I love Big Baby but... [looking ahead]

[jambr380]

Hmmm, maybe I am underrating him, but I really think Baby will be a $4-5 million/yr player, tops. I know teams may see something in him, but he will always have the same limitations and teams pay for potential, not a borderline starter, who clearly does more off the bench. If this is the case, I think we keep him. I really think those who think Danny 'picked' Baby over Perk are a little mistaken. In no way, shape, or form are those two considered equal and we wouldn't have gotten nearly as much as we did in return for Baby as we did for Perk.

[jambr380]

I do like JDub's idea on Michael Redd. I think he could be had for cheap, although he is 31, so I don't know that he will step in after Ray leaves. In fact, Ray's career may last longer.

Also, Roy made a good point with Jeff Green's qualifying offer. In an ideal world, he would sign it and then we would have options next year (same if Baby signed a one year contract). If not and he signs an offer sheet with another team, I have to think we could get something pretty appealing in return. Not having Perk stinks, but Green will either be a very decent player for us now, and in the future, or he will be another chip. Perk may have just left for nothing (although I still think he would have stayed if a 4 year/30 mill deal really was offered).

[Reyquila]

If we lose BBD we will have lost more than half the hustle this team has. He is so good for us regardless of his faults that I cannot envision our future without him; unless he does a Kendrik Perkins on us and it becomes impossible to sign him. His lost would be felt a lot more than losing Perkins. Perkins was way overrated - BBD's hustle and 18 ft. jumper and drive around the basket is the best we got. We better not lose him its all I got to say.

[LilRip]

i hope we don't overpay for BBD. someone's going to offer him say...8mil? something like that. and DA will do the right thing and let him walk. or pull off a S&T, and hopefully, we'll get back someone who's productive and old (thus, no more potential, which is why that team is willing to trade that person away) and in a 1-year deal.

[get_banners]

I doubt anyone will overpay, especially given the new, tighter salary cap (which I assume will be part of the new CBA). BBD has done a lot to increase his game. One thing he cannot do (unless he drops 50 pounds or so, which will obviously hurt his inside game) is become taller or become a better leaper. Think about it...he's a great role player. Role players do not make ridiculous salaries. Remember Posey getting paid? That was the MLE for 4 years. I don't see anyone offering him more than that...if he even gets that.

[guava_wrench]

Davis is still the same player.



I still believe he is not worth the MLE past this current teams run.  When KG and Ray go, Davis is no longer worth the MLE.  That contract then becomes a hindrance in rebuilding. 




I would not sign Krstic for MLE past this current teams run as well. 

I am curious, what type of player do you expect us to sign with the MLE (or for about MLE-level money)?

A one year guy.


There is not MLE guy out there worth having past KG's and Ray's contract. 

In addition to that, I also think that Baby should try to find a place where he can start immediately.

[Fafnir]

Davis is still the same player.



I still believe he is not worth the MLE past this current teams run.  When KG and Ray go, Davis is no longer worth the MLE.  That contract then becomes a hindrance in rebuilding. 




I would not sign Krstic for MLE past this current teams run as well. 

I am curious, what type of player do you expect us to sign with the MLE (or for about MLE-level money)?

A one year guy.


There is not MLE guy out there worth having past KG's and Ray's contract. 

In addition to that, I also think that Baby should try to find a place where he can start immediately.

He's had his chances to start here though, with a strong supporting line up. He's largely disappointed each time.

If a team signs BBD to be their starter, that doesn't bode well for them.

[LooseCannon]

For those who think that Big Baby is going to get paid, please name three teams that you think will be interested in his services.

[Casperian]

I think Baby deserves MLE money, and he will get MLE money (or the equivalent in the new CBA). If you can sign a player of his quality (and who has proven he works in the system) for fair money, you do it. It´s not a problem to pay a player what he´s worth, it´s just a problem if you overpay, imo.

Besides, it would be pretty stupid to develop him and not reap any benefits, either through his play or in a trade (and I don´t think we´d get fair value in a S&T). Over the last 4 years, only Rondo and Baby improved their value on this team, everyone else either stagnated or declined. Letting him go without even trying to re-sign him doesn´t strike me as a smart business move, short-term or long-term.
If we still contend we´ll need his qualities and reliability. If we don´t, we´ll have at least a valuable asset on our books, whose value could even rise with a starting role.

So, neglecting any possibility that the Celtics FO has a "rebuild in one off-season" plan we´re not aware of, I think we should and will re-sign him to a fair deal.

[LooseCannon]

It´s not a problem to pay a player what he´s worth, it´s just a problem if you overpay, imo.

So, what is overpaying Glen Davis?  People have been focusing on how much per year he is worth.  I'm going to argue that he's not worth a long-term contract unless it is comes at a discount. He is not good enough to be a core player of championship contender that you build around.  He is a role player off the bench for a good team.  At most, Ainge should give him two years.  Maybe a third if it is only partially guaranteed.  Overplaying role players like Big Baby is how teams get locked into that cycle of mediocrity where they are always in contention for the last playoff spots, never threatening for a championship and never likely to get a top draft pick.

[Spilling Green Dye]

I don't think BBD has reached his ceiling.  Then again, I don't think he's been as good as many people seem to believe.  He does however manage to be somewhat productive off the bench while being overweight and shooting terribly, so if he can improve his jumpshot and tone down then I think his game can be even better.

For all those people who flaunt Davis' ability to shoot a jumper, yet harp on Rondo for his ugly shot, keep this in mind:  Rondo shoots 40% for jumpers (which is BAD), but Davis shoots 35.6% (which is WORSE) for jumpers.  So, needless to say, I think he can improve.

I hope he re-signs with the Celtics for $3-4 million/year for a 1 to 2 year contract.  He's a good player to have on a team gunning for a championship.

[Bankshot]

It´s not a problem to pay a player what he´s worth, it´s just a problem if you overpay, imo.

So, what is overpaying Glen Davis?  People have been focusing on how much per year he is worth.  I'm going to argue that he's not worth a long-term contract unless it is comes at a discount. He is not good enough to be a core player of championship contender that you build around.  He is a role player off the bench for a good team.  At most, Ainge should give him two years.  Maybe a third if it is only partially guaranteed.  Overplaying role players like Big Baby is how teams get locked into that cycle of mediocrity where they are always in contention for the last playoff spots, never threatening for a championship and never likely to get a top draft pick.

I would pay him between 3-4 million for 3 years.

[Casperian]

It´s not a problem to pay a player what he´s worth, it´s just a problem if you overpay, imo.

So, what is overpaying Glen Davis?  People have been focusing on how much per year he is worth.  I'm going to argue that he's not worth a long-term contract unless it is comes at a discount. He is not good enough to be a core player of championship contender that you build around.  He is a role player off the bench for a good team.  At most, Ainge should give him two years.  Maybe a third if it is only partially guaranteed.  Overplaying role players like Big Baby is how teams get locked into that cycle of mediocrity where they are always in contention for the last playoff spots, never threatening for a championship and never likely to get a top draft pick.

I disagree with several things.

- It´s not good to overpay any player, star or bench player.

- I think giving the max to "almost max" worthy players like Gilbert Arenas is worse than paying a bit too much roleplayer-money for a role-player.

- On one hand, Davis is worth what the market wants to pay for him. On the other hand, he has a relative value, which relates his contributions to his salary. I don´t think we´ll overpay Davis if we pay around MLE money. The MLE is basically made for players who are in the 6th man discussion, just like Davis is. Other team´s offers won´t exceed the MLE, either, in my opinion, so we should be safe to sign him for anything less than the MLE.

- I have no idea why you don´t want to lock him up long-term, or at least 3 seasons. Do you think we could use the cap space to sign Dwight Howard and Kevin Durant? Because I don´t think that´s very likely. Or would you rather give 30+ millions to players like Ben Gordon and Charlie V?

As I said, if we´re still contending next year, Baby should be a part of the team. If we´re not, then we already have an asset on the books, who could potentially rise in value with an increased role. Both situations are better than to simply let him walk for nothing.

[LooseCannon]

Teams often regret signing four- or five- year contracts and, in the last few years, end up giving away assets to try and get someone to take a player they don't want anymore.  I don't think you should lock players up for long contracts unless they are stars (especially stars who you would pay the maximum for, but who are actually worth more) or you are getting a good discount.  I wouldn't have wanted Perkins on a four-year contract without a discount or un-guaranteed years to compensate for the injury risk. 

I do have some concerns that someone with a big body like Glen Davis may break down physically earlier than other players, due to the excess weight.  I also suspect that this might be Big Baby's career year.  I think it's horrible to assume that he will just keep getting better and better.  I don't think people consider the potential downside often enough.  Then, an earthquake hits and things blow up.

[EJPLAYA]

The problem I have had with BBD and the reason I am fearful of committing long-term money to him are his very limited strengths and very glaring deficiencies. He is just the only one that seems not to recognize them. Last night was a perfect example. Every time he got in the game last night he stopped the flow of our offense. He has this idea that he is a go to isolation scorer whether in the low post or out shooting jumpers on the key. Jeff Green was in the game most of the time he was and BBD isn't smart enough to realize that HE is the real scorer on that unit and that unless wide open the ball needs to get in his hands. Sure he had a couple outside jumpers go down this game, but this season he has been poor at best from the outside. We shouldn't be iso'ing BBD.

Then he goes out there and fights like crazy at the end for those rebounds making it blatantly clear that his hustle is what endears him to fans. They overlook though that his complete lack of jumping ability is what caused him to have to rebound it 2 extra times in the first place.

I like what he brings if he can realize that with a lineup of him, Green, Delonte, Murphy, and Arroyo, that he is actually the worst offensive player of the group. If he can't realize that he either needs to take a seat and/or get sent packing after this season. I just don't see him getting much PT once Shaq and/or JO return. They have so much more complete games.