Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer

[PosImpos]

I actually wouldn't mind Udrih or Casspi on this team and would probably trade Ray for them (I'd consider taking back garcia if I had to as well).  It certainly hurts the cap position, but I think it would fill in a lot of holes on the team (i.e. backup PG/SG and backup SF).  I realize trading Ray would leave a bit of a hole at SG, but I think West and Udrih would do all right in that role.

Rondo/Udrih
West/Udrih
Pierce/Green/Casspi
Garnett/Green/J. O'Neal
J. O'Neal/S. O'Neal/Krstic

Not a bad team.  We could still explore sign and trades of both Green and Davis to look for a better SG or a bigger PF backup.

Not a bad team, but still worse than a team with Ray Allen instead of Udrih and Casspi.

probably next year, but not going forward.  I really think Casspi has the potential to be the long term answer at SF.  He is just 22 and is getting better and better and he was actually fairly effective this year (meaning he could contribute on a high level team like the Celtics).  Udrih is still young enough to be a contributor with the next group and has enough size and versatility to play many roles for the team.

Count me unimpressed by Casspi.  What's his ceiling, Hedo Turkoglu?  Entering a rebuilding phase, I wouldn't consider anybody with that kind of ceiling as the "long term answer."  If he were a better shooter and could turn into a Danillo Gallinari or a Peja Stojakovic, that would be one thing.  But my guess is the chances of that are slim.

As for Udrih, he's not bad, but despite his improvement the last couple of years I don't think he's really worth the money his contract requires.  Plus, though at 28 he's technically young enough to contribute for a few years with the next group, I'd rather not make any kind of a commitment to a player who is likely to decline significantly within a couple years. 

That said, I'd welcome any trade with the Kings that could net us one of their future first rounders.  That team has potential with Tyreke and DeMarcus, but my guess is they'll be pretty bad for at least a few more years.

[BballTim]

LA - drafted Kobe (franchise player) and built around him.
MIA - drafted Wade (franchise player) and built around him.
Mavs - drafted Dirk (franchise player) and built around him.
Bulls - drafted Rose (franchise player) and built around him.
OKC - drafted Durant and Westbrook (franchise players).
Spurs - drafted 3 superstars (Duncan, Ginobili, Parker).

  The thing about this is the Mavs and the Bulls were bad for a number of years before they drafted Dirk and Rose and both teams had multiple top 5 picks in those years. Yet neither team was on the path to winning before drafting these players. They could have been winning 55 or 25 games in the years leading up to those drafts without affecting their futures. Getting bad and being bad in and of itself doesn't get you close to a title. It can be a long, drawn out journey back to where you think we are now, a team that can be good but won't contend. It's not a sure path to the top and it's not the only path to the top. It's really a last resort.

[PosImpos]

LA - drafted Kobe (franchise player) and built around him.
MIA - drafted Wade (franchise player) and built around him.
Mavs - drafted Dirk (franchise player) and built around him.
Bulls - drafted Rose (franchise player) and built around him.
OKC - drafted Durant and Westbrook (franchise players).
Spurs - drafted 3 superstars (Duncan, Ginobili, Parker).

  The thing about this is the Mavs and the Bulls were bad for a number of years before they drafted Dirk and Rose and both teams had multiple top 5 picks in those years. Yet neither team was on the path to winning before drafting these players. They could have been winning 55 or 25 games in the years leading up to those drafts without affecting their futures. Getting bad and being bad in and of itself doesn't get you close to a title. It can be a long, drawn out journey back to where you think we are now, a team that can be good but won't contend. It's not a sure path to the top and it's not the only path to the top. It's really a last resort.

All of those teams had to get bad and draft those franchise players in order to become relevant.  Only the Lakers, who lured Shaq in free agency because they are in L.A., were able to become a dominant team without doing a lot of good drafting.

Getting bad and drafting high doesn't guarantee that you will become a contender, but it's the best available option.  

Otherwise, you have to take a middling path and hope that one or more of your 10-20 picks will turn into an All-Star and you will be able to lure more All-Stars in free agency, or trade second-tier prospects for them.  

The worst option, I think, is to clear cap space and think that you can convince a superstar free agent or two to come play for your team.  If you are in NY or LA, perhaps, you can hope for that strategy to work.  Not so much in Boston.


None of these methods of rebuilding guarantees that your team will become a contender in any short amount of time.  Choosing to stay competitive as possible and just hope for the best does guarantee that your team will at least be interesting to watch most of the time and that you'll have a fighting chance of making the playoffs and winning a series or two in the immediate future.  There's a much greater chance of simply wallowing in the middle of the pack for years and years that way, though, even if it keeps fans interested and makes money. 

The franchises that are well managed and have money tend to make good moves and take advantage of teams that don't have money.  For those franchises, the rebuilding period is often not as long.  The Celtics are generally well managed and have lots of money, with a big market, so I think there's a good chance that rebuilding with high draft picks is a viable option.  

This isn't the NFL where anybody has the chance to win it all if they get hot at the right time.  Teams that win it all are almost exclusively ones that draft superstars and make the right moves to build around them.  

Exceptions do occur now and then, like the '04 Pistons, but those are the exceptions that make the rule.  Aiming to win by being like the '04 Pistons is not a strategy that's likely to result in championships.

[Moranis]

I actually wouldn't mind Udrih or Casspi on this team and would probably trade Ray for them (I'd consider taking back garcia if I had to as well).  It certainly hurts the cap position, but I think it would fill in a lot of holes on the team (i.e. backup PG/SG and backup SF).  I realize trading Ray would leave a bit of a hole at SG, but I think West and Udrih would do all right in that role.

Rondo/Udrih
West/Udrih
Pierce/Green/Casspi
Garnett/Green/J. O'Neal
J. O'Neal/S. O'Neal/Krstic

Not a bad team.  We could still explore sign and trades of both Green and Davis to look for a better SG or a bigger PF backup.

Not a bad team, but still worse than a team with Ray Allen instead of Udrih and Casspi.

probably next year, but not going forward.  I really think Casspi has the potential to be the long term answer at SF.  He is just 22 and is getting better and better and he was actually fairly effective this year (meaning he could contribute on a high level team like the Celtics).  Udrih is still young enough to be a contributor with the next group and has enough size and versatility to play many roles for the team.

Count me unimpressed by Casspi.  What's his ceiling, Hedo Turkoglu?  Entering a rebuilding phase, I wouldn't consider anybody with that kind of ceiling as the "long term answer."  If he were a better shooter and could turn into a Danillo Gallinari or a Peja Stojakovic, that would be one thing.  But my guess is the chances of that are slim.

As for Udrih, he's not bad, but despite his improvement the last couple of years I don't think he's really worth the money his contract requires.  Plus, though at 28 he's technically young enough to contribute for a few years with the next group, I'd rather not make any kind of a commitment to a player who is likely to decline significantly within a couple years. 

That said, I'd welcome any trade with the Kings that could net us one of their future first rounders.  That team has potential with Tyreke and DeMarcus, but my guess is they'll be pretty bad for at least a few more years.

I think you are underselling Casspi and he isn't a bad shooter (two seasons, 3PT% at over 37% is not bad).  I mean in 3 seasons Gallinari is just .5% better from three, though Gallinari is much better at the line.  

Casspi has a better rebound rate, the same assist rate, and a better steal rate then Gallinari.  They are actually fairly similar players, so if you think Gallinari could be the answer, I don't see why you wouldn't think Casspi would be either.

[Moranis]

Exceptions do occur now and then, like the '04 Pistons, but those are the exceptions that make the rule.  Aiming to win by being like the '04 Pistons is not a strategy that's likely to result in championships.

The thing about the Pistons is while they had no superstars, Chauncey was the 3rd pick, Sheed was the 4th pick, Hamilton was the 7th pick, Hunter was the 10th pick, and Williamson was the 13th pick.  I mean that is 5 lottery picks that played key roles on the title team.  Sure Prince was 23rd, Okur was a second rounder, and Ben, Ham, and James were undrafted, but they still had 5 lottery picks.  And sure they acquired them through trades and free agency and some were past their prime, but it does chance the fact they had a lot of high level talent on that team.

[PosImpos]

Exceptions do occur now and then, like the '04 Pistons, but those are the exceptions that make the rule.  Aiming to win by being like the '04 Pistons is not a strategy that's likely to result in championships.

The thing about the Pistons is while they had no superstars, Chauncey was the 3rd pick, Sheed was the 4th pick, Hamilton was the 7th pick, Hunter was the 10th pick, and Williamson was the 13th pick.  I mean that is 5 lottery picks that played key roles on the title team.  Sure Prince was 23rd, Okur was a second rounder, and Ben, Ham, and James were undrafted, but they still had 5 lottery picks.  And sure they acquired them through trades and free agency and some were past their prime, but it does chance the fact they had a lot of high level talent on that team.

Well, that's fair, but the Pistons didn't draft Chauncey, Rasheed, or Rip Hamilton.  Ben Wallace was their most important defensive player, and he was undrafted.

The Pistons are definitely an outlier, though your point is taken in that even they had to rely largely upon highly drafted talent in order to win it all.  One way or another, a team that wins a title will have to rely upon players that were taken early in the draft.  The only way to acquire such players outside of the draft (or free agency, which is a worse crapshoot) is to trade similar talent or high draft picks for them.  Any way you cut it, it comes back to drafting high.  Unless you're LA.


As for Omri Casspi, he has a decent percentage on 3's but he isn't on the same level as Gallinari as a pure shooter (TS% around 52% versus 60%, a huge difference).  

I actually don't really think Gallinari would be "the answer," at least not ideally, but I'd want to believe Omri could be at that level in order to consider him any kind of a long term solution.

[kozlodoev]

I actually wouldn't mind Udrih or Casspi on this team and would probably trade Ray for them (I'd consider taking back garcia if I had to as well).  It certainly hurts the cap position, but I think it would fill in a lot of holes on the team (i.e. backup PG/SG and backup SF).  I realize trading Ray would leave a bit of a hole at SG, but I think West and Udrih would do all right in that role.

Rondo/Udrih
West/Udrih
Pierce/Green/Casspi
Garnett/Green/J. O'Neal
J. O'Neal/S. O'Neal/Krstic

Not a bad team.  We could still explore sign and trades of both Green and Davis to look for a better SG or a bigger PF backup.

Not a bad team, but still worse than a team with Ray Allen instead of Udrih and Casspi.

probably next year, but not going forward.  I really think Casspi has the potential to be the long term answer at SF.  He is just 22 and is getting better and better and he was actually fairly effective this year (meaning he could contribute on a high level team like the Celtics).  Udrih is still young enough to be a contributor with the next group and has enough size and versatility to play many roles for the team.

Casspi has regressed this season, on a team where there has been ample opportunity to step up and continue. Both him and Udrih are role-players, and not of the highest quality.

[PosImpos]

After watching tonight's game I'm convinced that this team cannot possibly compete for a title next year as constructed.  The only way they could do it is if Danny pulls a miracle trade out of you know where and gets us a center not yet past his prime who can rebound and score 15+ a night (e.g. Nene . . . oh man, that would be awesome).

They need a new offensive option who can score inside and take 10-15 shots a game, taking the load off the Big 3 (especially KG) so they are not so dead tired at the end of tight games.

[Jon]

After watching tonight's game I'm convinced that this team cannot possibly compete for a title next year as constructed.  The only way they could do it is if Danny pulls a miracle trade out of you know where and gets us a center not yet past his prime who can rebound and score 15+ a night (e.g. Nene . . . oh man, that would be awesome).

They need a new offensive option who can score inside and take 10-15 shots a game, taking the load off the Big 3 (especially KG) so they are not so dead tired at the end of tight games.

First and foremost, I don't think they're going to rebuild.  I think Doc's comments strongly allude to that fact. 

Second, I don't buy this age argument.  Did they look older and slower than Miami?  Absolutely?  However, is that why they lost?  No. 

They lost because Rajon Rondo couldn't play.  Arguably our best player was essentially useless the past 2 games, still played substantial minutes (arguably hurting the team), and we still nearly won. 

I think the moral we should take out of this is that if Rondo was healthy, we likely would be up 3-2 going back to Boston to close it out. 

And if that's the case, the window is most likely not closed. 

[outcry]

They shouldn't, and I don't think they will blow the team up before next year's season. I believe Ainge will entertain some thought into moving Rondo for a better scoring PG. I'm not sure there's anyway they'd be able to pry CPaul away from NO, though. They need to add a great rebounding center, as well as an explosive bench player. Get rid of BBD and the other players that contributed nothing in the playoffs. I truly believe this team can make the finals if they add a few nice pieces in the offseason.

[PosImpos]

After watching tonight's game I'm convinced that this team cannot possibly compete for a title next year as constructed.  The only way they could do it is if Danny pulls a miracle trade out of you know where and gets us a center not yet past his prime who can rebound and score 15+ a night (e.g. Nene . . . oh man, that would be awesome).

They need a new offensive option who can score inside and take 10-15 shots a game, taking the load off the Big 3 (especially KG) so they are not so dead tired at the end of tight games.

First and foremost, I don't think they're going to rebuild.  I think Doc's comments strongly allude to that fact. 

Second, I don't buy this age argument.  Did they look older and slower than Miami?  Absolutely?  However, is that why they lost?  No. 

They lost because Rajon Rondo couldn't play.  Arguably our best player was essentially useless the past 2 games, still played substantial minutes (arguably hurting the team), and we still nearly won. 

I think the moral we should take out of this is that if Rondo was healthy, we likely would be up 3-2 going back to Boston to close it out. 

And if that's the case, the window is most likely not closed. 

I agree, based on Doc's interview it looks like they aren't going to rebuild yet.

I think there's reason to believe the team could still compete next year with the Big 4, but only if they get scoring from the PG and Center position.

Not having Rondo certainly hurt them, and the series may have gone different with him healthy, but even in the 2 games he was healthy, we saw the same thing happen that has happened time and again to this team: they ran out of gas late in the 4th quarter.  The legs just weren't there anymore.  That's what happens to old guys when you expect them to play full effort on defense all game and also score the majority of the team's points.  They lose energy, they default to long jumpshots late in the shot clock, they give up baskets inside, and they crumble.

[Jon]

After watching tonight's game I'm convinced that this team cannot possibly compete for a title next year as constructed.  The only way they could do it is if Danny pulls a miracle trade out of you know where and gets us a center not yet past his prime who can rebound and score 15+ a night (e.g. Nene . . . oh man, that would be awesome).

They need a new offensive option who can score inside and take 10-15 shots a game, taking the load off the Big 3 (especially KG) so they are not so dead tired at the end of tight games.

First and foremost, I don't think they're going to rebuild.  I think Doc's comments strongly allude to that fact. 

Second, I don't buy this age argument.  Did they look older and slower than Miami?  Absolutely?  However, is that why they lost?  No. 

They lost because Rajon Rondo couldn't play.  Arguably our best player was essentially useless the past 2 games, still played substantial minutes (arguably hurting the team), and we still nearly won. 

I think the moral we should take out of this is that if Rondo was healthy, we likely would be up 3-2 going back to Boston to close it out. 

And if that's the case, the window is most likely not closed. 

I agree, based on Doc's interview it looks like they aren't going to rebuild yet.

I think there's reason to believe the team could still compete next year with the Big 4, but only if they get scoring from the PG and Center position.

Not having Rondo certainly hurt them, and the series may have gone different with him healthy, but even in the 2 games he was healthy, we saw the same thing happen that has happened time and again to this team: they ran out of gas late in the 4th quarter.  The legs just weren't there anymore.  That's what happens to old guys when you expect them to play full effort on defense all game and also score the majority of the team's points.  They lose energy, they default to long jumpshots late in the shot clock, they give up baskets inside, and they crumble.

You're right about games 1 and 2, but we lost 3 games to Atlanta in '08 largely because they were bigger and more athletic than us.  So that's nothing new. 

And despite the fact all those things happened, I can't imagine any scenario that we don't win Game 4 with a healthy Rondo.  He would've dunked that layup, and most likely they would've been up by far more than that had he been at 100%. 

And tonight they were in control until the 3 minute mark.  Would they really have stalled and fallen apart with Rondo there to carry them?  Even if they would've, would the Heat still have been in striking distance had they not been able to basically ignore Rondo all game? 

I don't think so. 

[Casperian]

Trade Rondo for a bunch of Draft Picks and hope a star-player becomes available. A package of either KG, Pierce or Ray plus those picks should be a great deal for any team looking to blow it up.

[Moranis]

After watching tonight's game I'm convinced that this team cannot possibly compete for a title next year as constructed.  The only way they could do it is if Danny pulls a miracle trade out of you know where and gets us a center not yet past his prime who can rebound and score 15+ a night (e.g. Nene . . . oh man, that would be awesome).

They need a new offensive option who can score inside and take 10-15 shots a game, taking the load off the Big 3 (especially KG) so they are not so dead tired at the end of tight games.

First and foremost, I don't think they're going to rebuild.  I think Doc's comments strongly allude to that fact. 

Second, I don't buy this age argument.  Did they look older and slower than Miami?  Absolutely?  However, is that why they lost?  No. 

They lost because Rajon Rondo couldn't play.  Arguably our best player was essentially useless the past 2 games, still played substantial minutes (arguably hurting the team), and we still nearly won. 

I think the moral we should take out of this is that if Rondo was healthy, we likely would be up 3-2 going back to Boston to close it out. 

And if that's the case, the window is most likely not closed. 

I agree, based on Doc's interview it looks like they aren't going to rebuild yet.

I think there's reason to believe the team could still compete next year with the Big 4, but only if they get scoring from the PG and Center position.

Not having Rondo certainly hurt them, and the series may have gone different with him healthy, but even in the 2 games he was healthy, we saw the same thing happen that has happened time and again to this team: they ran out of gas late in the 4th quarter.  The legs just weren't there anymore.  That's what happens to old guys when you expect them to play full effort on defense all game and also score the majority of the team's points.  They lose energy, they default to long jumpshots late in the shot clock, they give up baskets inside, and they crumble.

You're right about games 1 and 2, but we lost 3 games to Atlanta in '08 largely because they were bigger and more athletic than us.  So that's nothing new. 

And despite the fact all those things happened, I can't imagine any scenario that we don't win Game 4 with a healthy Rondo.  He would've dunked that layup, and most likely they would've been up by far more than that had he been at 100%. 

And tonight they were in control until the 3 minute mark.  Would they really have stalled and fallen apart with Rondo there to carry them?  Even if they would've, would the Heat still have been in striking distance had they not been able to basically ignore Rondo all game? 

I don't think so. 

Miami is going to be a lot better next year.  They aren't going to regress.  They are going to add a center, improve their bench, and improve their PG position.  The Celtics need to get a lot better to beat the improved Miami that is going to be on the floor next year.

[kenmaine]

Keep
 Pierce
 Garnett
 Rondo
 Jermaine O'Neal
 And Ray Allen(unless you can get something for him).

Dump
 The whole bench.
 Baby- fat, can't jump, whines about not starting.
 Jeff Green- Useless, a non-factor. Can't defend, can't catch a pass, can't dribble, can't rebound. Other that that, great "potential".
 Krysic-  not too bad as a backup center- at least he has some skills
 Bradley-- worst player I've ever seen.
 Wafer- not too bad as a backup
 Delonte- plays hard, but WAY overrated(the Trot Nixon of the Celtics)
 Shaq- thanks for trying big guy, but time to retire
 Arroyo, Pav...., and anyone else I forgot, please just go away.


So, what did we get in return for Leon Powe, Kendrick Perkins, Tony Allen, Eddie House? Answer- a whole bunch of stiffs plus a draft pick.