How is my Pick 2 team?

[Who]

Boston:

PG: Rajon Rondo,
SG: Martell Webster
SF: Andre Kirelenko
PF: Kevin Garnett
C: Robin Lopez

Sixth Men: Rodrique Beaubois (G), Ryan Gomes (F)
Role Players: Zydrunas Ilgauskus (C), Shannon Brown(G), Jason Maxiell(PF/C)
Bench Warmers: Kenyon Dooling(PG), Cartier Martin(G/F)

I would like to see the Boston Celtics lineup like so ...

Starting Lineup

PG - Rajon Rondo
OG - Shannon Brown
SF - Martell Webster
PF - Andrei Kirilenko
C - Kevin Garnett

Rotation

G - Roddy Beaubois
F - Ryan Gomes
F - Jason Maxiell
C - Robin Lopez

Situational Subs

3rd string PG - Keyon Dooling
5th wing - Cartier Martin
5th big man - Zydrunas Ilgauskas

-----------------------------------------------

I think that lineup gives that team it's best balance of team offense, team defense and rebounding.

The change, going small, gives Boston regular matchup advantages at both big man positions and at the PG spot with two very effective shooters who are both plus athletes who can run the floor. It'll be a very difficult offense to stop.

Defensively, you play with quickness. Similar to how the Phoenix Suns would have played with KG at center instead of Amare and with Rondo instead of Nash. Kirilenko is their Shawn Marion. Webster gives them a very good wing defender. Shannon Brown is a decent defender at the two albeit a bit undersized. Kirilenko and Garnett give the team good shot-blocking and excellent all-around help defense.

I feel bad leaving Big Z out of the rotation but he doesn't really fit in with this plan. If the C's stay big, I'd start Big Z and move Robin Lopez to the bench.

Shannon Brown needs to play alongside Roddy Beaubois while Rajon Rondo rests. Neither player has strong enough PG instincts, be it playmaking or floor leadership, to play by themselves out there.

[StartOrien]

I'd rank the Atlantic Division:

New York
------
Boston
------
New Jersey
Philadelphia

Could definitely flip-flop Philly and New Jersey, but I think New Jersey's got the better bench this year. I also think the standings in this division flip in about two seasons w/ New Jersey & Philly competing for top spot (I'd lean towards the Nets taking over but I'm a big Favors guy).

[Roy H.]

I'd rank the Atlantic Division:

New York
------
Boston
------
New Jersey
Philadelphia

Could definitely flip-flop Philly and New Jersey, but I think New Jersey's got the better bench this year. I also think the standings in this division flip in about two seasons w/ New Jersey & Philly competing for top spot (I'd lean towards the Nets taking over but I'm a big Favors guy).

Yeah, I think I agree with your current rankings.  Regarding the future, Philly and NJ should both have bright ones, but don't discount New York.  Their front court is still very young, and NY will always be a premier free agent destination to fill in the back court.  Amare / Hibbert / Gallinari should remain a force to be reckoned with into the future.

[Rondo2287]

I'd rank the Atlantic Division:

New York
------
Boston
------
New Jersey
Philadelphia

Could definitely flip-flop Philly and New Jersey, but I think New Jersey's got the better bench this year. I also think the standings in this division flip in about two seasons w/ New Jersey & Philly competing for top spot (I'd lean towards the Nets taking over but I'm a big Favors guy).

Yeah, I think I agree with your current rankings.  Regarding the future, Philly and NJ should both have bright ones, but don't discount New York.  Their front court is still very young, and NY will always be a premier free agent destination to fill in the back court.  Amare / Hibbert / Gallinari should remain a force to be reckoned with into the future.

I would have Boston ahead of NY. If Boston uses the linup that Who suggests there is no way that Hibbert can be effective.  He isnt a serious threat on the offensive end and there is no way he could stay with KG or AK47.  That means NY has to go Galinari at the 4 and Amare at the 5 forcing Buddinger to play serious minutes. 

Also, when you take Hibbert out of the game and have Amare guarding KG on the perimeter there is no big man to limit Rondo's penetration.

[Roy H.]

I'd rank the Atlantic Division:

New York
------
Boston
------
New Jersey
Philadelphia

Could definitely flip-flop Philly and New Jersey, but I think New Jersey's got the better bench this year. I also think the standings in this division flip in about two seasons w/ New Jersey & Philly competing for top spot (I'd lean towards the Nets taking over but I'm a big Favors guy).

Yeah, I think I agree with your current rankings.  Regarding the future, Philly and NJ should both have bright ones, but don't discount New York.  Their front court is still very young, and NY will always be a premier free agent destination to fill in the back court.  Amare / Hibbert / Gallinari should remain a force to be reckoned with into the future.

I would have Boston ahead of NY. If Boston uses the linup that Who suggests there is no way that Hibbert can be effective.  He isnt a serious threat on the offensive end and there is no way he could stay with KG or AK47.  That means NY has to go Galinari at the 4 and Amare at the 5 forcing Buddinger to play serious minutes.  

Also, when you take Hibbert out of the game and have Amare guarding KG on the perimeter there is no big man to limit Rondo's penetration.

I don't understand the fantasy of playing KG at center.  I love the guy, and he is an elite defender:  as a power forward.  He struggles against stronger players, and he himself has mentioned how little he likes playing center.  It's why we use BBD, rather than KG, to cover centers when both are on the court.  

Also, AK47 -- while a good defender -- just isn't a good enough rebounder to be a full-time starter.  Also, for whatever it's worth, he's no match for elite PFs, like Amare.

I agree with IP:  Boston just doesn't have the scoring punch to hang with NY, and I think that the defense would really struggle as soon as you start playing guys like KG outside of their comfort zone.

EDIT:  In a year where our center position has been decimated by injuries, KG has played 1% of our total minutes at the position (as opposed to 49% of total minutes at PF.)

[fairweatherfan]

1) Philadelphia
2) New Jersey
3) New York
4) Boston

Reasoning: Philadelphia to me takes this honor home because they just completely committed to it. They had Andre Igouadala as their centerpiece, and a bloated contract in Elton Brand, that just wasn't working. Plus, their wings and back-court lacked direction, and they were starting Spencer Hawes. Philadelphia pretty much just blew it up. They kept Iggy and Holiday, but quickly turned Iggy into Reke, and also managed to pickup Evan Turner along the way. They went from a middling team that was probably a first round out without a true first option, to a rebuilding team that gets a lot better next year without any other improvements beyond Varejao coming back and Turner/Evans/Holiday getting better. On top of that, Philadephia also has Eddy Curry's contract, which as a savvy GM they would at least be able to turn into draft picks or useful players in a real NBA environment.

Thanks for the kind words IP...I like what I've done with this Philly team although potential comes a lot cheaper than success in the NBA.  But I think this core could go places and the Sixers are clearly in a better position than the real NBA.

[StartOrien]

Amare / Hibbert / Gallinari should remain a force to be reckoned with into the future.

I definitely wouldn't discount them, Amare's a superduperstar and if nothing else the Knicks have two giants in their front court. I guess I'm just not all that high on Gallo or Hibbert - I'd project Favors, Lopez, Gordon, and E. Davis over both of them in three years.

Still, you're right to correct me - I didn't mean to completely dismiss the Knicks future. I'd guess that in three years this is how the teams would rank out:

New Jersey
----
New York
Philly
----
Boston

[Rondo2287]

I'd rank the Atlantic Division:

New York
------
Boston
------
New Jersey
Philadelphia

Could definitely flip-flop Philly and New Jersey, but I think New Jersey's got the better bench this year. I also think the standings in this division flip in about two seasons w/ New Jersey & Philly competing for top spot (I'd lean towards the Nets taking over but I'm a big Favors guy).

Yeah, I think I agree with your current rankings.  Regarding the future, Philly and NJ should both have bright ones, but don't discount New York.  Their front court is still very young, and NY will always be a premier free agent destination to fill in the back court.  Amare / Hibbert / Gallinari should remain a force to be reckoned with into the future.

I would have Boston ahead of NY. If Boston uses the linup that Who suggests there is no way that Hibbert can be effective.  He isnt a serious threat on the offensive end and there is no way he could stay with KG or AK47.  That means NY has to go Galinari at the 4 and Amare at the 5 forcing Buddinger to play serious minutes.  

Also, when you take Hibbert out of the game and have Amare guarding KG on the perimeter there is no big man to limit Rondo's penetration.

I don't understand the fantasy of playing KG at center.  I love the guy, and he is an elite defender:  as a power forward.  He struggles against stronger players, and he himself has mentioned how little he likes playing center.  It's why we use BBD, rather than KG, to cover centers when both are on the court.  

Also, AK47 -- while a good defender -- just isn't a good enough rebounder to be a full-time starter.  Also, for whatever it's worth, he's no match for elite PFs, like Amare.

I agree with IP:  Boston just doesn't have the scoring punch to hang with NY, and I think that the defense would really struggle as soon as you start playing guys like KG outside of their comfort zone.

EDIT:  In a year where our center position has been decimated by injuries, KG has played 1% of our total minutes at the position (as opposed to 49% of total minutes at PF.)

This isnt in general, this is talking about this matchup with NY.  Is hibbert offensively good enough to take advantage of his strength against KG?  I dont think so.  Can Hibbert cover either KG or AK on defense?  again i dont think so.  Which means NY would have to adjust shifting amare to the 5 and galo to the 4.

[slamtheking]

IP Ranks Your Teams By Division!

Atlantic

Boston:

PG: Rajon Rondo,
SG: Martell Webster
SF: Andre Kirelenko
PF: Kevin Garnett
C: Robin Lopez

Sixth Men: Rodrique Beaubois (G), Ryan Gomes (F)
Role Players: Zydrunas Ilgauskus (C), Shannon Brown(G), Jason Maxiell(PF/C)
Bench Warmers: Kenyon Dooling(PG), Cartier Martin(G/F)

New York:

PG: Ridnour
SG: Ray Allen
SF: Danillo Gallinari
PF: Amar’e Stoudemire
C: Roy Hibbert

Sixth Men: Delonte West (G), Chase Budinger (F), Joel Anthony (F/C),
Role Players: Beano Udrih (G), Keith Bogans (G/F), Chris Wilcox (F/C),
Bench Warmer: Nikola Pekovic.(C)

Philadelphia:

PG: Jrue Holiday
SG: Tyreke Evans
SF: Marvin Williams
PF: Lamar “Khloe” Odom
C: Kwame Brown

Sixth Men: Tony Allen, Zaza Pachulia
Role Players: Evan Turner, Eric Maynor,  Ed Davis
Not Impacting This Season: Andersen Varejao, Eddy Curry’s Expiring Contract

New Jersey:

PG: Aaron Brooks
SG: Eric Gordon
SF: Shane Battier
PF: Derrick Favors
C: Brook Lopez

Sixth Men: Rudy Fernandez, Carl Landry, Kurt "Big Sexy" Thomas
Role Players: Nate Robinson, Brian Cardinal, Gary Forbes
Overseas: Ricky Rubio

Overall records
Atlantic:

1st: New York**
2nd: Boston**
3rd: New Jersey
4th: Philadelphia
**-Playoff team

Reasoning: New York and Boston to me were very close. Where New York excelled in scoring, Boston excelled in defensive potential. The problem was that Boston’s best scorer (Beaubois) is coming off the bench in the same position as their strongest player (Rondo). I think Boston and New York both make the playoffs, but Boston will sqweak in as a 5th seed or worse, while NY will win the division, although their records won’t be all that different.

I ranked New Jersey above Philadelphia because I feel better about trusting a starting five where the worst player in the lineup was unpredictable but exciting rookie Derrick Favors (with Carl Landry behind him) more than I liked a starting 5 with the worst player being Kwame Brown.

I also just don’t know how much I trust any lineup that features Tyreke Evans as the premier scorer and defacto leader. I think this Philadelphia team is going places, and could very well leapfrog both Boston and NJ after Varejao returns to anchor the defense, and Turner/Evans get their bearings/mature, but this season I think they’re biding time.


Pick 2 Success:
I define 'Pick 2 Success' as taking a team that is currently constituted, but then pushing it further along the direction that bests suits it. Obviously everyone's preference is to win now, but that's just not a possibility for everyone.

1) Philadelphia
2) New Jersey
3) New York
4) Boston

Reasoning: Philadelphia to me takes this honor home because they just completely committed to it. They had Andre Igouadala as their centerpiece, and a bloated contract in Elton Brand, that just wasn't working. Plus, their wings and back-court lacked direction, and they were starting Spencer Hawes. Philadelphia pretty much just blew it up. They kept Iggy and Holiday, but quickly turned Iggy into Reke, and also managed to pickup Evan Turner along the way. They went from a middling team that was probably a first round out without a true first option, to a rebuilding team that gets a lot better next year without any other improvements beyond Varejao coming back and Turner/Evans/Holiday getting better. On top of that, Philadephia also has Eddy Curry's contract, which as a savvy GM they would at least be able to turn into draft picks or useful players in a real NBA environment.

New Jersey is basically an improved version of their current squad. Eric Gordon is a clear and huge upgrade at the 2, while Carl Landry off the bench is at least as good or better than Kris Humphries. But, while Aaron Brooks is a good player, he is not a real facilitator on offense, and for my money, is a downgrade on Devin Harris who would've fit this squad's MO a little better. The good news though is that Aaron Brooks will be the scoring punch NJ will need to take some pressure off of Eric Gordon. I don't think they're a playoff team now, but I do think that with a pass first point guard, they might be..which they will get in Ricky Rubio in 2 or 3 years..realistically whenever they move to Brooklyn.

New York and Boston both faced a clear uphill battle. New York's road was a little less tough than Boston's, because the pick 2 draft rewards teams who have 1 or two elite players, as opposed to 4 excellent players, as Boston has.

Both teams tried to replicate their actual teams' MO's, with defense first in Boston, and scoring first in New York, but ultimately both teams fell a little short. Boston missed out on a premier scorer to replace Paul Pierce and/or Ray Allen, while NY missed out on an effective and versatile PG to replace Felton, and a versatile true swingman to score a bit and take the pressure off of Amar'e (for NY it is Wilson Chandler and Landry Fields. I love the Ray Allen pickup for New York, and I want to like Roy Hibbert too, but I don't think the two of them will have the dynamic effect Edgar is hoping for, because the defense will be very vulnerable. In Boston, I love pickups like Beaubois and AK-47, but without a premier scorer anywhere on the roster, or even really reliable shooters to space the paint, I think Boston will have some serious issues, and will fall the most from where it currently sits.

Nice write up IP.  would really like to see your take on the other divisions as well.

[StartOrien]

I don't understand the fantasy of playing KG at center.  I love the guy, and he is an elite defender:  as a power forward.  He struggles against stronger players, and he himself has mentioned how little he likes playing center.  It's why we use BBD, rather than KG, to cover centers when both are on the court.  

I think the reason Who did this was to allow for some more scoring out of Boston's starting lineup, which is a pretty legit concern.

[Roy H.]

I don't understand the fantasy of playing KG at center.  I love the guy, and he is an elite defender:  as a power forward.  He struggles against stronger players, and he himself has mentioned how little he likes playing center.  It's why we use BBD, rather than KG, to cover centers when both are on the court.  

I think the reason Who did this was to allow for some more scoring out of Boston's starting lineup, which is a pretty legit concern.

Oh, definitely.  The problem is that KG can't play the position.  What you're gaining in offense is more than made up for in the loss of KG's elite defense (which, when at center, moves into the "good" range.)

From what I've seen with my own eyes, from what KG has said himself, and from Doc's actions, I'm extremely skeptical that KG could ever be a full-time center.

[StartOrien]

I don't understand the fantasy of playing KG at center.  I love the guy, and he is an elite defender:  as a power forward.  He struggles against stronger players, and he himself has mentioned how little he likes playing center.  It's why we use BBD, rather than KG, to cover centers when both are on the court.  

I think the reason Who did this was to allow for some more scoring out of Boston's starting lineup, which is a pretty legit concern.

Oh, definitely.  The problem is that KG can't play the position.  What you're gaining in offense is more than made up for in the loss of KG's elite defense (which, when at center, moves into the "good" range.)

From what I've seen with my own eyes, from what KG has said himself, and from Doc's actions, I'm extremely skeptical that KG could ever be a full-time center.

I don't know - I think he'd still be pretty good. The only real issue I'd see is that he'd have to spend more time on the block, and therefore less time  being able to defend pick & rolls. But as far as being able to do it, I'd assume he'd still be a top ten defensive big. Can't think of many centers out there that'd really be able to take advantage of the matchup.

[indeedproceed]

im working on the southeast ranking today.

[Fafnir]

I'd rank the Atlantic Division:

New York
------
Boston
------
New Jersey
Philadelphia

Could definitely flip-flop Philly and New Jersey, but I think New Jersey's got the better bench this year. I also think the standings in this division flip in about two seasons w/ New Jersey & Philly competing for top spot (I'd lean towards the Nets taking over but I'm a big Favors guy).

Yeah, I think I agree with your current rankings.  Regarding the future, Philly and NJ should both have bright ones, but don't discount New York.  Their front court is still very young, and NY will always be a premier free agent destination to fill in the back court.  Amare / Hibbert / Gallinari should remain a force to be reckoned with into the future.

I would have Boston ahead of NY. If Boston uses the linup that Who suggests there is no way that Hibbert can be effective.  He isnt a serious threat on the offensive end and there is no way he could stay with KG or AK47.  That means NY has to go Galinari at the 4 and Amare at the 5 forcing Buddinger to play serious minutes.  

Also, when you take Hibbert out of the game and have Amare guarding KG on the perimeter there is no big man to limit Rondo's penetration.

I don't understand the fantasy of playing KG at center.  I love the guy, and he is an elite defender:  as a power forward.  He struggles against stronger players, and he himself has mentioned how little he likes playing center.  It's why we use BBD, rather than KG, to cover centers when both are on the court.  

Also, AK47 -- while a good defender -- just isn't a good enough rebounder to be a full-time starter.  Also, for whatever it's worth, he's no match for elite PFs, like Amare.

I agree with IP:  Boston just doesn't have the scoring punch to hang with NY, and I think that the defense would really struggle as soon as you start playing guys like KG outside of their comfort zone.

EDIT:  In a year where our center position has been decimated by injuries, KG has played 1% of our total minutes at the position (as opposed to 49% of total minutes at PF.)

If Amar'e can play C, then KG can play C.

Will it cost the C's some easy buckets and other problems match up wise, sure. But it can be done.

I mean do you think Robin Lopez can defend any better than KG?

[Who]

This isnt in general, this is talking about this matchup with NY.  Is hibbert offensively good enough to take advantage of his strength against KG?  I dont think so.  Can Hibbert cover either KG or AK on defense?  again i dont think so.  Which means NY would have to adjust shifting amare to the 5 and galo to the 4.

Personally, I think Roy Hibbert is only a consistently effective go-to scorer when he has a mis-match against a smaller player which he would have with KG on him defensively ... but I agree there is absolutely no way that Hibbert can guard Garnett in the other end or provide adequate team defense while defending KG leaving the paint wide open to Rajon Rondo's penetration.

Either way, keep Hibbert in the lineup or bench him, NY lose against that Boston lineup.

Boston can also bring Robin Lopez into the lineup instead of Kirilenko when it creates or eliminates specific matchup issues. But they'd need to keep their two shooters on the wing + KG out there to allow Rondo room to create because they would become even more dependent on Rondo's playmaking to create high percentage shots.

If Boston plays a smaller lineup, they are by far the best team in this division.