IP Ranks Your 'Pick 2' Team By Division (All 6 Divs now in!)

[indeedproceed]

Southwest

San Antonio:
PG: Jason Kidd
SG: Manu Ginobili
SF: Rip Hamilton
PF: Chris Kaman
C: Tim Duncan

Sixth men: Al Harrington, Hakim Warrick,
Role Players: Brad Miller, Carlos Arroyo, Andres Nocioni,
Injured: Marquis Daniels, DeSagana Diop

Dallas:
PG: Jarret Jack
SG: Josh Childress
SF: Richard Jefferson
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Tyson Chandler

Sixth Man: Brandon Roy, Chris Andersen
Role Players: Tiago Splitter, Wes Johnson, Chris Duhon
Bench Warmers: Vladomir Radmonovic, Grevis Vasquez

New Orleans:
PG: Chris Paul
SG: Nick Young
SF: Wilson Chandler
PF: David West
C: Andris Biedrins

Sixth Men: Nazr Mohammed, Lou Williams, Anthony Parker
Role Players: Shelden Williams, Matt Bonner
Bench Warmers: Jamario Moon
Injured: Linas Kleiza

Memphis:
PG: Jose Calderon
SG: Luol Deng
SF: Rudy Gay
PF: Brandon Bass
C:Marc Gasol

Sixth Men: Eric Bledsoe, Courtney Lee, JaVale McGee
Role Players: Terrance Williams, Darrell Arthur
Bench Warmers: Louis Amindson

Houston :
PG: Tony Parker
SG: Kevin Martin
SF: Jonas Jerebko
PF: Luis Scola
C: Jason Thompson

Sixth Men: Brandon Jennings, Mehmet Okur (when healthy)
Role Players: Yi Jianlian, Sasha Vujacic, Andre Miller, Gerald Henderson
Injured: Kelenna Azubuike

Overall Record:
1)   San Antonio**
2)   Dallas**
3)   Memphis
4)   New Orleans
5)   Houston

Sigh…Memphis, NO, and Houston are going to kill me for this one, and they’re right. One of the three of them should be in the playoffs, but I already picked 6 teams, so I only get to pick 2 here. I’d love to see a battle royal between Minnesota, Memphis, Houston and New Orleans. They’re all good teams that deserve a shot.

Well, anyways. I had Dallas ranked first, but without Brandon Roy for significant (most) of the season, I don’t know how good they really are. They’re a middling 4 or 5 seed without Roy to provide the leadership, toughness, and grittiness he is capable of, and who knows just what he’s really gonna be giving for the rest of the season. Because of that, I went with the sure thing, despite not liking a lot of the guys on San Antonio’s squad. I don’t like Harrington, Warrick, or Nocioni at all in these roles. Look at the guys who succeed in San Antonio…DaJuan Blair, Matt Bonner, Robert Horry, Antonio McDyess…what do they all share? Stretch 4’s who are good team defenders that do not dominate the ball..with the exception of Blair, who is just a beast. None of San An’s bench or Kamans match that description..and Chris Kaman will miss half the season before its all said and done anyways. But, Tim Duncan led squads have not missed the playoffs in 13 straight seasons so…yeah. I’m not betting against them. Plus, with Manu Ginobli reprising his role, Jason Kidd adding a different (but for my money, effective) flavor, and Rip Hamilton going for a career resurgence..I just can’t say no to them.

Memphis to me is the most talented team in the division. They deserve a 4 seed in the East, and they ought to get a 6th seed or so in the West. I’m luke-warm on Calderon, and skeptical about Luol Deng, because I just have never really liked the guy as a player..but it works. Deng is capable of defending 3 positions, and so Is Rudy Gay..Jose Calderon I hope has enough left in the tank to make the right passes to take advantage of all of Memphis’s weapons.

New Orleans has the best point guard in the game…most nights. Lately, Chris Paul has been looking more and more ordinary..and without Paul, this team is pretty weak on both sides of the ball. Andris Biedrins and David West, or any combination of players really that patrol the post are not real defensive stalwarts, and if you can keep New Orleans in a half-court set without letting Paul dominate, they’re going to lose a fair amount of games. However, that road can go the other way too..if Paul is on his game, and his players are hitting their jumpers..Nick Young and Wilson Chandler are better offensive complements than Paul has had in years at the wing. Add in a stretch 4/5 in Matt Bonner to further clear the lane for CP3 and Wilson Chandler to work..and this team should surprise some good squads.

Houston doesn’t have a legitimate healthy center on its roster. That’s gotta be the starting point here. A heathy Mehmet Okur from a year and a half ago makes this team substantially different..it makes them a real dangerous team. But, while Jason Thompson is an okay stop measure for a poor team at the 5..for a team that wants to really do some damage I don’t think Thompson can anchor a defense. After the depressing situation in the paint though, things pick up.  Kevin Martin is a proven scorer (I tried to pry him loose from Houston myself, and it didn’t work out), Tony Parker is a winner and leader, and Luis Scola can only really be described as a ‘beast’.  However, Jonas Jerbko is not an option yet..(he’s out until at least March this season), and it looks like Houston would need to start Sasha Vujacic in some capacity when Jerbko is out.

Pick 2 Success
-I define Pick 2 Success as a strange mixture of how you compare to your original team, mixed with future outlook, and just how much I like how it fits together.

1)   Memphis
2)   Dallas
3)   New Orleans
4)   San Antonio
5)   Houston

Thoughts: Memphis replaced Mike Conley Jr with Jose Calderon (significant downgrade), Tony Allen with Luol Deng (significant upgrade), and Zach Randolph with Brandon Bass (a downgrade..but I wonder how much it will matter). That’s 2 downs to one up in the starting 5. The thing is, the keepers and Luol Deng have incredible potential. The way Marc Gasol is used now is the equivalent of using a BMW as a commuter car. Sure, its not a Rolls Royce or a Lamborghini..but its still a darn BMW! Marc Gasol can comfortably become a 16 or 17 ppg scorer without drastically changing the offense. Then, on the bench, they have a very solid 8 man rotation rounded out by Eric Bledsoe (change of pace guard), Courtney Lee (defensive 2 guard, which is good because both Deng/Gay can play the 3 or 2, so either one can rest), and improving young defensive presence JaVale McGee. This is a significant step forward because Memphis’s current bench is absolute garbage.

Dallas gets an A+ in my book too, because they took the biggest flaw in Dallas’s current roster (starting Shawn Marion at the 3 where Caron Butler once was) and puts an efficient, effective, true small forward next to Dirk. Jarret Jack is a different look than Jason Kidd, and probably a significantly worse one, but Richard Jefferson and the chance that Brandon Roy might be the greatest sixth man ever aside from Kevin McHale, that’s gotta mean something.

New Orleans I’m 50/50 on. I like 50% of the roster and I don’t so much like 50% of the roster. I like CP3, Wilson Chandler, and David West as starters, and I like Lou Williams, Nazr Mo, Matt Bonner, and Anthony Parker off the bench. Everyone else, I don’t like so much. In the starting rotation, Nick Young and Andris Biedrins get no love from me. Both players earlier in their careers looked like they might someday move forward into complete players, but ultimately it looks like that’s not going to be the case. I think both players will help in certain roles, but Nick Young is a black hole on offense and a sieve on defense while Andris Biedrins has been in the league 6 years, and still only manages to get 25 mins a night, where he’s achieving 4 fouls and 1 free throw attempted, despite being 7 feet tall and surrounded by shooters. The guy should have a free pass in the paint in Golden State (and if you’re wondering what centers can do there..look at guys like Anthony Tolliver or Anthony Randolph..there are inflated stats to be had). Off the bench, I don’t think Shelden Williams is not truly gifted enough to take advantage of CP3’s perks, and Nazr Mohammed is a good player on a bad team kinda guy. This team needs a more consistent big to anchor the defense if they’re next to David West, and they don’t got right now.

San Antonio tried to get back some of what they lost in Tony Parker, and Kidd is as good as they’re going to do, picking number 30 I guess (although I think they should’ve used their first round pick on a pg..perhaps Aaron Brooks? Kyle Lowry? Someone faster and younger than Kidd?). Can’t say I’m a fan of Chris Kaman as their 1st round pick, when guys like Ty Thomas, Serge Ibaka, even Jeff Green or Ryan Anderson make more sense next to Duncan. However, the foundation is sound the they didn’t really deviate from the plan..if 0 is average, -2 is bad and 2 is awesome, they get a .3…under the circumstances I think they stayed as close to the actual Spurs paradigm as you’re going to get.

Houston came close to something great here, and don’t let that thought slip by you. They started out with a core of Tony Parker, Kevin Martin, and Luis Scola. That’s a JaVale McGee or some other 7ft defensive menace away from sure fire playoff status. But, they kept going BPA, and didn’t like any of the deals they got their hands on. Brandon Jennings for 2(12) or whatever…definitely better than anything on the board, but he already had Tony Parker. Next, round, Andre Miller was the BPA, and rather than pass on Andre Miller, he took him and wanted to flip him later. Unfortunately, like a realtor in 2009, (too soon?) Champ got stuck with a bunch of assets he didn’t want or need, and a team with huge holes. Jerebko is out for the year nearly after a pre-seaosn injury (and he’s better as a 4 anyways) and lo and behold, he’s starting Gerald Hendersen or Sasha Vujacic.

[slamtheking]

Dallas runs away with the Southwest.  No competition. 

How so? 

The only starting spot where Dallas is better than SA is at PF with Dirk.  Other than that, SA is better at every other position.

SA's bench is also significantly better. 

[indeedproceed]

Dallas runs away with the Southwest.  No competition. 

How so? 

The only starting spot where Dallas is better than SA is at PF with Dirk.  Other than that, SA is better at every other position.

SA's bench is also significantly better. 

That's not 100% true. Dallas has better big men on their bench than San An has, they have a better overall frontcourt, and if you're discounting Brandon Roy from Dallas's bench, you should be discounting Chris Kaman from your own.

With a healthy Brandon Roy, I think Dallas does run away with the division. Without him, I take the Big Fundamental..but not by much.

[Chris]

Dallas runs away with the Southwest.  No competition. 

How so? 

The only starting spot where Dallas is better than SA is at PF with Dirk.  Other than that, SA is better at every other position.

SA's bench is also significantly better. 

I think Dirk and Chandler is significantly better than Duncan and Kaman.  

Kidd is better than Jack, but not that much, and since Jack will be playing off the ball most often with the offense running through Dirk, Roy, and Childress, it negates that a bit.

Jefferson is a much better SF than Rip Hamilton, and can take him down in the post.  

And while Manu is a better player than Childress, Josh's defense, along with Chandler protecting the basket should be able to keep him in check.

Honestly, I am just not a huge fan of San Antonio.  I think they are really missing the quicker guard to get inside defenses and open things up, and Duncan and Kaman are going to have a lot of trouble keeping up with more athletic big men (not to mention Kaman is nearly as injury prone as Roy), and other than Diop (who is a horrendous offensive player), and Daniels (who may not ever play again), the bench is filled with some of the worst defenders in the league.

[KCattheStripe]

Good right up IP and a fair assessment of the Grizz, although I do think we're a playoff team. But I think you're right in that we improved the team oth now and over the long haul. For example, this team is better equipped to deal without Rudy for 4 weeks than the current Grizz are.

[Chris]

Dallas runs away with the Southwest.  No competition. 

How so? 

The only starting spot where Dallas is better than SA is at PF with Dirk.  Other than that, SA is better at every other position.

SA's bench is also significantly better. 

That's not 100% true. Dallas has better big men on their bench than San An has, they have a better overall frontcourt, and if you're discounting Brandon Roy from Dallas's bench, you should be discounting Chris Kaman from your own.

With a healthy Brandon Roy, I think Dallas does run away with the division. Without him, I take the Big Fundamental..but not by much.

How about split the difference.  What do you think if Roy is at 80% and playing 20-25 minutes per game.  Because I think that is what we are going to see from the rest of his career.  

[slamtheking]

San Antonio tried to get back some of what they lost in Tony Parker, and Kidd is as good as they’re going to do, picking number 30 I guess (although I think they should’ve used their first round pick on a pg..perhaps Aaron Brooks? Kyle Lowry? Someone faster and younger than Kidd?). Can’t say I’m a fan of Chris Kaman as their 1st round pick, when guys like Ty Thomas, Serge Ibaka, even Jeff Green or Ryan Anderson make more sense next to Duncan. However, the foundation is sound the they didn’t really deviate from the plan..if 0 is average, -2 is bad and 2 is awesome, they get a .3…under the circumstances I think they stayed as close to the actual Spurs paradigm as you’re going to get.

Fair enough assessment IP.  I understand your viewpoint, I don't necessarily agree with it regarding who was a better option but I understand it.

For my money (and it was in this draft because god knows I spent a LOT of it ) Kidd and Kaman are sure-fire players that will produce pretty consistantly every night and have the experience factor I felt was needed for this team.  Kaman, to me, brings more to the table overall than Ty, Ibaka or Green.  They're just too inconsistant particularly on offense. 

Brooks is certainly a solid option with a good track record but considering I didn't have a good option as a starting SF, I needed other starters that were good rebounders and Kidd definitely provides that at the PG spot.  Kidd can produce a triple double on any night even at his age --- something Brooks isn't going to do.  Lowry hasn't produced at a high enough level for a long enough time for me to justify taking him over Kidd or Kaman in the first round.

If a one or two of the deals I was working on went through, it would have changed my draft style by either getting that real starting SF I needed or getting higher in the draft to pick one myself.  The deals didn't come to pass so I filled in the spot as best I could.

The results are a team that isn't as good as the current product but when that product has the best record in the league, I've only got one direction to go and that's down.  In that light, I think I did a respectable job (.3? I think a 1 for sure  )

[indeedproceed]

Dallas runs away with the Southwest.  No competition. 

How so? 

The only starting spot where Dallas is better than SA is at PF with Dirk.  Other than that, SA is better at every other position.

SA's bench is also significantly better. 

That's not 100% true. Dallas has better big men on their bench than San An has, they have a better overall frontcourt, and if you're discounting Brandon Roy from Dallas's bench, you should be discounting Chris Kaman from your own.

With a healthy Brandon Roy, I think Dallas does run away with the division. Without him, I take the Big Fundamental..but not by much.

How about split the difference.  What do you think if Roy is at 80% and playing 20-25 minutes per game.  Because I think that is what we are going to see from the rest of his career. 

Well there are two differences..notice I took Dallas over San An in the pick 2 success. THat's because I have hope Brandon Roy can be a heck of a player still. But this season, I'll be surprised if we see him play well at all...and this comment:

And while Manu is a better player than Childress, Josh's defense, along with Chandler protecting the basket should be able to keep him in check.

doesn't jive with me. I don't think Childress is that good defensively to check Manu, and while Tyson Chandler is really, really solid..he's not good enough to guard Tim Duncan and help on Manu at the same time.

[Chris]

And while Manu is a better player than Childress, Josh's defense, along with Chandler protecting the basket should be able to keep him in check.

doesn't jive with me. I don't think Childress is that good defensively to check Manu, and while Tyson Chandler is really, really solid..he's not good enough to guard Tim Duncan and help on Manu at the same time.

Fair enough.  But if it basically comes down to a shootout between Dirk and Manu, I take Dirk.  While Childress can't stop Manu, he is no worse a matchup there than Duncan or Kaman are on Dirk.  Plus, I can always switch Jefferson onto Manu, and let Childress run around picks and use his length to bother Rip. 

I just don't think the perimeter combination of Manu/Kidd/Rip is enough better than Jefferson/Jack/Childress, to make up the difference up front between Dirk/Chandler over Duncan/Kaman, and the significant advantages off the bench.

[KCattheStripe]

What's this about Perimeter Play?

[Roy H.]

I haven't really analyzed the entire West, but I'd be surprised if Memphis wasn't a playoff team.  I guess it comes down to what people think of Deng. 

I've seen at least a couple comments along the lines of "I've never liked Deng's game", which I thought was surprising.  The guy is an elite defensive three who is also a very good scorer.  Really, the only thing that keeps him from being a star is his lack of range (which he has improved this year).  He's not a superstar, but he is a very, very good two way player.

I go back and forth on Dallas vs. San Antonio (assuming that Roy struggles).  I'm not a huge Childress fan, and I have some doubts about Jack as a full-time starter.  At the same time, I hate Al Harrington, and I don't think a Duncan / Kaman combo can cut it against most athletic teams.  Plus, I'm not a fan of Rip at the 3.

Both are very good squads, and definitely both playoff teams.  I'd give the edge to Dallas, I guess, just because I like how their pieces fit together more so than I do with San Antonio.

At the bottom of the division, but still pretty good teams, are New Orleans and Houston.  I think Houston gets hurt by not moving one of its many point guards; I know there was a lot of interest in Terry, for instance, and there was probably some value to be had there.  New Orleans is the team that could surprise, if only because they have the most elite superstar in the division.  If Biedrins shows up at all, they could make the playoffs.

[indeedproceed]

memphis should absolutely make the playoffs....i dunno who id kick out

[Chris]

What's this about Perimeter Play?

Love the talent, hate the fit.  While I think Deng and Gay can play with each other, I think it will make them less effective players.  

I think it just makes the team unbalanced, and you would have been better off trying to turn one of those guys into a stronger front-court player.  Gasol, Bass, and McGee are all decent players, but none of them can really dominate inside the way you would like for a team trying to make noise in the playoffs.  

To me, it just comes across as more of a keepers league fantasy team, than a real winning basketball team.  

[The Walker Wiggle]

Houston came close to something great here, and don’t let that thought slip by you. They started out with a core of Tony Parker, Kevin Martin, and Luis Scola. That’s a JaVale McGee or some other 7ft defensive menace away from sure fire playoff status. But, they kept going BPA, and didn’t like any of the deals they got their hands on. Brandon Jennings for 2(12) or whatever…definitely better than anything on the board, but he already had Tony Parker. Next, round, Andre Miller was the BPA, and rather than pass on Andre Miller, he took him and wanted to flip him later. Unfortunately, like a realtor in 2009, (too soon?) Champ got stuck with a bunch of assets he didn’t want or need, and a team with huge holes. Jerebko is out for the year nearly after a pre-seaosn injury (and he’s better as a 4 anyways) and lo and behold, he’s starting Gerald Hendersen or Sasha Vujacic.

Houston has to start Martin at the small forward and then Parker at the shooting guard, there just isn't any way around it. Martin lacks the strength or length to defend the 3, but at least the move gets Houston's five most talented players out on the court together and somewhat alleviates the lack of frontcourt depth. And the actual Spurs have had success with a two point guard - Parker and Hill - line-up. (I do acknowledge the sheer bravado in making the team's first two small forwards drafted both players who are potentially done for the season...)

Luis Scola/ Yi Jianlian
Kevin Martin/ Gerald Henderson
Jason Thompson/ Mehmet Okur
Tony Parker/ Sasha Vujacic
Brandon Jennings/ Andre Miller

Houston struggles defensively at the 2,3 and 5, but conversely runs a high octane offense, and wins some games through a sheer talent advantage. Though it doesn't help that the team's only healthy reserve big man, Yi isn't the sort of power forward that will pick up any of the slack defensively or on the glass. Scola finds himself in Iverson territory. Can he play 45?

[ChampKind]

Houston came close to something great here, and don’t let that thought slip by you. They started out with a core of Tony Parker, Kevin Martin, and Luis Scola. That’s a JaVale McGee or some other 7ft defensive menace away from sure fire playoff status. But, they kept going BPA, and didn’t like any of the deals they got their hands on. Brandon Jennings for 2(12) or whatever…definitely better than anything on the board, but he already had Tony Parker. Next, round, Andre Miller was the BPA, and rather than pass on Andre Miller, he took him and wanted to flip him later. Unfortunately, like a realtor in 2009, (too soon?) Champ got stuck with a bunch of assets he didn’t want or need, and a team with huge holes. Jerebko is out for the year nearly after a pre-seaosn injury (and he’s better as a 4 anyways) and lo and behold, he’s starting Gerald Hendersen or Sasha Vujacic.

Houston has to start Martin at the small forward and then Parker at the shooting guard, there just isn't any way around it. Martin lacks the strength or length to defend the 3, but at least the move gets Houston's five most talented players out on the court together and somewhat alleviates the lack of frontcourt depth. And the actual Spurs have had success with a two point guard - Parker and Hill - line-up.

Luis Scola/ Yi Jianlian
Kevin Martin/ Gerald Henderson
Jason Thompson/ Mehmet Okur
Tony Parker/ Sasha Vujacic
Brandon Jennings/ Andre Miller

Houston struggles defensively at the 2,3 and 5, but conversely runs a high octane offense, and wins some games through a sheer talent advantage. Though it doesn't help that the team's only healthy reserve big man, Yi isn't the sort of power forward that will pick up any of the slack defensively or on the glass. Scola finds himself in Iverson territory. Can he play 45?

I was thinking

Parker
Jennings
Miller
Martin
Scola

and just telling our fans to "suck it" while our 3-PG starting lineup loses every game 160-155 on the season.

Yeah, things might not have gone as planned there...