What's Jeff Green Worth?

[droponov]

Too soon to tell.

Considering what is known now, he shouldn't be paid much more than a MLE type of contract. His market value is probably well above that.

[mgent]

With Pierce on the roster:  not worth the cap space.

I find all the posts about Green being the future hilarious.  We weren't gonna sign Perk what makes people think we're gonna mess up our 2012 free agency for this kid?

Pierce is 32, he's certainly not the future at this point. Green is 24, he's athletic and can run with Rondo. And newsflash, we're gonna need pieces in place to lure a big free agent in 2012 other than just Rondo.

Also, the main reason we weren't gonna sign Perk is because Danny's targeting Dwight Howard - a center - in 2012.

I don't think Jeff Green is talented enough to sway anyone into signing here.

(my expectations are for him to be a 12-14ppg scorer at SF with above average defense and solid rebounding)

AKA Paul Pierce.

Are you saying Green is the next Paul Pierce?

No I'm saying why use cap space on Green when we've already got Pierce who brings the same things to the table if not more, at the same position?

I've already said it, but maybe I should point it out again: Pierce is 32 and can't play forever. Rondo is 25 and the centerpiece of our future, Green is 24 and was brought here to compliment that future. This trade was just as much about right now as it is the future. Whether fans like it or not, it's clear that Ainge brought in Green to be Pierce's current backup and heir apparent.

What makes you think that is clear?  We have no reason to believe Danny will do anything beyond giving him the QO.

Personally I think it's clear that we have 3 positions to fill and spending 8+mil on a backup just because he is young and a closer age to Rondo is a dumb idea when Danny has worked hard to keep our cap space fully intact.  Especially when Pierce is perfectly capable of starting at SF on a championship team for at least a few more years.  If he was as old and washed up as you think Danny wouldn't have dished out the money to secure his future here.

I never said Pierce was "old and washed up". Don't put words in my mouth.

I really doubt DA resigned Pierce because he thinks he's gonna be a key part of the team when we make the transition the Rondo Era. Pierce will eventually become a 6th man - an expensive 6th man, but a 6th man nonetheless. As many other posters have stated, Green is exactly the piece you want to bring in to compliment Rondo down the line - young, athletic, potential-filled.

Then why does it matter that Pierce is 32 and Green is 24?  It doesn't matter how well Green compliments Rondo, Pierce is the better player and he's already under contract.  Green might be a nice piece but why waste the limited cap space we have on him?

[RJ87]

With Pierce on the roster:  not worth the cap space.

I find all the posts about Green being the future hilarious.  We weren't gonna sign Perk what makes people think we're gonna mess up our 2012 free agency for this kid?

Pierce is 32, he's certainly not the future at this point. Green is 24, he's athletic and can run with Rondo. And newsflash, we're gonna need pieces in place to lure a big free agent in 2012 other than just Rondo.

Also, the main reason we weren't gonna sign Perk is because Danny's targeting Dwight Howard - a center - in 2012.

I don't think Jeff Green is talented enough to sway anyone into signing here.

(my expectations are for him to be a 12-14ppg scorer at SF with above average defense and solid rebounding)

AKA Paul Pierce.

Are you saying Green is the next Paul Pierce?

No I'm saying why use cap space on Green when we've already got Pierce who brings the same things to the table if not more, at the same position?

I've already said it, but maybe I should point it out again: Pierce is 32 and can't play forever. Rondo is 25 and the centerpiece of our future, Green is 24 and was brought here to compliment that future. This trade was just as much about right now as it is the future. Whether fans like it or not, it's clear that Ainge brought in Green to be Pierce's current backup and heir apparent.

What makes you think that is clear?  We have no reason to believe Danny will do anything beyond giving him the QO.

Personally I think it's clear that we have 3 positions to fill and spending 8+mil on a backup just because he is young and a closer age to Rondo is a dumb idea when Danny has worked hard to keep our cap space fully intact.  Especially when Pierce is perfectly capable of starting at SF on a championship team for at least a few more years.  If he was as old and washed up as you think Danny wouldn't have dished out the money to secure his future here.

I never said Pierce was "old and washed up". Don't put words in my mouth.

I really doubt DA resigned Pierce because he thinks he's gonna be a key part of the team when we make the transition the Rondo Era. Pierce will eventually become a 6th man - an expensive 6th man, but a 6th man nonetheless. As many other posters have stated, Green is exactly the piece you want to bring in to compliment Rondo down the line - young, athletic, potential-filled.

Then why does it matter that Pierce is 32 and Green is 24?  It doesn't matter how well Green compliments Rondo, Pierce is the better player and he's already under contract.  Green might be a nice piece but why waste the limited cap space we have on him?

Did you not anything I just wrote?

Note to moderators: I'm not insulting him. It's a legitimate question.

[Jon]

Here's the thing people are overlooking.  Green may be worth 7-9 million after putting up the numbers he put up in OKC; however, what's going to happen when his numbers inevitably drop here? 

And I'm not talking about a bad drop; I'm talking about the inevitable drop that is going to occur with him playing 25 minutes per game or less, rather than his customary 37 mpg her was playing in OKC (and yes, he played 37 mpg). 

Let's face it, this is a numbers driven league.  And this year if we have Brewer at the 2 and Murphy and Baby at the 4, Green may not see a ton of minutes anywhere besides backing up Pierce, which could leave him with 15 mpg (or much less).  And if that's the case, it may dramatically drive down his value and allow us to sign him for fairly cheaply   

I don't think 30 games and a playoff run will undo the reputation he has built for himself over the past three and a half years.

If he was here for a full season, maybe ... Although, I'd still expect him to get MLE money ($32-33mil over 5 years) in that scenario.

That's what I'm talking about.  Now to be sure, if he simply takes the QO next year and sticks around for a full season, he should see more than the 12 mpg or so backing up Pierce that he may be looking at right now.  However, even if he gets minutes at the 2, 3, and 4 (with Pierce playing the 2 when Green is in for Ray), I still don't see him getting anywhere close to his 37 mpg in OKC.  Similarly, with the shots other people get, I can't see him getting much more than 10-12 ppg tops. 

So while I agree that there's no way that people forget about his time in OKC, I do wonder how much a team is going to be willing to spend on a guy who averaged in the mid-to-high teens in OKC, then dropped to 10-12 ppg here.  Sure, it won't be his fault; however, is a team going to give big money to a guy like that?  I'm not so sure that some teams don't hesitate because of the numbers.  Of course it won't be fair to Green, but that's a different story. 

And by no means am I suggesting he signs for BBD money.  I'm simply suggesting that we might get him locked into a deal closer to what he's making now (say 5-7 million), than the 7-9 million some suggest. 

Or at the very least, he might want to sign a 1 year deal at something reasonable in the hopes of pushing up his value for the following year.  And that could pay off if in that one year deal (say at 6-7 million), we then landed a big FA.  We could then give him a raise the following year. 

[mgent]

With Pierce on the roster:  not worth the cap space.

I find all the posts about Green being the future hilarious.  We weren't gonna sign Perk what makes people think we're gonna mess up our 2012 free agency for this kid?

Pierce is 32, he's certainly not the future at this point. Green is 24, he's athletic and can run with Rondo. And newsflash, we're gonna need pieces in place to lure a big free agent in 2012 other than just Rondo.

Also, the main reason we weren't gonna sign Perk is because Danny's targeting Dwight Howard - a center - in 2012.

I don't think Jeff Green is talented enough to sway anyone into signing here.

(my expectations are for him to be a 12-14ppg scorer at SF with above average defense and solid rebounding)

AKA Paul Pierce.

Are you saying Green is the next Paul Pierce?

No I'm saying why use cap space on Green when we've already got Pierce who brings the same things to the table if not more, at the same position?

I've already said it, but maybe I should point it out again: Pierce is 32 and can't play forever. Rondo is 25 and the centerpiece of our future, Green is 24 and was brought here to compliment that future. This trade was just as much about right now as it is the future. Whether fans like it or not, it's clear that Ainge brought in Green to be Pierce's current backup and heir apparent.

What makes you think that is clear?  We have no reason to believe Danny will do anything beyond giving him the QO.

Personally I think it's clear that we have 3 positions to fill and spending 8+mil on a backup just because he is young and a closer age to Rondo is a dumb idea when Danny has worked hard to keep our cap space fully intact.  Especially when Pierce is perfectly capable of starting at SF on a championship team for at least a few more years.  If he was as old and washed up as you think Danny wouldn't have dished out the money to secure his future here.

I never said Pierce was "old and washed up". Don't put words in my mouth.

I really doubt DA resigned Pierce because he thinks he's gonna be a key part of the team when we make the transition the Rondo Era. Pierce will eventually become a 6th man - an expensive 6th man, but a 6th man nonetheless. As many other posters have stated, Green is exactly the piece you want to bring in to compliment Rondo down the line - young, athletic, potential-filled.

Then why does it matter that Pierce is 32 and Green is 24?  It doesn't matter how well Green compliments Rondo, Pierce is the better player and he's already under contract.  Green might be a nice piece but why waste the limited cap space we have on him?

Did you not anything I just wrote?

Note to moderators: I'm not insulting him. It's a legitimate question.

Yes and like I wrote, Green would be a good piece for the future if we didn't already have a more than capable SF and a limited amount of space to fill 3 positions.  Worry about replacing Pierce later on when he's actually old and we don't have way more pressing concerns.

[snively]

RJ, you have to understand that we likely won't have the flexibility to keep Pierce as an "expensive 6th man."  Unless you are confident we can replace Ray, KG and Shaq/JO on the cheap, you don't tie up a big chunk of precious cap space in a position you are already paying $15+ mil for.  Unless you want to fill out your starting line-up with the likes of Keith Bogans until Pierce retires.

[LooseCannon]

Glen Davis is currently scoring 11.6ppg in 29.3mpg.  I would expect Jeff Green to score no worse than around that rate.  I also expect him to be capable of getting 20-25mpg.  If Green is playing at least 25mpg as a combo forward off the bench next season, I think he may score enough to be in the discussion for Sixth Man of the Year.  That's his short-term upside.  Not saying he reaches it, but Green obviously has potential.

One other thing.  Green's career-high 3-pt shooting percentage is 38.9%.  It dropped to 20.4% this year.  Green has been the subject of trade rumors for a while because he was the most obvious trade asset that was least likely to be missed because his skill set clashed with Kevin Durant's (think how people predicted Dwayne Wade and LeBron James would clash in Miami due to their similarities).  Maybe Green was affected by trade rumors in the same way that Ray Allen was last season, and maybe he'll shoot better now.  Maybe.

And Green isn't a waste because he plays the same position as Paul Pierce.  Unlike other potential replacements for Marquis Daniels who were talked about, Green is actually a legitimate trade asset.

[droponov]

If Jeff Green is used as he was in Oklahoma - or playing any significant portion of minutes at the 4 - he isn't even worth the MLE. He's a mediocre player. A worse player than Big Baby Davis.

To be worth the type of contract he's going to ask, Green will need to be used differently - defending a different position and used offensively in
a) shooter off-the-ball, in cuts no spotting-up
b) post-ups
c) transition
almost exclusively while improving some aspects of his game.

[droponov]

Jeff Green's 3pt shooting percentage off-screens was above 50% last season. This season is substantially higher than spotting-up, again.

I have very clear ideas on how Doc must use Jeff Green - how his development as a player must be steered - to make him, no, to give him the chance of becoming an above average starter at the 3.

[RJ87]

RJ, you have to understand that we likely won't have the flexibility to keep Pierce as an "expensive 6th man."  Unless you are confident we can replace Ray, KG and Shaq/JO on the cheap, you don't tie up a big chunk of precious cap space in a position you are already paying $15+ mil for.  Unless you want to fill out your starting line-up with the likes of Keith Bogans until Pierce retires.

I'd be incredibly shocked if Danny doesn't match whatever off Green gets this offseason. It's just not logical for the C's to bring him in as a band aid for the rest of the season and then letting him walk. So yeah, when I look at the trade I think DA brought him with the idea that he could be a building block to go along with Rondo.

As far as precious cap, I believe we're going to push hard for Dwight Howard. Even if he does come here, we still have to put pieces around him and Rondo. If he doesn't come here, we still have to fill out our roster. I think Green is one of the better options out there for what we're capable of bring in right now.

[letsgoblue86]

I compare his talents to Marvin Williams. Williams contract is like 5 years for 35 million. He is always on the trade block and is always considered not to be living up to lofty expectations.

If we signed Jeff Green to 5 year for $35 million, I would not complain. But I don't think he'll ever live up to lofty expectation also.

Are you kidding?  Marvin Williams couldn't clean Jeff Green's shoes.  I live in ATL so i see him a lot, and trust me, his contract is terrible for what he brings.  The guy is extremely fragile, very inconsistent, and one-dimensional.  I would say his best asset is his ability to spread the floor with his outside jumper (even though he only shoots a career avg. of 30 percent downtown). 
Considering Williams is playing SF, his natural position he should be expected to put up bigger numbers, (especially without a legit superstar on the hawks) yet he's averaging 10 ppg.  While Jeff Green in OKC wasn't even playing his natural position AND had to get shots with the likes of Westbrook and Durant taking most of the shots.  Even with all that, he was averaging 16 ppg and way more rebounds than marvin.  Jeff Green is a completely better player than marvin williams and marvin's ludacris contract should not determine the contract Green deserves.

[snively]

RJ, you have to understand that we likely won't have the flexibility to keep Pierce as an "expensive 6th man."  Unless you are confident we can replace Ray, KG and Shaq/JO on the cheap, you don't tie up a big chunk of precious cap space in a position you are already paying $15+ mil for.  Unless you want to fill out your starting line-up with the likes of Keith Bogans until Pierce retires.

I'd be incredibly shocked if Danny doesn't match whatever off Green gets this offseason. It's just not logical for the C's to bring him in as a band aid for the rest of the season and then letting him walk. So yeah, when I look at the trade I think DA brought him with the idea that he could be a building block to go along with Rondo.

As far as precious cap, I believe we're going to push hard for Dwight Howard. Even if he does come here, we still have to put pieces around him and Rondo. If he doesn't come here, we still have to fill out our roster. I think Green is one of the better options out there for what we're capable of bring in right now.

The C's had 3 centers of equivalent value (all injury risks) and absolutely no one to back up Paul Pierce.  Trading Perk for a 3 is logical, as it's trading from abundance to address scarcity.  It will be just as logical if Green leaves in the offseason.  The need is primarily for this season.  As for next season, I think they'll try to get him to accept his QO to further evaluate him.  If someone comes offering a bunch of money, I think they'll let him go instead of matching, though I'm sure they will threaten a match to discourage any offers.

As for pursuing Howard and resigning Green's effect on that, let's assume for the sake of discussion that the cap stays at 58 mil in 2012.  We'll have Pierce and Rondo guaranteed almost 28 mil.  If we keep Bradley and our 2011 and 2012 draft picks, we'll be around 31-33 mil.  That leaves 25-27 mil to fill out the roster.  As it will probably take around 16 mil to fetch Howard that would leave us with 9-11 mil (or 14 if we ditched all our draft picks) to fill out the rest of the roster.  If we had Jeff Green at say 7 mil (what Marvin Williams is making this year), that would leave us with 2-4 mil (or 7 mil if we ditched all our picks).  Unless we really hit a home run with those draft picks, that would be all we'd have to fill our starting 2 and 4 spots. 

I guess we could beg and plead old Ray and KG to stay on for vet min contracts, play Green out of position at the 4 for a season and then next season buyout Pierce (he's only 5 mil guaranteed in 2013) or convince him to retire and go to Europe, and then use his money to add an impact 2 or 4 while moving Green back to the 3.  At that point you'd have about 37 mil wrapped up in the core of Rondo, Green and Howard with 20+ mil to spend.

[guava_wrench]

RJ, you have to understand that we likely won't have the flexibility to keep Pierce as an "expensive 6th man."  Unless you are confident we can replace Ray, KG and Shaq/JO on the cheap, you don't tie up a big chunk of precious cap space in a position you are already paying $15+ mil for.  Unless you want to fill out your starting line-up with the likes of Keith Bogans until Pierce retires.

I'd be incredibly shocked if Danny doesn't match whatever off Green gets this offseason. It's just not logical for the C's to bring him in as a band aid for the rest of the season and then letting him walk. So yeah, when I look at the trade I think DA brought him with the idea that he could be a building block to go along with Rondo.

As far as precious cap, I believe we're going to push hard for Dwight Howard. Even if he does come here, we still have to put pieces around him and Rondo. If he doesn't come here, we still have to fill out our roster. I think Green is one of the better options out there for what we're capable of bring in right now.

The C's had 3 centers of equivalent value (all injury risks) and absolutely no one to back up Paul Pierce.  Trading Perk for a 3 is logical, as it's trading from abundance to address scarcity.  It will be just as logical if Green leaves in the offseason.  The need is primarily for this season.  As for next season, I think they'll try to get him to accept his QO to further evaluate him.  If someone comes offering a bunch of money, I think they'll let him go instead of matching, though I'm sure they will threaten a match to discourage any offers.

As for pursuing Howard and resigning Green's effect on that, let's assume for the sake of discussion that the cap stays at 58 mil in 2012.  We'll have Pierce and Rondo guaranteed almost 28 mil.  If we keep Bradley and our 2011 and 2012 draft picks, we'll be around 31-33 mil.  That leaves 25-27 mil to fill out the roster.  As it will probably take around 16 mil to fetch Howard that would leave us with 9-11 mil (or 14 if we ditched all our draft picks) to fill out the rest of the roster.  If we had Jeff Green at say 7 mil (what Marvin Williams is making this year), that would leave us with 2-4 mil (or 7 mil if we ditched all our picks).  Unless we really hit a home run with those draft picks, that would be all we'd have to fill our starting 2 and 4 spots. 

I guess we could beg and plead old Ray and KG to stay on for vet min contracts, play Green out of position at the 4 for a season and then next season buyout Pierce (he's only 5 mil guaranteed in 2013) or convince him to retire and go to Europe, and then use his money to add an impact 2 or 4 while moving Green back to the 3.  At that point you'd have about 37 mil wrapped up in the core of Rondo, Green and Howard with 20+ mil to spend.

When your top 2 players are the best center in the league and a top PG with great passing skills, filling in other positions gets easy.

And it might take a year to fill the roster, like with Miami.

Anyway, I'm not concerned about much past winning this year.

[TheTruthFot18]

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2011/12/03/jeff_green_wants_long_term_deal_from_celtics/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+Boston+Celtics+news

Sorry If this was posted elsewhere, just came across it on my homepage.

I still think Green needs a full season here. And the big 3 aren't getting younger so this should be a big priority for Danny and Co.

[KGs Knee]

A 3 dollar bill.

Or a sign and trade for a 3 dollar bill to be used at a later date.

Jeff Green.  UGH!