Why can't Boston attract a Tier 1 Free Agent?!

[BballTim]

 Who have the C's not been able to keep?  Rodney Rogers?

  No, after trading Joe Johnson to get him they let him walk at the end of the year. Thanks for bringing that up, btw.

[PosImpos]

EJ, why are you always so angry and confrontational? Lol.

I'll do you one better: KG came here. No, he wasn't a free agent at the time, but he had the power to reject the trade. He didn't. And might I add, we signed him to a pretty hefty extension to help the trade to go through showing that if we have the money to spend and the opportunity is there we can attract big players.

He says confrontationally... Insulting someone and putting LOL behind it doesn't quite make personal insults okay. I'm not sure you where you are reading in my post that I insulted someone or was confrontational. I asked a question that if we are putting all our eggs in the "bring in a couple top tier free agents to play with Rondo" basket after these guys are gone, aren't we being a little presumptive since no big free agents have ever come here?

KG first of all turned down coming here and when he got the full court press from Pierce, Ray Allen was signed here, and there weren't any better options out there he decided to. Yes I think he is glad he did after the fact, but that wasn't his #1 option. If he had complete control it's unlikely he would have.

Relax, dude. I didn't insult you, it's called sarcasm. So breath, exhale. Calm. Trust me, if I wanted to insult you I'd do it straight out, no lol.

The Lakers also were trying to get KG, so he could've went there. As far as Ray and Paul "full court pressing" him, that's part of the recruitement process and all teams use it to some extent to gain an advantage in negotiation, so I'm not sure what your point is in that regard.

With all that said, this is pretty much a moot point. We have yet to really pursue a big name in free agency. It's not like we're continuously going after guys and they're rejecting us. We work within our financial contraints and use the strengths of our franchise (history, a chance to win) to bring in the guys we need. In 2012, if we hit free agency hard and come up empty, I'll start to panic then.

He answered your comment even more confrontationally (I don't think this is a word), lol

confrontationally is a word.

[bucknersrevenge]

I think Donnie Wahlberg has been too consumed with NKOTB reunion, and hasn't spent enough time recruiting tier 1 talent. You put D Dubs in front of Amare, have him sing a little 'Hangin Tough' and bam, dudes here for 5.9

LOL If this doesn't get a Tommy Point I don't know what does.

[Celtics4ever]

I think the players know more about the Celtics than you think.  I clearly recall disdain and shock on PP's face once he was drafted here.  Granted that was years ago but a lot of the kids today grew up Laker or Bulls fans and we are not in the mix as a team someone wants to come to play.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the pressure of measuring up to the Celtics Pantheon.   Its huge really, playing in the shadow of Russell, Cousy, Bird, McHale, Cowens and Havlicek. 

I think having Doc helps us a lot to sign peeps.   We have not exactly had players coaches in the past.

[Fafnir]

I think the players know more about the Celtics than you think.  I clearly recall disdain and shock on PP's face once he was drafted here.  Granted that was years ago but a lot of the kids today grew up Laker or Bulls fans and we are not in the mix as a team someone wants to come to play.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the pressure of measuring up to the Celtics Pantheon.   Its huge really, playing in the shadow of Russell, Cousy, Bird, McHale, Cowens and Havlicek.  

I think having Doc helps us a lot to sign peeps.   We have not exactly had players coaches in the past.

Pierce was angry he got drafted 10th, he thought he was going to be picked in the top 3 or 4.

[birdwatcher]

I think Donnie Wahlberg has been too consumed with NKOTB reunion, and hasn't spent enough time recruiting tier 1 talent. You put D Dubs in front of Amare, have him sing a little 'Hangin Tough' and bam, dudes here for 5.9

LOL If this doesn't get a Tommy Point I don't know what does.

Agreed. TP's around!

[jasonditz]

Dominique was 35 at the time but he was coming off of being fourth in the league in scoring and his ninth consecutive all star season.

Xavier McDaniel was 29 (should be just coming into his prime) and had been a reliable 20 ppg / near 50% FG scorer for years (except for his previous season where he was a 3-4th option in NY).


Those are both max-moneyish talents.

[jasail]

I think OP has an interesting premise.  But I think it is a difficult question to answer because there are a ton of variables to deal with.  

First, since the new CBA was put in place we haven't had a tremendous amount of cap space.  Second, most big name free agents choose to stay where they are because they can make more money there.  Third, until Paul came we never really had an enticing star (sorry Toine fans) or a good team under the CBA. Fourth, we have high state taxes.  Lastly, when basketball is played here the weather sucks .    

Point is, maybe we have a chance at a tier 1 FA in 2012 because for once we have cap, a good name and an enticing star (unfortunately unless this global warming stuff kicks up the weather will still be terrible and Patrick will be Governor so taxes aren't going down). But even then, who says there will be any available FAs and even if there are who says they would prefer here to another destination.

Gotta build other ways in the NBA, very few places land top free agents!

[snively]

I think Miami, Orlando, LA and NY are always going to be the most attractive destinations due to weather and/or glamour, but Boston certainly has a shot at top free agents with the winning tradition, two all-stars in Rondo and Pierce, reputable management and.  It's not like we're Minnesota.

It would be really hard to lure a guy like Howard from Orlando though. 

[Tai]

Boston's not that far from NY either if Shaq had time to be on David Letterman....

[EJPLAYA]

Also, for whatever it's worth, we've done okay with attracting Tier 2 free agents.  Rasheed was probably the most coveted mid-level free agent last year, and he had his pick of contenders to go to (San Antonio, Orlando, etc.)  He chose Boston.  Jermaine O'Neal did the same thing this past off-season.

At the very least, that shows that we can compete with other cities when it comes to attracting free agents.  When the money is even, guys have chosen to come here.

I don't disagree with this at all. I think we are destined to be a Tier 2 free agent market. I see us getting the same situation Chicago did in the offseason and instead of getting a Lebron and Bosh, getting  Boozer and Kyle Korver.

If we don't get at least 1 superstar level player to play with Rondo and a Tier 2 player or two to go along with them, we aren't going to win anything. Historically speaking I just don't see that happening. I think the best thing that we could do to increase our chances of competing for a title would be to trade Rondo and filler for a low draft pick and a couple Tier 2 guys and hope you draft the superstar. Otherwise I think we return to the 90's again. Pretending that someone of Tier 1 status will come here when history shows otherwise is kind of futile.

so your plan to be a contender after the big 3 are gone is to trade Rondo for a low draft pick and a couple of tier 2 players ? Rondo himself is a tier 2 player and is going to have a greater impact than any other tier 2 player you bring in .

And then hope to get lucky in the draft?

This sounds like a great plan if you want to relive the 90's all over again.

The C's will most likely have around 35 mil on their pay role in 2012 with

PP
Rondo
Bradley
Perk or BBD

That means they will still have a ton of cap space to bring in another free agent to help build around.

Guys like Chris Paul, Eric Gordon, Kevin Love, Dwight Howard, Javel McGee,Gerald Wallace,O.J. Mayo,Michael Beasley,Brook Lopez,   will/could be free agents . I would much rather take a shot at trying to sign one of these guys in 2012 than to just trade Rondo away. You can always trade him after we see how the 2012 free agency plays out. Whats the rush with trading Rondo away ?

Yes, let's sign Chris Paul in free agency to pair with Rondo and Perk. That's a 4-5 year guaranteed championship run.

The premise of the discussion is that the top tier guys, which only Chris Paul IMO is one of them aren't going to come here. That leaves this ragtag group of guys will be what you are left with. Nice players, but not a championship team. Let's say you get 2 of them even. Is Rondo, and Love and OJ Mayo going to win championships?! Not a chance!

You won't win a championship when your only superstar is a PG. Especially when he is a mediocre shooter at best. Most championship teams have their superstars at the 3 and the 4. We need to trade our only valuable asset at that time, Rondo, for a superstar 3-4 if possible, or a couple of tier 2 guys and a lottery pick. Otherwise our future is Rondo leaving in 4 years for nothing (sign and trade if we were real lucky) and we are now the Cleveland Cavs. Just ask them or Toronto...

If you want to guarantee mediocrity through the following 10 years, just go ahead and hang on to your only star that can't even get us in the playoffs by himself.


I love Rondo's game and would love to see him retire a Celtic. If I knew we could get a star and a couple tier 2 guys to put with him I'd prefer that over any other option. I would rather use him to rebuild and come back quickly though,  than see him walk after a couple horrible years leaving us to be a perennial lottery team.

no it wouldn't be Rondo, Paul and Perk. Obviously if we sign Paul we won't need Rondo, so he can be used as a s+ t to get pauland still have the cap room to sign another max guy or We sign Paul and then trade Rondo for another player with a close to max contract.

The point is that Rondo could very well land you a franchise player , especially if the team is going to lose them for nothing. Why in the world would you trade Rondo for anything other than a superstar, it just doesnt make sense.

If like you say the c's will stink with just rondo then why not let them stink for a few years and get high lottery pick instead of trading rondo away for a tier 2 player( who won't be as good as rondo anyway) and a pick. it's called a lottery for a reason .

I see. So your new solution is to do what I suggested in the first place?!

The reason you don't let them stink for a few years is because at that point Rondo will be a free agent and will pick up his bags and go. His value will be lowered since many will believe he only played well due to the big 3, and we will end up with crap in a trade back or nothing at all. If that is what will happen, trade him in 2 years when his stock is highest and give yourself a chance at getting a big payback.

[EJPLAYA]

EJ, why are you always so angry and confrontational? Lol.

I'll do you one better: KG came here. No, he wasn't a free agent at the time, but he had the power to reject the trade. He didn't. And might I add, we signed him to a pretty hefty extension to help the trade to go through showing that if we have the money to spend and the opportunity is there we can attract big players.

He says confrontationally... Insulting someone and putting LOL behind it doesn't quite make personal insults okay. I'm not sure you where you are reading in my post that I insulted someone or was confrontational. I asked a question that if we are putting all our eggs in the "bring in a couple top tier free agents to play with Rondo" basket after these guys are gone, aren't we being a little presumptive since no big free agents have ever come here?

KG first of all turned down coming here and when he got the full court press from Pierce, Ray Allen was signed here, and there weren't any better options out there he decided to. Yes I think he is glad he did after the fact, but that wasn't his #1 option. If he had complete control it's unlikely he would have.

Relax, dude. I didn't insult you, it's called sarcasm. So breath, exhale. Calm. Trust me, if I wanted to insult you I'd do it straight out, no lol.

The Lakers also were trying to get KG, so he could've went there. As far as Ray and Paul "full court pressing" him, that's part of the recruitement process and all teams use it to some extent to gain an advantage in negotiation, so I'm not sure what your point is in that regard.

With all that said, this is pretty much a moot point. We have yet to really pursue a big name in free agency. It's not like we're continuously going after guys and they're rejecting us. We work within our financial contraints and use the strengths of our franchise (history, a chance to win) to bring in the guys we need. In 2012, if we hit free agency hard and come up empty, I'll start to panic then.

That's okay. It is very clear that certain people on here are allowed to be as confrontational and threatening all they want and others can't even come any where near the line and get suspended. You can drop the LOL's on your insults because you're obviously on the former list. How about next time attacking the point I made versus me individually though. You might have an easier time getting your point across. Insulting someone and putting LOL at the end doesn't qualify as sarcasm though.

"Hey Scalabrine… You are a worthless loser with absolutely no game and should be cleaning toilets versus playing in the NBA you pasty redhead! LOL"  No, it's okay guys, he said LOL at the end so it must have been sarcastic!

[Roy H.]

Simmer down, guys. 

[freshinthehouse]

This is a ridiculous statement that some people around here keep bringing up. Since the CBA has been put in place the C's have never been in a position to land a top tier FA. When have they had cap room since the early 90's? the answer is never .

This is all that needs to be said.

[CelticG1]

Maybe this has already been addressed but what exactly classify's as a tier 1 free agent? Is that an all-star or better?

I have a short memory so I can't really remember what it was like before the big 3 as far as getting free agents. I was a lot less aware of the cap, and how salaries worked etc. All I know is that we were pretty bad for several seasons and figured that was a major reason why we weren't attracting teams.

I feel like this past year was the only year where there were multiple free agent stars on the market. Other than that isn't just a couple studs each year? Isn't there only a small amount of teams that can even go after these players?

I just don't really remember the last time the Celtics made a run a top tier free agent where the player chose somewhere else. And if there was a situation like that, what era was that in? During the Pitino years? M.L Carr's year?

If anything I think we are at least in a better position now to get a free agent than in years past. Winning is a huge thing along with deep pockets and we've been showing we are committed to both those things in the last few years.