Author Topic: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer  (Read 29830 times)

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Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« on: May 04, 2011, 12:27:01 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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Okay, so if the Celtics flame out against the Heat (apologies for the pun) in 5-6 games, and the lockout doesn't completely prevent Danny from doing anything significant this summer, I'm going to assume that the rebuilding process will begin in earnest.

Here are my thoughts:

1) Doc Rivers will 'retire' as Celtics head coach.  Lawrence Frank, Kevin McHale, or perhaps Armond Hill would be the most likely candidates, I think, to replace him.

2) Ray Allen, as the member of the Big 3 with the most value to a contender (solid 4th option shooter, can start or come off the bench), will be shopped around.  Chicago seems like the team that could use him the most.  The Knicks are unlikely to take on salary since they want Chris Paul.  The Nets are unlikely for the same reason (they want DH12).  I could see Dallas taking an interest, but they don't have much to offer.  The Heat would probably love to have him, but they wouldn't have anything to trade, either.  Perhaps a team like the Bucks would have some interest, since shooting is their biggest need and a year ago they were a borderline contender when their core players were healthy.

3) Danny will look at trading KG as well, either during the summer or before the trade deadline.  As an expiring contract and a player who can still contribute in a diminished role, KG should have a fair amount of value to any number of teams.  As with Ray, we'd be looking to take back expiring contracts, late first round / early second round draft picks, and maybe a fringe prospect.

4) Sign and trade options for Jeff Green and Glen Davis should be explored, as well.  I'm not sure about the trade value of either of these players; it is likely that we can hold onto Jeff Green for another year for only a qualifying offer this summer.  Giving him a full season to prove that he's worth keeping around in the rebuilding process might be a good idea.  

The pros and cons of Glen Davis, however, are well known.  He is not a player that can be a real asset to a rebuilding team.  He should go be a role player on a playoff team somewhere, though I suspect he hopes to be a top option on a bad team.  He should be signed and traded for anything we can get in return, or simply not signed at all if no trade can be worked out.

5) Keep Paul Pierce around.  It'll maintain a team identity through the first couple years of the rebuilding process, and keep fans buying tickets to come to see their favorite hero in green from the last decade.  He probably has the most trade value of any of the Big 3, but he has a couple years left on a hefty contract, so trading him would be complicated and we'd likely not be satisfied with what we'd get in return.  

6) Shop Rajon Rondo around.  Offer to combine him with Jeff Green or Glen Davis if it could net a good offer.  If there's any chance at all that New Orleans would bite on an offer of Rondo + filler and picks for Chris Paul, you've got to do it.  I really doubt they'd be interested in that, though; I think they can get more for CP3, who demonstrated in the first round of the playoffs that he can still carry a team with practically no talent around him.  

In trading Rondo my hope would be to get back a young player with solid potential who won't make the team better in the short term but could be a very solid piece, either as part of the core or in a major trade, sometime in the near future.



Above all, my opinion is that the rebuilding process has to start, and it should start soon.  Certainly nobody wants to see the Big 3 go, and it would be easier, in some ways, to hold on to this era and try to squeeze out a couple more 40-50 win seasons as a playoff team of moderate relevance.  The prospect of returning to the mire of mediocrity in which this team was stuck for much of the 20 years before Garnett and Allen came to town is certainly not enticing.  

But the best chance of transforming the old, past-their-prime Celtics of now into one of the next up-and-coming competitive teams in the league is to get the most value we can out of the players currently on our roster right now.  As difficult as it may be, it makes sense to do it now because the window appears to be closed.
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Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 12:51:15 PM »

Offline LB3533

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Too early....

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 12:57:22 PM »

Offline Mr October

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I don't like the idea of trading RA and KG for a bunch of late first round picks. I'd rather watch them in green for one more year, let their contracts expire to create cap space, and just buy some 1st rounders in the 20s with some of the cash saved.

However I agree that Davis and Green are not valuable building pieces. Rondo may also be just too trick or treat for me.

Anyway, its too early to break this stuff down. Lets wait until the season is over, huh?

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2011, 01:01:14 PM »

Offline MBz

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Though Ray Allen has the most to offer for a contender, I don't think we could get much back in return.  Looking at contenders, most of them don't have pieces that they can give up.  Maybe Dallas?  Could we put something together which would result in getting Roddy Beaubois?  He's got potential to be a fairly good combo guard I think.  I'm not sure what else we would be able to get in return from a team trying to make that leap.  I think your first step needs to be whether or not you can put a package together to get Chris Paul away from the hornets.  If you can trade Rondo and filler for Paul then you do that first. If we trade Rondo, I think it can be for Chris Paul and only Chris Paul. After that, I think you might be willing to give it 1 more year.  During free agency you try to find yourself a banger on the bench.  Someone who can come in, rebound and score a little in the pain.  If you can't get Chris Paul, then I think you look into moving KG.  He has a big expiring contract, combine that with some picks, maybe Avery Bradley, whoever they draft this year and you might be able to get a good young player with a lot of potential.  
do it

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 01:01:55 PM »

Offline Chris

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I don't like the idea of trading RA and KG for a bunch of late first round picks. I'd rather watch them in green for one more year, let their contracts expire to create cap space, and just buy some 1st rounders in the 20s with some of the cash saved.


I agree.  I think you explore moving those guys for true, impact players going forward, however, if you can't get them, then the better plan is to reload for one more run, and then start over in 2012 with the cap space, and hopefully at least a couple assets.  

This is just like the trade deadline in 2010.  Everyone was calling for Danny to blow it up, but it just didn't make sense, unless he could get enough value and the right pieces to go forward with.  

Even without any changes, and just signing marginal free agents, this is still a top 4 team in the East next year, and they are a little luck, chemistry, and a good signing or two away from being a legit contender again.  You don't give that up unless you are getting something really significant in return.

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2011, 01:02:43 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  On what planet is Ray a more valuable player than KG?

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2011, 01:03:30 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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Talking about this stuff is more palatable to me than continuing to lament the Celtics' fortunes in the current series, or trying to convince myself or be convinced by others that there is still some glimmer of hope against the Heat.

The thread title says "let's assume," which means pretending as though it were not "too early" to talk about this stuff.
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

"I know you all wanna win, but you gotta do it TOGETHER!"
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Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 01:04:04 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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  On what planet is Ray a more valuable player than KG?


He isn't; he probably would be easier to trade, though, since he has a smaller contract and we'd expect to receive less in return for him.

I suppose I should clarify "most value to a contender" to mean "best able to function in a minimized role off the bench for a team with an established starting 5."

I have a feeling KG would want to either start and be a major part of a team or retire.
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

"I know you all wanna win, but you gotta do it TOGETHER!"
- Doc Rivers

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2011, 01:04:34 PM »

Offline Who

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I'll give it some more thought after the C's playoff run ends ... feels off (not in the right frame of mind) to be thinking about this during a playoff series which is still in play.

But for now ... I am not seeing any value in beginning the rebuilding a year early instead of 2012.

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2011, 01:05:35 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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It's too early to look into rebuilding - both because the playoffs are still going on, and because logically, the rebuilding proccess should begin in another year for obvious reasons.

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2011, 01:09:48 PM »

Offline Kwhit10

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The best thing that could happen to this team in terms of rebuilding would unfortunately be a lockout.

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2011, 01:11:09 PM »

Offline Who

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The best thing that could happen to this team in terms of rebuilding would unfortunately be a lockout.
Why? I mean, how does a lockout help them?

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2011, 01:14:17 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  On what planet is Ray a more valuable player than KG?


He isn't; he probably would be easier to trade, though, since he has a smaller contract and we'd expect to receive less in return for him.

I suppose I should clarify "most value to a contender" to mean "best able to function in a minimized role off the bench for a team with an established starting 5."

I have a feeling KG would want to either start and be a major part of a team or retire.

  Not all contenders have established starting fives, in fact none of them really do.

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2011, 01:14:23 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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The best thing that could happen to this team in terms of rebuilding would unfortunately be a lockout.
Why? I mean, how does a lockout help them?

If it invalidates current contracts, I suppose?  I doubt that would happen, though.  Maybe he just means a drastically shortened season, which might actually give a super old team like ours a chance to win (though I doubt that, too, since major injuries hit our team halfway through the season the last two years).


I have a hard time disagreeing with people who say that it might not make sense to try and trade either Ray or KG this summer because we probably wouldn't get much in return for them.  I do maintain, however, that Danny should explore every opportunity to trade Glen Davis and Rondo, with Jeff Green as a possible piece in a bigger trade.
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

"I know you all wanna win, but you gotta do it TOGETHER!"
- Doc Rivers

Re: Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2011, 01:15:01 PM »

Online Roy H.

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The prudent thing to do would probably be to trade Ray and KG.  However, unless they specifically ask for it, I'd like to see us keep them.  I'm just not in a huge hurry to lose 60 games per year and start rooting for the team to lose again.  I'd rather have our "big three" here for a few more years.

That's more sentimental rather than doing what's best for the team's future.  However, I'd rather role the dice, trade Rondo and pieces for CP3, add to the core in free agency, and hope that we catch lightning in a bottle again.


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