Why can't Boston attract a Tier 1 Free Agent?!

[LooseCannon]

The perception of racism in Boston goes beyond sports. It includes the vehement opposition in support of de facto segregation and against school busing.  It's the sense that the police are a bunch of Irish- and Italian-American white ethnics of the sort who became Reagan Democrats in the '80s as a way to express racist resentment.  It includes Henry Louis Gates, Jr, being arrested at his own home in 2009.  It has something to do with Boston having very, very white suburbs.  It's the belief that blacks are under-represented in city government. 

[slamtheking]

This is a ridiculous statement that some people around here keep bringing up. Since the CBA has been put in place the C's have never been in a position to land a top tier FA. When have they had cap room since the early 90's? the answer is never .

This is all that needs to be said.

exactly.  this answers the question in a nice, neat (and fairly politely considering the topic) package.

I, for one, would appreciate the OP definitively stating exactly which top tier FA the C's missed out on AND explain how the C's missed out on that FA.  Personally, I don't think a single example can be produced which makes this thread moot. 

Now if they have lots of cap room in 2012 and Rondo/PP as a combo to lure a top FA and don't land a top FA (if one is available), then there may be a point to this discussion.

[2short]

Most major cities in the 60's were pretty harsh racially.  Russell was treated horribly.  However the idea that New England is still considered racially slanted is silly, sure its around, but I've travelled and its shocking to go to other parts of the country.  More than a few states in our country are still in the 50's as far as race & how women are treated.
Hey mr x free agent, want to go to LA in a winning environment with warm weather and starlets / party girls or go to Boston in (currently) winning environment with cold weather and intelligent women.  The celtics had been bad so long I don't think anyone realized, no one would want to come to Rick Pitino world.
On this years team for free agents, correct me if i'm wrong, shaq, jermaine, delonte.  I'm happy with those guys.  As far as historically I don't think the Celtics have really ever been a free agent signing team.
Name some? from past years
guessing again but xavier mcdaniel (a favorite of mine), dominique wilkins?, scott wedman?
I can only think of wicks

[EJPLAYA]

This is a ridiculous statement that some people around here keep bringing up. Since the CBA has been put in place the C's have never been in a position to land a top tier FA. When have they had cap room since the early 90's? the answer is never .

This is all that needs to be said.

exactly.  this answers the question in a nice, neat (and fairly politely considering the topic) package.

I, for one, would appreciate the OP definitively stating exactly which top tier FA the C's missed out on AND explain how the C's missed out on that FA.  Personally, I don't think a single example can be produced which makes this thread moot. 

Now if they have lots of cap room in 2012 and Rondo/PP as a combo to lure a top FA and don't land a top FA (if one is available), then there may be a point to this discussion.

Considering that we haven't signed ANY top tier free agent then the answer is ALL of them. My question to the group was WHY? My theory is that no one wants to live in Boston. I wanted to see what other opinions were out there. Considering that many people on here's idea for post Big 3 success is to sit and wait for all these top tier free agents to come running to play with Rondo, and history has shown that they don't ever come here, I think it is a fair question. If there is a valid reason then we're better off to try and trade Rondo and retool that way. If there is not then maybe we can have some optimism.

[Fafnir]

This is a ridiculous statement that some people around here keep bringing up. Since the CBA has been put in place the C's have never been in a position to land a top tier FA. When have they had cap room since the early 90's? the answer is never .

This is all that needs to be said.

exactly.  this answers the question in a nice, neat (and fairly politely considering the topic) package.

I, for one, would appreciate the OP definitively stating exactly which top tier FA the C's missed out on AND explain how the C's missed out on that FA.  Personally, I don't think a single example can be produced which makes this thread moot. 

Now if they have lots of cap room in 2012 and Rondo/PP as a combo to lure a top FA and don't land a top FA (if one is available), then there may be a point to this discussion.

Considering that we haven't signed ANY top tier free agent then the answer is ALL of them. My question to the group was WHY? My theory is that no one wants to live in Boston. I wanted to see what other opinions were out there. Considering that many people on here's idea for post Big 3 success is to sit and wait for all these top tier free agents to come running to play with Rondo, and history has shown that they don't ever come here, I think it is a fair question. If there is a valid reason then we're better off to try and trade Rondo and retool that way. If there is not then maybe we can have some optimism.

Can you point to a specific FA that passed on Boston when Boston had cap space to sign them?

Honestly the only cases I can think of to support your idea is the refusal of Shawn Marion and KG to come to Boston when Danny was trying to make a deal in 06-07's offseason. Before the Ray Allen deal.

[More Banners]

This is a ridiculous statement that some people around here keep bringing up. Since the CBA has been put in place the C's have never been in a position to land a top tier FA. When have they had cap room since the early 90's? the answer is never .

This is all that needs to be said.

exactly.  this answers the question in a nice, neat (and fairly politely considering the topic) package.

I, for one, would appreciate the OP definitively stating exactly which top tier FA the C's missed out on AND explain how the C's missed out on that FA.  Personally, I don't think a single example can be produced which makes this thread moot. 

Now if they have lots of cap room in 2012 and Rondo/PP as a combo to lure a top FA and don't land a top FA (if one is available), then there may be a point to this discussion.

Considering that we haven't signed ANY top tier free agent then the answer is ALL of them. My question to the group was WHY? My theory is that no one wants to live in Boston. I wanted to see what other opinions were out there. Considering that many people on here's idea for post Big 3 success is to sit and wait for all these top tier free agents to come running to play with Rondo, and history has shown that they don't ever come here, I think it is a fair question. If there is a valid reason then we're better off to try and trade Rondo and retool that way. If there is not then maybe we can have some optimism.

Can you point to a specific FA that passed on Boston when Boston had cap space to sign them?

Honestly the only cases I can think of to support your idea is the refusal of Shawn Marion and KG to come to Boston when Danny was trying to make a deal in 06-07's offseason. Before the Ray Allen deal.

Right.  And this is why signing PP to a four year extension wasn't a bad idea, even though he'll probably slow down quite a bit in those last couple of years.  Rondo isn't enticing enough by himself, but with Rondo setting the table, and with Pierce as a 2nd option, we might, *might* have a shot with one more star and a solid roster around them.

[slamtheking]

This is a ridiculous statement that some people around here keep bringing up. Since the CBA has been put in place the C's have never been in a position to land a top tier FA. When have they had cap room since the early 90's? the answer is never .

This is all that needs to be said.

exactly.  this answers the question in a nice, neat (and fairly politely considering the topic) package.

I, for one, would appreciate the OP definitively stating exactly which top tier FA the C's missed out on AND explain how the C's missed out on that FA.  Personally, I don't think a single example can be produced which makes this thread moot. 

Now if they have lots of cap room in 2012 and Rondo/PP as a combo to lure a top FA and don't land a top FA (if one is available), then there may be a point to this discussion.

Considering that we haven't signed ANY top tier free agent then the answer is ALL of them. My question to the group was WHY? My theory is that no one wants to live in Boston. I wanted to see what other opinions were out there. Considering that many people on here's idea for post Big 3 success is to sit and wait for all these top tier free agents to come running to play with Rondo, and history has shown that they don't ever come here, I think it is a fair question. If there is a valid reason then we're better off to try and trade Rondo and retool that way. If there is not then maybe we can have some optimism.

EJ, you haven't answered the question.  Who could they have signed and how did they miss out on signing them?  simple question.

Just because we DIDN'T sign one, doesn't mean we COULD have signed one.  You need to have the available cap space to sign a top level FA.  Period.  At what time did this team have that kind of cap space available?  to solve that dilemna for you, they haven't.  Period. 

You can p--- and moan about this team not signing one all you want and claim that it's bad management, poor attitudes towards the city or fans or franchise or whatever but that doesn't change the fact that the C's have not had the $ to be active in the chase for top FA's. 

I just don't understand why you're saying this team has missed out on ALL the FA's.  That's not even a remotely accurate statement.  Do you honestly think a player, such as Lebron for example, would even consider coming to Boston, or any team for that matter, for MLE money?  That's what you're proposing if you are seriously asking why Boston didn't sign him or any other FA in the past 20 years.

[bruinsandceltics]

There becomes a point where someone isn't just a contrarian and he is just a troll.......I think we have found our limit with this poster.

[cavman]

Why would you think this is the last place any top tier FA would want to play? This is only the organization with the most titles in NBA history, most retired numbers, the most hall of famers in NBA history, played in some of the most memorable games in NBA history.

You got it, no good numbers are left!

[Brendan]

When Slick Rick signed Travis Knight, weren't they in position to sign someone good then?

[EJPLAYA]

This is a ridiculous statement that some people around here keep bringing up. Since the CBA has been put in place the C's have never been in a position to land a top tier FA. When have they had cap room since the early 90's? the answer is never .

This is all that needs to be said.

exactly.  this answers the question in a nice, neat (and fairly politely considering the topic) package.

I, for one, would appreciate the OP definitively stating exactly which top tier FA the C's missed out on AND explain how the C's missed out on that FA.  Personally, I don't think a single example can be produced which makes this thread moot. 

Now if they have lots of cap room in 2012 and Rondo/PP as a combo to lure a top FA and don't land a top FA (if one is available), then there may be a point to this discussion.

Considering that we haven't signed ANY top tier free agent then the answer is ALL of them. My question to the group was WHY? My theory is that no one wants to live in Boston. I wanted to see what other opinions were out there. Considering that many people on here's idea for post Big 3 success is to sit and wait for all these top tier free agents to come running to play with Rondo, and history has shown that they don't ever come here, I think it is a fair question. If there is a valid reason then we're better off to try and trade Rondo and retool that way. If there is not then maybe we can have some optimism.

EJ, you haven't answered the question.  Who could they have signed and how did they miss out on signing them?  simple question.

Just because we DIDN'T sign one, doesn't mean we COULD have signed one.  You need to have the available cap space to sign a top level FA.  Period.  At what time did this team have that kind of cap space available?  to solve that dilemna for you, they haven't.  Period. 

You can [peeve] and moan about this team not signing one all you want and claim that it's bad management, poor attitudes towards the city or fans or franchise or whatever but that doesn't change the fact that the C's have not had the $ to be active in the chase for top FA's. 

I just don't understand why you're saying this team has missed out on ALL the FA's.  That's not even a remotely accurate statement.  Do you honestly think a player, such as Lebron for example, would even consider coming to Boston, or any team for that matter, for MLE money?  That's what you're proposing if you are seriously asking why Boston didn't sign him or any other FA in the past 20 years.

You guys are missing out on how this works! You don't look up and say "we have cap space. Let's see what Tier 1 free agents are out there and try and see if they'll come to Boston". Miami, NY, and Chicago PUT themselves in a situation where they COULD sign one and then went after them. Based on information from the players camps everyone knew where Lebron was interested in going. They then made moves to put themselves in a situation where they could sign them. My point is, that NEVER have we been in a situation where an upcoming Tier 1 free agent has floated out there that they want to come to Boston. Are you trying to tell me that since the early 90's that we have not had the ability to make some moves to clear cap space if one of them had? If Miami can keep Dwayne Wade and clear enough cap space to sign not only Lebron but also Bosh, surely they would have been able to make adjustments to keep Pierce and sign ONE. We didn't make these moves because no interest was ever expressed. No one wanted to sign with us. So in answer to your question. We missed out on ALL of them because not one of them had enough interest in Boston to even throw us out as a possibility.

[Fafnir]

So your argument is that we can infer that no big FA would ever come here because we never set ourselves up for cap space to get them?

That's a pretty big leap with no evidence, especially give what we all know about the circumstances of how Boston has caped themselves for pretty much the entire current CBA.

[rondohondo]

This is a ridiculous statement that some people around here keep bringing up. Since the CBA has been put in place the C's have never been in a position to land a top tier FA. When have they had cap room since the early 90's? the answer is never .

This is all that needs to be said.

exactly.  this answers the question in a nice, neat (and fairly politely considering the topic) package.

I, for one, would appreciate the OP definitively stating exactly which top tier FA the C's missed out on AND explain how the C's missed out on that FA.  Personally, I don't think a single example can be produced which makes this thread moot.  

Now if they have lots of cap room in 2012 and Rondo/PP as a combo to lure a top FA and don't land a top FA (if one is available), then there may be a point to this discussion.

Considering that we haven't signed ANY top tier free agent then the answer is ALL of them. My question to the group was WHY? My theory is that no one wants to live in Boston. I wanted to see what other opinions were out there. Considering that many people on here's idea for post Big 3 success is to sit and wait for all these top tier free agents to come running to play with Rondo, and history has shown that they don't ever come here, I think it is a fair question. If there is a valid reason then we're better off to try and trade Rondo and retool that way. If there is not then maybe we can have some optimism.

EJ, you haven't answered the question.  Who could they have signed and how did they miss out on signing them?  simple question.

Just because we DIDN'T sign one, doesn't mean we COULD have signed one.  You need to have the available cap space to sign a top level FA.  Period.  At what time did this team have that kind of cap space available?  to solve that dilemna for you, they haven't.  Period.  

You can [peeve] and moan about this team not signing one all you want and claim that it's bad management, poor attitudes towards the city or fans or franchise or whatever but that doesn't change the fact that the C's have not had the $ to be active in the chase for top FA's.  

I just don't understand why you're saying this team has missed out on ALL the FA's.  That's not even a remotely accurate statement.  Do you honestly think a player, such as Lebron for example, would even consider coming to Boston, or any team for that matter, for MLE money?  That's what you're proposing if you are seriously asking why Boston didn't sign him or any other FA in the past 20 years.

You guys are missing out on how this works! You don't look up and say "we have cap space. Let's see what Tier 1 free agents are out there and try and see if they'll come to Boston". Miami, NY, and Chicago PUT themselves in a situation where they COULD sign one and then went after them. Based on information from the players camps everyone knew where Lebron was interested in going. They then made moves to put themselves in a situation where they could sign them. My point is, that NEVER have we been in a situation where an upcoming Tier 1 free agent has floated out there that they want to come to Boston. Are you trying to tell me that since the early 90's that we have not had the ability to make some moves to clear cap space if one of them had? If Miami can keep Dwayne Wade and clear enough cap space to sign not only Lebron but also Bosh, surely they would have been able to make adjustments to keep Pierce and sign ONE. We didn't make these moves because no interest was ever expressed. No one wanted to sign with us. So in answer to your question. We missed out on ALL of them because not one of them had enough interest in Boston to even throw us out as a possibility.

wow , why even have a discussion if you can't process anything anyone else says and just constantly stick to this one untrue statement that no one wants to come to Boston.

The reason big name players didn't want/couldn't come here in the 90's is....

1)The C's were awful

2) Reggie Lewis passed and that messed up the cap situation for a few years because Stern wouldn't give the C's an exemption.

3) By the time PP was becoming an allstar , the C's had given Antoine a huge contract along with players like Travis Knight and Vin Baker. They had horrible management in place( Rick Pitino, Chris Wallace). They had to then sign PP to a max contract and were capped out .

This is the reason Danny Ainge was brought in . Danny traded away most of that capped out early 2000's team for young players and draft picks and expiring contracts .  He then went on to draft

Big Al
Perk
Rondo
West
Powe
BBD
Gomes

Even with all of these young players , the c's were still over the cap from the past management( Rick Pitino, Chris Wallace).

When the C's missed out on the top 2 picks in the 2007 NBA Draft ( Oden , Durant) he then shifted into win now mode. He traded all that young talent he acquired for 2 hall of famers and a 5 year championship window. During this Championship window many players have chosen the C's over other very good bball teams. guys like...

Rasheed
Shaq
Nate Robinson( wanted to be traded here )
JO

Sure they are no longer tier 1 players, but it shows that if a player believes he has a chance to win he will come to Boston.

The C's will have a boatload of money to offer Dwight Howard, along with another superstar player to attract him (Rondo) and a Players coach(hopefully) to entice him as well.

Orlando is going to run into similar problems that the C's have suffered from in the past because they will be capped out until at least 2013 with no real ability to acquire another superstar like Melo or Chris Paul to put next to him. Dwight could bail in 2012 if he can't make it back to the Finals in the next few seasons .

Danny has shown he knows what he is doing , have a little faith in him to get us another star to team up with Rondo.

[slamtheking]

This is a ridiculous statement that some people around here keep bringing up. Since the CBA has been put in place the C's have never been in a position to land a top tier FA. When have they had cap room since the early 90's? the answer is never .

This is all that needs to be said.

exactly.  this answers the question in a nice, neat (and fairly politely considering the topic) package.

I, for one, would appreciate the OP definitively stating exactly which top tier FA the C's missed out on AND explain how the C's missed out on that FA.  Personally, I don't think a single example can be produced which makes this thread moot.  

Now if they have lots of cap room in 2012 and Rondo/PP as a combo to lure a top FA and don't land a top FA (if one is available), then there may be a point to this discussion.

Considering that we haven't signed ANY top tier free agent then the answer is ALL of them. My question to the group was WHY? My theory is that no one wants to live in Boston. I wanted to see what other opinions were out there. Considering that many people on here's idea for post Big 3 success is to sit and wait for all these top tier free agents to come running to play with Rondo, and history has shown that they don't ever come here, I think it is a fair question. If there is a valid reason then we're better off to try and trade Rondo and retool that way. If there is not then maybe we can have some optimism.

EJ, you haven't answered the question.  Who could they have signed and how did they miss out on signing them?  simple question.

Just because we DIDN'T sign one, doesn't mean we COULD have signed one.  You need to have the available cap space to sign a top level FA.  Period.  At what time did this team have that kind of cap space available?  to solve that dilemna for you, they haven't.  Period.  

You can [peeve] and moan about this team not signing one all you want and claim that it's bad management, poor attitudes towards the city or fans or franchise or whatever but that doesn't change the fact that the C's have not had the $ to be active in the chase for top FA's.  

I just don't understand why you're saying this team has missed out on ALL the FA's.  That's not even a remotely accurate statement.  Do you honestly think a player, such as Lebron for example, would even consider coming to Boston, or any team for that matter, for MLE money?  That's what you're proposing if you are seriously asking why Boston didn't sign him or any other FA in the past 20 years.

You guys are missing out on how this works! You don't look up and say "we have cap space. Let's see what Tier 1 free agents are out there and try and see if they'll come to Boston". Miami, NY, and Chicago PUT themselves in a situation where they COULD sign one and then went after them. Based on information from the players camps everyone knew where Lebron was interested in going. They then made moves to put themselves in a situation where they could sign them. My point is, that NEVER have we been in a situation where an upcoming Tier 1 free agent has floated out there that they want to come to Boston. Are you trying to tell me that since the early 90's that we have not had the ability to make some moves to clear cap space if one of them had? If Miami can keep Dwayne Wade and clear enough cap space to sign not only Lebron but also Bosh, surely they would have been able to make adjustments to keep Pierce and sign ONE. We didn't make these moves because no interest was ever expressed. No one wanted to sign with us. So in answer to your question. We missed out on ALL of them because not one of them had enough interest in Boston to even throw us out as a possibility.

wow , why even have a discussion if you can't process anything anyone else says and just constantly stick to this one untrue statement that no one wants to come to Boston.

The reason big name players didn't want/couldn't come here in the 90's is....

1)The C's were awful

2) Reggie Lewis passed and that messed up the cap situation for a few years because Stern wouldn't give the C's an exemption.

3) By the time PP was becoming an allstar , the C's had given Antoine a huge contract along with players like Travis Knight and Vin Baker. They had horrible management in place( Rick Pitino, Chris Wallace). They had to then sign PP to a max contract and were capped out .

This is the reason Danny Ainge was brought in . Danny traded away most of that capped out early 2000's team for young players and draft picks and expiring contracts .  He then went on to draft

Big Al
Perk
Rondo
West
Powe
BBD
Gomes

Even with all of these young players , the c's were still over the cap from the past management( Rick Pitino, Chris Wallace).

When the C's missed out on the top 2 picks in the 2007 NBA Draft ( Oden , Durant) he then shifted into win now mode. He traded all that young talent he acquired for 2 hall of famers and a 5 year championship window. During this Championship window many players have chosen the C's over other very good bball teams. guys like...

Rasheed
Shaq
Nate Robinson( wanted to be traded here )
JO

Sure they are no longer tier 1 players, but it shows that if a player believes he has a chance to win he will come to Boston.

The C's will have a boatload of money to offer Dwight Howard, along with another superstar player to attract him (Rondo) and a Players coach(hopefully) to entice him as well.

Orlando is going to run into similar problems that the C's have suffered from in the past because they will be capped out until at least 2013 with no real ability to acquire another superstar like Melo or Chris Paul to put next to him. Dwight could bail in 2012 if he can't make it back to the Finals in the next few seasons .

Danny has shown he knows what he is doing , have a little faith in him to get us another star to team up with Rondo

well put RH.

let's try a different approach EJ.  You're stating the C's didn't land any top FA's because none of the ones that were available said they wanted to leave their current teams to come to Boston and that Boston didn't clear cap space to get those FA's.  At least that's how your latest rebuttal is coming across.

Again, to my last question to you, who did they miss out on?  no one.  the movement of top players as FA's is rare.  This past offseason is a rarity as someone else pointed out long ago in this thread.  most top players move via trades, not FA. 

To go to your issue that the C's should clear cap space to be ready to sign big name FA's -- other than just for their own financial wellbeing as a franchise, WHY?  nobody really moves as a FA.  The recent moves you've seen I feel fairly confident are due to other players seeing the success of the C's and Lakers in accumulating a number of talented players and these other players want to emulate that success.  Hence Bron, Bosh, Amare, Boozer all left to try to get into that situation.  Granted Amare is waiting on CP3 and Melo in NY but that's the concept.

I think you're way off base on blaming the C's for not clearing cap space in the hopes of luring a rare top-level FA that actually leaves their team and even further off base by stating that no one wants to play in Boston because no one has said they want to in order to get the C's to clear cap space.  This line of thinking just boggles my mind.

[thirstyboots18]

It depends on what you consider top tier free agents.  The Celts  get them mainly the same way other teams do, they resign their own...a la Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo, and Ray Allen.  The attract (former and still useful) talents for less money (Shaq, and JO presently) because these guys still want to win and know the Celtics are a legitamate threat to win the title.  What top tier talents would you rather have than Rondo, PP and Ray Allen? They could have left, but would rather stay Celtics...yes I realize Rondo resigned before he became a free agent, but that was still his choice. If you are looking at the really top tier free agents, due to their younger age, they are not, and will not settle for being, bench players, nor should they.