How is my Pick 2 team?

[indeedproceed]

Anybody want to take another shot at my team thus far?

Devin Harris
Joe Johnson
Trevor Ariza
Ryan Anderson
Al Horford

Ben Gordon

Where do you see this team maxing out?  Can they contend, or are they just a perennial playoff afterthought?

Devin Harris and the current mix alone to me makes them comperable to the Hawks..I don't know if you're better..Ariza is uber athletic, but so is Marvin Williams...Ryan Andersen is a better spot shooter than Josh Smith, but he's not nearly the defensive equal..Ben Gordon vs Jamal Crawford I'm calling a wash, but Gordon is the higher impact guy..yet I doubt you'll use him more than 20 minutes a contest.

Hard to pin down right now.

This is my self-assessment.

Personally, I think the biggest dropoff from the real team to my team is clearly at PF.  Ryan Anderson will give Horford space to work inside, but you're right - he's a liability on defense.  I think Ariza is a better player than Marvin - more athletic, comparable as a shooter and a better defender.  Devin Harris is much, much better than Mike Bibby, and I feel that upgrade more than makes up for the ground I lost at PF.  I like Ben Gordon for this team - they make good use of a gun off the bench.  The biggest difference I see between Gordon and Crawford is that Gordon has proven to be an asset in the playoffs - he gave the Celtics a lot of problems a couple years ago.

I'd like to think that my team 1-6 is better than real Atlanta, if only marginally so.  I'll need a productive big man next - ideally it would be a hard-nosed defender who can rebound and hit an open midrange jumper.  Haslem would have been great, but Lucky beat me to him.  I'll have to think about that.

I can agree with a lot of that assessment, Devin Harris is both more skilled offensively and defensively than Mike Bibby, as well as considerably more athletic, so that's a huge boon.

I do wonder though how much better Ariza is than Williams (Williams has never in his life been more than a second banana, and 90% of the time fouth banana), because we've never really seen what Williams can do if really given the keys. When you ask too much of Ariza he completely disappoints..and too much is being the second scoring option. He's your third, arguably 4th here, so I think he'll mirror Williams production and impact quite a bit.

Also, I think the dropoff between Bibby and Harris is larger than the dropoff between Smith and Andersen, but in the same way that Smith made their offense streaky and defense a force, Bibby is offensively streaky and a defensive liability. I think Smith's loss will be felt much more acutely than you're giving credit for here.

That can change a lot though with the right pieces off the bench. Who you get as first and second bigs off the bench will have a lot to do with that.

[Atzar]

I appreciate the input, guys.  TP's all around.

[action781]

Anybody want to take another shot at my team thus far?

Devin Harris
Joe Johnson
Trevor Ariza
Ryan Anderson
Al Horford

Ben Gordon

Where do you see this team maxing out?  Can they contend, or are they just a perennial playoff afterthought?

Perennial playoff afterthought.

I will say this:  The Hawks (along with the Celtics and Spurs to a smaller extent) are one of the hardest teams to improve upon because of:

1. your late draft pick
2. the lowest quality 2 keepers of teams 17-28 (because Hawks' talent is more spread out)
3. and the quality of your original team that you are trying to compete with

Three Hawks were drafted in the first three rounds averaging being picked at pick 14 in each round, while you had to draft at pick #20 in each round.  That's a tough disadvantage to overcome.

[GreenFaith1819]

Thoughts on my Clippers?

[indeedproceed]

Thoughts on my Clippers?

I am the opposite of a fan of Davis/Turkoglu pairing. Also, looking at how much the Clips rely on Eric Gordon for scoring, I think Dunleavy isn't up to the task anymore. I think there is a lot of talent there, but I wonder exactly how they fit together.

EDIT: That's the bad stuff. The good stuff is that you're not facing the Baron Davis knock, because you have Blake Griffin, and according to popular basketball belief, Blake Griffin can make Baron Davis believe in rainbows.

[Edgar]

Thoughts on my Clippers?

Against IP I love Mike and the job hes doing this year specially
both with touk can perfectly make up for gordon
If you can get rid of your keeper baron
( i should have kept gordon)
And get a miller kind of pg
i am sold

Your big guys will be underrated but theyre gold

Griffin is THE man, Okafor is playing amazing despite this injury, hedo is good there no complains

you will need deepness with kenyon injuried hope you have at least 2 rounders on next one

[Who]

Thoughts on my Clippers?

PG - Baron Davis
SG - Mike Dunleavy Jr.
SF - Hedo Turkoglu
PF - Blake Griffin/Kenyon Martin
C -  Emeka Okafor/Kenyon Martin

I love Mike Dunleavy's + Hedo Turkoglu's post entry passing to big men.

Also when you run the pick and roll, reverse the ball, and Dunleavy or Hedo can just see over the defense and pop the pass right on the money to your big man (Blake Griffin or Emeka Okafor who is rolling to the rim) for the easy dunk.

Some lovely passing between those two.

Having Dunleavy at 6-10 at SG is a nice advantage in terms of passing. Hedo Turkoglu too.

[action781]

I love Mike Dunleavy's + Hedo Turkoglu's post entry passing to big men.

What?!?!?     You "love" their post entry passing??

Who, you get a TOMMY POINT for this one.  You always seem to drop my jaw with the most random, obscure comments on players that most people just don't care about.  I haven't watched a single game this season with Mike Dunleavy in it that wasn't against the Celtics.  What post players has he played with in his career has he so impressively entry passed into??

[Who]

I love Mike Dunleavy's + Hedo Turkoglu's post entry passing to big men.

What?!?!?     You "love" their post entry passing??

Who, you get a TOMMY POINT for this one.  You always seem to drop my jaw with the most random, obscure comments on players that most people just don't care about.  I haven't watched a single game this season with Mike Dunleavy in it that wasn't against the Celtics.  What post players has he played with in his career has he so impressively entry passed into??

The majestic Roy Hibbert + injury riddled past his prime Jermaine O'Neal ... but the passes were beautiful! On the money every time.

Especially some of those passes on the pick and roll -- not as the ball-handler on the PnR, but after the ball-handler dribbles out wide or into the paint and kicks it back to the guy at the top of the key ... who can see across the whole defense and pick apart whatever gap there is in the defense. Dunleavy is fantastic at that as a big two guard. 

He makes passes that most 6-5 shooting guard just can't see or aren't able to make over the scrambling help defense.

Side Note: This is one of the things that drives me nuts about Jameer Nelson in Orlando. The awful post entry passes + the number of times he misses his big man rolling to the hoop on pick and rolls. One of the reasons he is an overrated passer as a PG.

[Edgar]

I love Mike Dunleavy's + Hedo Turkoglu's post entry passing to big men.

What?!?!?     You "love" their post entry passing??

Who, you get a TOMMY POINT for this one.  You always seem to drop my jaw with the most random, obscure comments on players that most people just don't care about.  I haven't watched a single game this season with Mike Dunleavy in it that wasn't against the Celtics.  What post players has he played with in his career has he so impressively entry passed into??

The majestic Roy Hibbert + injury riddled past his prime Jermaine O'Neal ... but the passes were beautiful! On the money every time.

Especially some of those passes on the pick and roll -- not as the ball-handler on the PnR, but after the ball-handler dribbles out wide or into the paint and kicks it back to the guy at the top of the key ... who can see across the whole defense and pick apart whatever gap there is in the defense. Dunleavy is fantastic at that as a big two guard. 

He makes passes that most 6-5 shooting guard just can't see or aren't able to make over the scrambling help defense.

Side Note: This is one of the things that drives me nuts about Jameer Nelson in Orlando. The awful post entry passes + the number of times he misses his big man rolling to the hoop on pick and rolls. One of the reasons he is an overrated passer as a PG.

hope youre not sarcartic with the majestic comment
of the world champion starting center

[Who]

I love Mike Dunleavy's + Hedo Turkoglu's post entry passing to big men.

What?!?!?     You "love" their post entry passing??

Who, you get a TOMMY POINT for this one.  You always seem to drop my jaw with the most random, obscure comments on players that most people just don't care about.  I haven't watched a single game this season with Mike Dunleavy in it that wasn't against the Celtics.  What post players has he played with in his career has he so impressively entry passed into??

The majestic Roy Hibbert + injury riddled past his prime Jermaine O'Neal ... but the passes were beautiful! On the money every time.

Especially some of those passes on the pick and roll -- not as the ball-handler on the PnR, but after the ball-handler dribbles out wide or into the paint and kicks it back to the guy at the top of the key ... who can see across the whole defense and pick apart whatever gap there is in the defense. Dunleavy is fantastic at that as a big two guard. 

He makes passes that most 6-5 shooting guard just can't see or aren't able to make over the scrambling help defense.

Side Note: This is one of the things that drives me nuts about Jameer Nelson in Orlando. The awful post entry passes + the number of times he misses his big man rolling to the hoop on pick and rolls. One of the reasons he is an overrated passer as a PG.

hope youre not sarcartic with the majestic comment
of the world champion starting center

Not a big Roy Hibbert fan but I liked his progress this season. He has firmly established himself as a legitimate starting quality center (I didn't think he was one previously).

A solid defender, a very good rebounder and a good offensive threat.

Terrific at taking advantage at mismatches but struggles as a go-to scorer against centers with true size and defensive ability. In that scenario, more of a complementary scorer who should rely on others + hustle plays to create his baskets.

[Atzar]

Thoughts on my Clippers?

Love your frontcourt, but I dislike your backcourt.  

I still can't understand why you took Davis over Gordon.  To me, Turkoglu duplicates what you cited as the biggest reason you kept Baron (he's a facilitator).  Turkoglu, as good as he is with the ball in his hands, has shown to be equally as bad when he can't be the primary ballhandler.  I think a trio of scoring PG/Gordon/Turkoglu would have been very good - couple that with your stellar frontcourt and you have a contender in a couple of years.  As it is, you're relying on 'The Shadow of Dunleavy' for perimeter scoring, as well as Davis and Turkoglu - one of which will be playing a role to which they aren't well-suited.  

I think you're best off making some smart trades.  Flip Davis for a scoring point or Turkoglu for a more conventional 3.  I don't see Dunleavy as a starter anymore, but there are still some very solid defensive guards left on the board - somebody like Corey/Ronnie Brewer or Sefolosha could slide into that starter spot and provide your team with some much-needed perimeter defense.  Dunleavy may be useful as a 6th man.  

Just my take.

[slamtheking]

Anybody want to take another shot at my team thus far?

Devin Harris
Joe Johnson
Trevor Ariza
Ryan Anderson
Al Horford

Ben Gordon

Where do you see this team maxing out?  Can they contend, or are they just a perennial playoff afterthought?

Perennial playoff afterthought.

I will say this:  The Hawks (along with the Celtics and Spurs to a smaller extent) are one of the hardest teams to improve upon because of:

1. your late draft pick
2. the lowest quality 2 keepers of teams 17-28 (because Hawks' talent is more spread out)
3. and the quality of your original team that you are trying to compete with

Three Hawks were drafted in the first three rounds averaging being picked at pick 14 in each round, while you had to draft at pick #20 in each round.  That's a tough disadvantage to overcome.

You captured my thoughts exactly on the challenges of trying to build the Spurs.  I lost Parker and there was no way I was going to get a comparable player even with my first pick.  Kaman may be a better option than Blair at center and Kidd isn't a slouch at PG but neither of them are spring chickens.

[Who]

 I think a trio of scoring PG/Gordon/Turkoglu would have been very good - couple that with your stellar frontcourt and you have a contender in a couple of years.  

Yeah, I would have been a big fan of that setup too.

Hmm, Ben Gordon (PG) + Eric Gordon (SG) + Hedo Turkoglu (SF) ... that trio would have caused havoc and some very interesting matchup issues.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Anybody want to take another shot at my team thus far?

Devin Harris
Joe Johnson
Trevor Ariza
Ryan Anderson
Al Horford

Ben Gordon

Where do you see this team maxing out?  Can they contend, or are they just a perennial playoff afterthought?

Perennial playoff afterthought.

I will say this:  The Hawks (along with the Celtics and Spurs to a smaller extent) are one of the hardest teams to improve upon because of:

1. your late draft pick
2. the lowest quality 2 keepers of teams 17-28 (because Hawks' talent is more spread out)
3. and the quality of your original team that you are trying to compete with

Three Hawks were drafted in the first three rounds averaging being picked at pick 14 in each round, while you had to draft at pick #20 in each round.  That's a tough disadvantage to overcome.

I'd agree with Action that the Hawks are one of the most difficult teams to inherit. But I'm not sure he gives you enough credit. Bibby is a steady hand and a three point threat but he's also a one-dimensional scorer and a liability defensively. Harris seems to have plateaued somewhere below expectations, and is consequently now underrated, but he's a true playmaker (fourth best assist % in the league behind only Nash, Rondo, and Paul), gets to the line (6.5 FTA per 36), and is a plus defender. The difference between Bibby and Harris is a huge plus for your Hawks. And Ryan Anderson offsets the loss of Mike's shooting.

Your Hawks are also better at small forward. Although Ariza is shooting the ball so badly this season (39% FG%?) that he only edges Williams out on the strength of his defense and relative durability in 2010.

What your Hawks will miss most - obviously - is Josh Smith's disruptive defense, his ability to change the momentum of a game without the ball. The good news is you've got an opportunity to improve on Atlanta's thin bench.