How is my Pick 2 team?

[indeedproceed]

I don't quite understand how Charlotte would be ahead of TheWiz with the best two players on there having what I would call down years.

I think you can easily swap around the two teams..I think their records will be very close, but I think Gerald Wallace has shown his ability to be a leader on a poor team better than Chris Bosh has..but to be honest, both teams utter lack of any real interior defense just made me think they'd be about equal.

Gerald Wallace and Bosh being equal players, huh? Charlotte hasn't won a playoff game with Gerald Wallace, and only made the playoffs as a lower seed after Stephen Jackson came to town.

Bosh made the playoffs twice and actually won a few games.

In literally two of the worst seasons the east has ever seen.

Neither player is a true leader or star..can't they both be pretty?

Yeah I don't think they're equivalent, especially when Wallace has only had one all-star caliber year, compared to Bosh's 6 such season.

The idea that Wallace is a better player to build a "bad" team around baffles me honestly. I'm not sure where you draw that conclusion, unless you've suddenly become a Dave Berri fan IP.

I don't think either guy is a good team to build a team around.

But, when I was doing up my writeups (you know..the only guy stupid enough to waste an hour of my life and put some real effort into talking about this thing), I decided I'd rather go with the team starting 4 reliable vets to win 35 games over the team starting a rookie at the point and a small forward out of position to win 34 games.

But, like I said, I'm not married to that notion. My main point was that neither Was or Char are ready yet.

[Rondo2287]

I don't quite understand how Charlotte would be ahead of TheWiz with the best two players on there having what I would call down years.

I think you can easily swap around the two teams..I think their records will be very close, but I think Gerald Wallace has shown his ability to be a leader on a poor team better than Chris Bosh has..but to be honest, both teams utter lack of any real interior defense just made me think they'd be about equal.

Gerald Wallace and Bosh being equal players, huh? Charlotte hasn't won a playoff game with Gerald Wallace, and only made the playoffs as a lower seed after Stephen Jackson came to town.

Bosh made the playoffs twice and actually won a few games.

In literally two of the worst seasons the east has ever seen.

Neither player is a true leader or star..can't they both be pretty?

Yeah I don't think they're equivalent, especially when Wallace has only had one all-star caliber year, compared to Bosh's 6 such season.

The idea that Wallace is a better player to build a "bad" team around baffles me honestly. I'm not sure where you draw that conclusion, unless you've suddenly become a Dave Berri fan IP.

I don't think either guy is a good team to build a team around.

But, when I was doing up my writeups (you know..the only guy stupid enough to waste an hour of my life and put some real effort into talking about this thing), I decided I'd rather go with the team starting 4 reliable vets to win 35 games over the team starting a rookie at the point and a small forward out of position to win 34 games.

But, like I said, I'm not married to that notion. My main point was that neither Was or Char are ready yet.

Finally somebody backs me up on Jeff Green! I like the guy alot but he isnt a SF

[Fafnir]

I don't quite understand how Charlotte would be ahead of TheWiz with the best two players on there having what I would call down years.

I think you can easily swap around the two teams..I think their records will be very close, but I think Gerald Wallace has shown his ability to be a leader on a poor team better than Chris Bosh has..but to be honest, both teams utter lack of any real interior defense just made me think they'd be about equal.

Gerald Wallace and Bosh being equal players, huh? Charlotte hasn't won a playoff game with Gerald Wallace, and only made the playoffs as a lower seed after Stephen Jackson came to town.

Bosh made the playoffs twice and actually won a few games.

In literally two of the worst seasons the east has ever seen.

Neither player is a true leader or star..can't they both be pretty?

Yeah I don't think they're equivalent, especially when Wallace has only had one all-star caliber year, compared to Bosh's 6 such season.

The idea that Wallace is a better player to build a "bad" team around baffles me honestly. I'm not sure where you draw that conclusion, unless you've suddenly become a Dave Berri fan IP.

I don't think either guy is a good team to build a team around.

But, when I was doing up my writeups (you know..the only guy stupid enough to waste an hour of my life and put some real effort into talking about this thing), I decided I'd rather go with the team starting 4 reliable vets to win 35 games over the team starting a rookie at the point and a small forward out of position to win 34 games.

But, like I said, I'm not married to that notion. My main point was that neither Was or Char are ready yet.

I am really just nitpicking at the Wallace comment, I get the argument behind your write up. But to rate them as equivalent isn't supportable given their body of performance.

[StartOrien]

I'd take Wallace over Bosh.

You can't build around either player, they're both better off suited to be a number 2 or 3 option. So, if I'm trying to win Itake the better complimentary star. I'll take the guy who rebounds and plays defense over the tall scorer.

[Fafnir]

I'd take Wallace over Bosh.

You can't build around either player, they're both better off suited to be a number 2 or 3 option. So, if I'm trying to win I'll take the better complimentary star and I'll take the guy who rebounds and plays defense over the tall scorer.

http://bkref.com/tiny/OK3FY

Given how often Wallace plays PF he's not a game changing rebounder. He had one season of being one, but before and after that he's just be very good.

[Who]

I would have liked to have seen Orlando hold onto Hedo Turkoglu.

Not because he is anything special but because as a 6-10 playmaker he gave the roster interesting flexibility in building in it. The most talented scorers, by the time Orlando was picking in 1st + 2nd + 3rd rounds, where all tweener combo guards who have played wonderfully well alongside Hedo and Dwight.

I thought picking Jameer Nelson limited Orlando's options right out the gate.

[StartOrien]

I would have liked to have seen Orlando hold onto Hedo Turkoglu.

Not because he is anything special but because as a 6-10 playmaker he gave the roster interesting flexibility in building in it. The most talented scorers, by the time Orlando was picking in 1st + 2nd + 3rd rounds, where all tweener combo guards who have played wonderfully well alongside Hedo and Dwight.

I thought picking Jameer Nelson limited Orlando's options right out the gate.

Speaking w/ some knowledge, I believe that the Nelson for Beasley trade was worked out before the draft started.

[Who]

On Orlando, I dislike

(1) The DeRozan and Beasley partnership on the wings. I think they are, currently, two of the weakest starting wing players in the NBA.

(2) Raymond Felton is a nice 4th/5th option but on this squad he is the second most talented player on the roster. Asking too much.

(3) Ramon Sessions as a backup PG instead of giving the duties to Leandro Barbosa who is more limited player when he plays all of his minutes as a two guard instead of part PG + part SG.

(4) The lack of backup big men. Johan Petro is a good fifth big man and serviceable fourth ... but on this roster, he is Orlando's only true big man.

(5) Dante Cunningham is not a rotation worthy player. He is a third stringer.

------------------------------------------------

What I do like:

(1) The great Dwight Howard

(2) Travis Outlaw is a very good option as a combo forward sixth man off the bench. He does need a strong defensive presence in that second unit (while Dwight rests) alongside him though otherwise that lineup is going to be hugely vulnerable defensively + on the boards.

(3) Channing Frye who is a solid role player who quietly goes about his business and facilitates their team offense + team defense effectively.

(4) Potentially ... Leandro Barbosa ... who could give Orlando a very strong 1-2 punch off the bench with Outlaw if given the PG duties ... if not his talent is diluted significantly ... need to trade Sessions for a true backup wing player.

[mgent]

I'd take Wallace over Bosh.

You can't build around either player, they're both better off suited to be a number 2 or 3 option. So, if I'm trying to win I'll take the better complimentary star and I'll take the guy who rebounds and plays defense over the tall scorer.

http://bkref.com/tiny/OK3FY

Given how often Wallace plays PF he's not a game changing rebounder. He had one season of being one, but before and after that he's just be very good.

He's still one of the better rebounding SFs and I too would take Wallace over Bosh.  Some people might give Bosh the edge because he's a better go to scorer but as already said neither is ideal as a first option anyway.

[Who]

I think John Wall is being under-rated here.

A Wall + Bosh combination is far more potent than is being given credit.

Washington also have good role players with good complementary skill-sets playing alongside them. A quality supporting cast. They are missing a big man who interior defense but their supporting cast have a lot of other good qualities.

--------------------------------------------

Edit: Actually, as I read some more posts, maybe it's Bosh who is under-rated and not Wall. Not sure. Anyway, as a combination, Bosh + Wall is highly under-rated.

--------------------------------------------

If that Washington were in the NBA, they would be an average to slightly above average defensive squad + an above average rebounding team + a top ten offensive team.

[StartOrien]

I think John Wall is being under-rated here.

A Wall + Bosh combination is far more potent than is being given credit.

Washington also have good role players with good complementary skill-sets playing alongside them. A quality supporting cast. They are missing a big man who interior defense but their supporting cast have a lot of other good qualities.

--------------------------------------------

Edit: Actually, as I read some more posts, maybe it's Bosh who is under-rated and not Wall. Not sure. Anyway, as a combination, Bosh + Wall is highly under-rated.

--------------------------------------------

If that Washington were in the NBA, they would be an average to slightly above average defensive squad + an above average rebounding team + a top ten offensive team.

I'll start off by saying I probably bash Bosh enough to make me sound like a "hater." But I do recognize his talents. He's a terrific scorer, with good range, and has terrific height which can't be understated.

That being said....

Excluding Bosh, I'd say that the pick 2 Wizards are pretty on par with the actual Wizards - who record wise, are a pretty lousy team right now. In some bizarre world, where the Heat just offered the Wizards Bosh for free - how much of an increase in wins do we really think he'd produce? To me, it's relatively minimal, say 5-7 wins  max.

[Fafnir]

I think John Wall is being under-rated here.

A Wall + Bosh combination is far more potent than is being given credit.

Washington also have good role players with good complementary skill-sets playing alongside them. A quality supporting cast. They are missing a big man who interior defense but their supporting cast have a lot of other good qualities.

--------------------------------------------

Edit: Actually, as I read some more posts, maybe it's Bosh who is under-rated and not Wall. Not sure. Anyway, as a combination, Bosh + Wall is highly under-rated.

--------------------------------------------

If that Washington were in the NBA, they would be an average to slightly above average defensive squad + an above average rebounding team + a top ten offensive team.

I'll start off by saying I probably bash Bosh enough to make me sound like a "hater." But I do recognize his talents. He's a terrific scorer, with good range, and has terrific height which can't be understated.

That being said....

Excluding Bosh, I'd say that the pick 2 Wizards are pretty on par with the actual Wizards - who record wise, are a pretty lousy team right now. In some bizarre world, where the Heat just offered the Wizards Bosh for free - how much of an increase in wins do we really think he'd produce? To me, it's relatively minimal, say 5-7 wins  max.

You really think Bosh is only 5 or 7 wins better than Andray Blatche?

I think Bosh is being wildly under rated here. Last year the Raptors were 40-42, this year they're on pace to win 12 less games.


They dropped from 5th in offensive efficiency to 22nd.

[wdleehi]

I think John Wall is being under-rated here.

A Wall + Bosh combination is far more potent than is being given credit.

Washington also have good role players with good complementary skill-sets playing alongside them. A quality supporting cast. They are missing a big man who interior defense but their supporting cast have a lot of other good qualities.

--------------------------------------------

Edit: Actually, as I read some more posts, maybe it's Bosh who is under-rated and not Wall. Not sure. Anyway, as a combination, Bosh + Wall is highly under-rated.

--------------------------------------------

If that Washington were in the NBA, they would be an average to slightly above average defensive squad + an above average rebounding team + a top ten offensive team.

I'll start off by saying I probably bash Bosh enough to make me sound like a "hater." But I do recognize his talents. He's a terrific scorer, with good range, and has terrific height which can't be understated.

That being said....

Excluding Bosh, I'd say that the pick 2 Wizards are pretty on par with the actual Wizards - who record wise, are a pretty lousy team right now. In some bizarre world, where the Heat just offered the Wizards Bosh for free - how much of an increase in wins do we really think he'd produce? To me, it's relatively minimal, say 5-7 wins  max.

You are kidding right?  

Toronto went from a .488 winning clip to a .273 winning clip when the lost Bosh.


He worth more then that.  


And the stats say the best pair on the heat include him with one of the other guys, not the two other guys.  


Even on the the Heat being the third option after two shot jackers, he is still averaging more points then anyone on the Wiz shooting a good % for a jumpshooter.  




Wallace is an over glorified undersized PF that can't play that position any more because of concussions.  The team played max out one whole season with a great coach to be blown away come playoff time when the other team matched the intensity.  

Great defender.  Great in the full court.  Not so good in the half court.  

[StartOrien]

I think John Wall is being under-rated here.

A Wall + Bosh combination is far more potent than is being given credit.

Washington also have good role players with good complementary skill-sets playing alongside them. A quality supporting cast. They are missing a big man who interior defense but their supporting cast have a lot of other good qualities.

--------------------------------------------

Edit: Actually, as I read some more posts, maybe it's Bosh who is under-rated and not Wall. Not sure. Anyway, as a combination, Bosh + Wall is highly under-rated.

--------------------------------------------

If that Washington were in the NBA, they would be an average to slightly above average defensive squad + an above average rebounding team + a top ten offensive team.

I'll start off by saying I probably bash Bosh enough to make me sound like a "hater." But I do recognize his talents. He's a terrific scorer, with good range, and has terrific height which can't be understated.

That being said....

Excluding Bosh, I'd say that the pick 2 Wizards are pretty on par with the actual Wizards - who record wise, are a pretty lousy team right now. In some bizarre world, where the Heat just offered the Wizards Bosh for free - how much of an increase in wins do we really think he'd produce? To me, it's relatively minimal, say 5-7 wins  max.

You really think Bosh is only 5 or 7 wins better than Andray Blatche?

I think Bosh is being wildly under rated here.

5-7 wins on a team that's currently 15-38. That's about a 15-22% improvement. Pretty significant.

[Fafnir]

I think John Wall is being under-rated here.

A Wall + Bosh combination is far more potent than is being given credit.

Washington also have good role players with good complementary skill-sets playing alongside them. A quality supporting cast. They are missing a big man who interior defense but their supporting cast have a lot of other good qualities.

--------------------------------------------

Edit: Actually, as I read some more posts, maybe it's Bosh who is under-rated and not Wall. Not sure. Anyway, as a combination, Bosh + Wall is highly under-rated.

--------------------------------------------

If that Washington were in the NBA, they would be an average to slightly above average defensive squad + an above average rebounding team + a top ten offensive team.

I'll start off by saying I probably bash Bosh enough to make me sound like a "hater." But I do recognize his talents. He's a terrific scorer, with good range, and has terrific height which can't be understated.

That being said....

Excluding Bosh, I'd say that the pick 2 Wizards are pretty on par with the actual Wizards - who record wise, are a pretty lousy team right now. In some bizarre world, where the Heat just offered the Wizards Bosh for free - how much of an increase in wins do we really think he'd produce? To me, it's relatively minimal, say 5-7 wins  max.

You really think Bosh is only 5 or 7 wins better than Andray Blatche?

I think Bosh is being wildly under rated here.

5-7 wins on a team that's currently 15-38. That's about a 15-22% improvement. Pretty significant.

Yes it would be, but based on the Raptors and his statistics he's worth at least double that in my view.