speed, and IQ takes that ability to another level.

So long as he lifts up his shorts to allow for better leg mobility like he always does on the perimeter.

Speaking of, what are the length of the shorts in this league?  I bet KG could guard Derrick Rose in short shorts  

[mgent]

Weren't you guys talking about a lineup with KG at SF?

Just as a situational lineup. Bulk of his minutes at PF and starts at PF.

Yeah but I thought that was the cause of the spacing debate.

Swap Worthy for Garnett. They are about same in terms jump shooting from perimeter anyway.

Yeah I noticed that too, but that doesn't make the KG at SF lineup any less doomed to fail.

[StartOrien]

Does Eddie Jones have the frame to play small forward?