Why can't Boston attract a Tier 1 Free Agent?!

[Edgar]

Winning is a huge thing along with deep pockets

I dont know how deep pockets are but winning bring us a couple of good ones
so lets see after 2yyears how that worked out

[Snakehead]

Since "Tier 1" is so subjective, I decided to put together a list of All-Star players who changed teams the season after being an All-Star via either signing as a free agent or through a sign-and-trade.

(This is off the top of my head, so feel let me know if I'm missing anything, but I researched most, and had to cut a lot of guys out who weren't All-Stars the year before, Nash being a big one, Boozer, Brand, among others).

Atlanta Hawks
Dikembe Mutombo '96

Boston Celtics
Dominique Wilkins '94
Dana Barros '95

Charlotte Bobcats

Chicago Bulls
Ben Wallace '06

Cleveland Cavaliers

Dallas Mavericks

Denver Nuggets
Kenyon Martin '04

Detroit Pistons

Golden State Warriors
David Lee '10

Houston Rockets
Scottie Pippen '99

Indiana Pacers

LA Clippers

LA Lakers
Shaquille O'Neal '96
Gary Payton '03

Memphis Grizzlies
Allen Iverson '09

Miami Heat
Juwan Howard '96 (but later voided)
LeBron James '10
Chris Bosh '10

Milwaukee Bucks
Anthony Mason '01

Minnesota Timberwolves

New Jersey Nets

New Orleans Hornets

New York Knicks
Amare Stoudemire '10

Seattle Supersonics/Oklahoma City Thunder

Orlando Magic
Grant Hill '00

Philadelphia Sixers
Allen Iverson '09

Phoenix Suns
Danny Manning '94

Portland Trail Blazers

Sacramento Kings
Brad Miller '03

San Antonio Spurs

Toronto Raptors

Utah Jazz

Washington Wizards


I think the truth is, most teams don't sign Tier 1 free agents at all.  Most top guys re-sign with their current teams.  If you take out Allen Iverson who shouldn't have been an All-Star in '09, and the major free agents that signed in '96 and '10 then practically nobody has signed an All-Star free agent, and many of the ones who did were at the tail end of their careers (Payton, Miller, Manning).  Of course we could extend the list a little but then it gets very subjective - do you include guys like Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva in '09, Lamar Odom and Andre Miller in '03, Larry Hughes in '05?)

I think the fact that our guys are willing to re-sign shows that the city of Boston isn't a problem.  I mean Toronto has lost McGrady and Bosh, Cleveland has lost Boozer and LeBron, Detroit has lost Grant Hill and Ben Wallace.  Who have the C's not been able to keep?  Rodney Rogers? Tony Allen?

Another great post.  It's funny to see people glossing over well thought out, researched, logical posts and just keep arguing if we should trade Rondo for Chris Paul or something 

[rondohondo]

Also, for whatever it's worth, we've done okay with attracting Tier 2 free agents.  Rasheed was probably the most coveted mid-level free agent last year, and he had his pick of contenders to go to (San Antonio, Orlando, etc.)  He chose Boston.  Jermaine O'Neal did the same thing this past off-season.

At the very least, that shows that we can compete with other cities when it comes to attracting free agents.  When the money is even, guys have chosen to come here.

I don't disagree with this at all. I think we are destined to be a Tier 2 free agent market. I see us getting the same situation Chicago did in the offseason and instead of getting a Lebron and Bosh, getting  Boozer and Kyle Korver.

If we don't get at least 1 superstar level player to play with Rondo and a Tier 2 player or two to go along with them, we aren't going to win anything. Historically speaking I just don't see that happening. I think the best thing that we could do to increase our chances of competing for a title would be to trade Rondo and filler for a low draft pick and a couple Tier 2 guys and hope you draft the superstar. Otherwise I think we return to the 90's again. Pretending that someone of Tier 1 status will come here when history shows otherwise is kind of futile.

so your plan to be a contender after the big 3 are gone is to trade Rondo for a low draft pick and a couple of tier 2 players ? Rondo himself is a tier 2 player and is going to have a greater impact than any other tier 2 player you bring in .

And then hope to get lucky in the draft?

This sounds like a great plan if you want to relive the 90's all over again.

The C's will most likely have around 35 mil on their pay role in 2012 with

PP
Rondo
Bradley
Perk or BBD

That means they will still have a ton of cap space to bring in another free agent to help build around.

Guys like Chris Paul, Eric Gordon, Kevin Love, Dwight Howard, Javel McGee,Gerald Wallace,O.J. Mayo,Michael Beasley,Brook Lopez,   will/could be free agents . I would much rather take a shot at trying to sign one of these guys in 2012 than to just trade Rondo away. You can always trade him after we see how the 2012 free agency plays out. Whats the rush with trading Rondo away ?

Yes, let's sign Chris Paul in free agency to pair with Rondo and Perk. That's a 4-5 year guaranteed championship run.

The premise of the discussion is that the top tier guys, which only Chris Paul IMO is one of them aren't going to come here. That leaves this ragtag group of guys will be what you are left with. Nice players, but not a championship team. Let's say you get 2 of them even. Is Rondo, and Love and OJ Mayo going to win championships?! Not a chance!

You won't win a championship when your only superstar is a PG. Especially when he is a mediocre shooter at best. Most championship teams have their superstars at the 3 and the 4. We need to trade our only valuable asset at that time, Rondo, for a superstar 3-4 if possible, or a couple of tier 2 guys and a lottery pick. Otherwise our future is Rondo leaving in 4 years for nothing (sign and trade if we were real lucky) and we are now the Cleveland Cavs. Just ask them or Toronto...

If you want to guarantee mediocrity through the following 10 years, just go ahead and hang on to your only star that can't even get us in the playoffs by himself.


I love Rondo's game and would love to see him retire a Celtic. If I knew we could get a star and a couple tier 2 guys to put with him I'd prefer that over any other option. I would rather use him to rebuild and come back quickly though,  than see him walk after a couple horrible years leaving us to be a perennial lottery team.

no it wouldn't be Rondo, Paul and Perk. Obviously if we sign Paul we won't need Rondo, so he can be used as a s+ t to get pauland still have the cap room to sign another max guy or We sign Paul and then trade Rondo for another player with a close to max contract.

The point is that Rondo could very well land you a franchise player , especially if the team is going to lose them for nothing. Why in the world would you trade Rondo for anything other than a superstar, it just doesnt make sense.

If like you say the c's will stink with just rondo then why not let them stink for a few years and get high lottery pick instead of trading rondo away for a tier 2 player( who won't be as good as rondo anyway) and a pick. it's called a lottery for a reason .

I see. So your new solution is to do what I suggested in the first place?!

no actually your solution was to trade Rondo away for a draft pick and a second tier player . Mine is to sign Paul or Deron Williams if you can and then trade Rondo, or s+ t Rondo for one of them.

Like I said I in another post on the thread, these are the list of players I would trade Rondo for

Lebron
Durant
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Dwight Howard
Blake Griffen ( maybe in the future)

Rondo is in the list of top 10 players when it comes to having an impact on the game ( he might even be in the top 10 players overall ) You don't trade a guy like that away UNLESS you are getting a top ten ( under 27 years old ) player back. I wouldn't even trade Rondo for Dwayne Wade straight up because I think he has a bigger impact on the game and can make everyone around him better.

Now if we landed either Paul or Deron Williams, then I would consider packaging Rondo for a  second tier players( Kevin Love,Rudy Gay type of players )  because we would have an elite pg and no reason for Rondo. Unless Paul and Deron Williams are brought in I dont see Rondo going anywhere and that is a good thing.

Rondo could very well lead us to 2 championship in the next 2 years . Do you really want to trade a guy with that much big game experience away? If anything , you want to build around a guy that know how to win a championship.

Lets see what kind of free agents are available to put around Rondo in 2012 before trading him away for a player that won't have as great of an impact on each game.

[pearljammer10]

Also, for whatever it's worth, we've done okay with attracting Tier 2 free agents.  Rasheed was probably the most coveted mid-level free agent last year, and he had his pick of contenders to go to (San Antonio, Orlando, etc.)  He chose Boston.  Jermaine O'Neal did the same thing this past off-season.

At the very least, that shows that we can compete with other cities when it comes to attracting free agents.  When the money is even, guys have chosen to come here.

I don't disagree with this at all. I think we are destined to be a Tier 2 free agent market. I see us getting the same situation Chicago did in the offseason and instead of getting a Lebron and Bosh, getting  Boozer and Kyle Korver.

If we don't get at least 1 superstar level player to play with Rondo and a Tier 2 player or two to go along with them, we aren't going to win anything. Historically speaking I just don't see that happening. I think the best thing that we could do to increase our chances of competing for a title would be to trade Rondo and filler for a low draft pick and a couple Tier 2 guys and hope you draft the superstar. Otherwise I think we return to the 90's again. Pretending that someone of Tier 1 status will come here when history shows otherwise is kind of futile.

so your plan to be a contender after the big 3 are gone is to trade Rondo for a low draft pick and a couple of tier 2 players ? Rondo himself is a tier 2 player and is going to have a greater impact than any other tier 2 player you bring in .

And then hope to get lucky in the draft?

This sounds like a great plan if you want to relive the 90's all over again.

The C's will most likely have around 35 mil on their pay role in 2012 with

PP
Rondo
Bradley
Perk or BBD

That means they will still have a ton of cap space to bring in another free agent to help build around.

Guys like Chris Paul, Eric Gordon, Kevin Love, Dwight Howard, Javel McGee,Gerald Wallace,O.J. Mayo,Michael Beasley,Brook Lopez,   will/could be free agents . I would much rather take a shot at trying to sign one of these guys in 2012 than to just trade Rondo away. You can always trade him after we see how the 2012 free agency plays out. Whats the rush with trading Rondo away ?

Yes, let's sign Chris Paul in free agency to pair with Rondo and Perk. That's a 4-5 year guaranteed championship run.

The premise of the discussion is that the top tier guys, which only Chris Paul IMO is one of them aren't going to come here. That leaves this ragtag group of guys will be what you are left with. Nice players, but not a championship team. Let's say you get 2 of them even. Is Rondo, and Love and OJ Mayo going to win championships?! Not a chance!

You won't win a championship when your only superstar is a PG. Especially when he is a mediocre shooter at best. Most championship teams have their superstars at the 3 and the 4. We need to trade our only valuable asset at that time, Rondo, for a superstar 3-4 if possible, or a couple of tier 2 guys and a lottery pick. Otherwise our future is Rondo leaving in 4 years for nothing (sign and trade if we were real lucky) and we are now the Cleveland Cavs. Just ask them or Toronto...

If you want to guarantee mediocrity through the following 10 years, just go ahead and hang on to your only star that can't even get us in the playoffs by himself.


I love Rondo's game and would love to see him retire a Celtic. If I knew we could get a star and a couple tier 2 guys to put with him I'd prefer that over any other option. I would rather use him to rebuild and come back quickly though,  than see him walk after a couple horrible years leaving us to be a perennial lottery team.

no it wouldn't be Rondo, Paul and Perk. Obviously if we sign Paul we won't need Rondo, so he can be used as a s+ t to get pauland still have the cap room to sign another max guy or We sign Paul and then trade Rondo for another player with a close to max contract.

The point is that Rondo could very well land you a franchise player , especially if the team is going to lose them for nothing. Why in the world would you trade Rondo for anything other than a superstar, it just doesnt make sense.

If like you say the c's will stink with just rondo then why not let them stink for a few years and get high lottery pick instead of trading rondo away for a tier 2 player( who won't be as good as rondo anyway) and a pick. it's called a lottery for a reason .

I see. So your new solution is to do what I suggested in the first place?!

no actually your solution was to trade Rondo away for a draft pick and a second tier player . Mine is to sign Paul or Deron Williams if you can and then trade Rondo, or s+ t Rondo for one of them.

Like I said I in another post on the thread, these are the list of players I would trade Rondo for

Lebron
Durant
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Dwight Howard
Blake Griffen ( maybe in the future)

Rondo is in the list of top 10 players when it comes to having an impact on the game ( he might even be in the top 10 players overall ) You don't trade a guy like that away UNLESS you are getting a top ten ( under 27 years old ) player back. I wouldn't even trade Rondo for Dwayne Wade straight up because I think he has a bigger impact on the game and can make everyone around him better.

Now if we landed either Paul or Deron Williams, then I would consider packaging Rondo for a  second tier players( Kevin Love,Rudy Gay type of players )  because we would have an elite pg and no reason for Rondo. Unless Paul and Deron Williams are brought in I dont see Rondo going anywhere and that is a good thing.

Rondo could very well lead us to 2 championship in the next 2 years . Do you really want to trade a guy with that much big game experience away? If anything , you want to build around a guy that know how to win a championship.

Lets see what kind of free agents are available to put around Rondo in 2012 before trading him away for a player that won't have as great of an impact on each game.

These are the names I would certainly allow myself to discuss trading Rondo with. However, I would have to see what other pieces we could put in place before pulling the trigger for any of them. I like what Rondo can do with this system. I would have a tough time letting him go for any of these guys. I think he can be a leading point guard for many years to come. I mean if he keep averaging 14 assists per game I would much rather have him than Paul or Williams, especially if we continue to have other players that can carry the scoring load.

[Greenbean]

I think Miami, Orlando, LA and NY are always going to be the most attractive destinations due to weather and/or glamour, but Boston certainly has a shot at top free agents with the winning tradition, two all-stars in Rondo and Pierce, reputable management and.  It's not like we're Minnesota.

It would be really hard to lure a guy like Howard from Orlando though. 

I could 100% see Doc luring Dwight from Orlando.

Going from Stan who rides his guys in public like they are the MBTA to Doc who is the ultimate players coach (in the public anyway), would be like releasing the world off of Atlas' shoulders (Dwights shoulders might be bigger).

We finally have a coach who guys want to play for. Doc is respected league wide. Shaq wanted to come here and play for Doc. I think Dwight would too.

[rondohondo]

I think Miami, Orlando, LA and NY are always going to be the most attractive destinations due to weather and/or glamour, but Boston certainly has a shot at top free agents with the winning tradition, two all-stars in Rondo and Pierce, reputable management and.  It's not like we're Minnesota.

It would be really hard to lure a guy like Howard from Orlando though.  

I could 100% see Doc luring Dwight from Orlando.

Going from Stan who rides his guys in public like they are the MBTA to Doc who is the ultimate players coach (in the public anyway), would be like releasing the world off of Atlas' shoulders (Dwights shoulders might be bigger).

We finally have a coach who guys want to play for. Doc is respected league wide. Shaq wanted to come here and play for Doc. I think Dwight would too.

also Dwight Howard and Bill Russell seem to have a relationship similar to KG and Bill Russell, check out these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu0zYKVGxOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlbEzg_t6Ec


He is going to be the greatest defensive player of his generation, much like Russell. After he fails to win a championship these next 2 seasons and see's that he doesn't have that other superstar you need to win a championship and compete with the heat for the next 5 years, he will see Rondo and the Green and the legacy he could have if he wins multiple championships in a C's uniform  

Think about it

The Heat will have : Lebron, Wade and Bosh
The Bulls will have: Rose, Boozer and Noah
The Knick could have: Stoudamire, Melo and even chris Paul by 2012


Do you really think Dwight Howard could lead the team he has past those teams in the East ?( There won't be a chance of adding any better talent to that Magic team because no one wants Turk or Arenas and their contracts and Jameer Nelson is not going to land you a Chris Paul or Melo)

You put Howard with Rondo and you already have a dominate defensive team, Howard would easily average 25ppg with Rondo throwing alley oops perfectly. Wing scorers/defenders are much easier to find that a dominate center and a dominate PG. Not to mention those are the two positions the heat will be most vulnerable against for the next 5 years.


I know it is a lot of wishing and hoping, but there is a real chance this could happen .

[Chris]

I think Miami, Orlando, LA and NY are always going to be the most attractive destinations due to weather and/or glamour, but Boston certainly has a shot at top free agents with the winning tradition, two all-stars in Rondo and Pierce, reputable management and.  It's not like we're Minnesota.

It would be really hard to lure a guy like Howard from Orlando though. 

I could 100% see Doc luring Dwight from Orlando.

Going from Stan who rides his guys in public like they are the MBTA to Doc who is the ultimate players coach (in the public anyway), would be like releasing the world off of Atlas' shoulders (Dwights shoulders might be bigger).

We finally have a coach who guys want to play for. Doc is respected league wide. Shaq wanted to come here and play for Doc. I think Dwight would too.

That's assuming Doc will be here in a couple years, which is a big assumption.  I have a feeling Doc will be gone in the next 1-2 years.  The only reason he has stuck around is because of the big 3, and the hope of winning with them again.  Once they are gone, I think he will take a couple years off.

[Snakehead]

I think Miami, Orlando, LA and NY are always going to be the most attractive destinations due to weather and/or glamour, but Boston certainly has a shot at top free agents with the winning tradition, two all-stars in Rondo and Pierce, reputable management and.  It's not like we're Minnesota.

It would be really hard to lure a guy like Howard from Orlando though. 

I could 100% see Doc luring Dwight from Orlando.

Going from Stan who rides his guys in public like they are the MBTA to Doc who is the ultimate players coach (in the public anyway), would be like releasing the world off of Atlas' shoulders (Dwights shoulders might be bigger).

We finally have a coach who guys want to play for. Doc is respected league wide. Shaq wanted to come here and play for Doc. I think Dwight would too.

also Dwight Howard and Bill Russell seem to have a relationship similar to KG and Bill Russell, check out these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu0zYKVGxOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlbEzg_t6Ec


He is going to be the greatest defensive player of his generation, much like Russell. After he fails to win a championship these next 2 seasons and see's that he doesn't have that other superstar you need to win a championship and compete with the heat for the next 5 years, he will see Rondo and the Green and the legacy he could have if he wins multiple championships in a C's uniform 

The Celtics and Magic have really battled over the years so it's crazy to think about on one hand.

On the other hand, the idea of playing for a good defensive team where not so much pressure would be on him to be the teams only real defender and rebounder. And playing with Rondo, a creative PG instead of just a shooting PG like he has had, has to be appealing.  Look at the Rondo to KG alley that we've seen over the years and imagine a Rondo to Dwight one... wow.  You see some impressive ones from the passers that the Magic have and none of them are close to Rondo's caliber.

And I think SVG is a smart coach but I think the "Master of Panic" label is well deserved.  He is ultimately not that good of a coach because of it.  And Doc probably could lure him as a player's coach...


That being all said Chris is right in pointing out Doc may not be here.



It'd be funny because if Dwight came here he'd go from maybe my most hated player to one I'd probably love.  He is such a great defender.

[pearljammer10]

I think Miami, Orlando, LA and NY are always going to be the most attractive destinations due to weather and/or glamour, but Boston certainly has a shot at top free agents with the winning tradition, two all-stars in Rondo and Pierce, reputable management and.  It's not like we're Minnesota.

It would be really hard to lure a guy like Howard from Orlando though. 

I could 100% see Doc luring Dwight from Orlando.

Going from Stan who rides his guys in public like they are the MBTA to Doc who is the ultimate players coach (in the public anyway), would be like releasing the world off of Atlas' shoulders (Dwights shoulders might be bigger).

We finally have a coach who guys want to play for. Doc is respected league wide. Shaq wanted to come here and play for Doc. I think Dwight would too.

also Dwight Howard and Bill Russell seem to have a relationship similar to KG and Bill Russell, check out these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu0zYKVGxOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlbEzg_t6Ec


He is going to be the greatest defensive player of his generation, much like Russell. After he fails to win a championship these next 2 seasons and see's that he doesn't have that other superstar you need to win a championship and compete with the heat for the next 5 years, he will see Rondo and the Green and the legacy he could have if he wins multiple championships in a C's uniform 

The Celtics and Magic have really battled over the years so it's crazy to think about on one hand.

On the other hand, the idea of playing for a good defensive team where not so much pressure would be on him to be the teams only real defender and rebounder. And playing with Rondo, a creative PG instead of just a shooting PG like he has had, has to be appealing.  Look at the Rondo to KG alley that we've seen over the years and imagine a Rondo to Dwight one... wow.

And I think SVG is a smart coach but I think the "Master of Panic" label is well deserved.  He is ultimately not that good of a coach because of it.  And Doc probably could lure him as a player's coach...


That being all said Chris is right in pointing out Doc may not be here.



It'd be funny because if Dwight came here he'd go from maybe my most hated player to one I'd probably love.  He is such a great defender.

Dwight is really your most hated player? Im curious to why... I think he is an awesome dude. hes funny, hes exciting to watch, and he really brings out the passion for the game in his play and in his off court activities.

[Greenbean]

I think Miami, Orlando, LA and NY are always going to be the most attractive destinations due to weather and/or glamour, but Boston certainly has a shot at top free agents with the winning tradition, two all-stars in Rondo and Pierce, reputable management and.  It's not like we're Minnesota.

It would be really hard to lure a guy like Howard from Orlando though.  

I could 100% see Doc luring Dwight from Orlando.

Going from Stan who rides his guys in public like they are the MBTA to Doc who is the ultimate players coach (in the public anyway), would be like releasing the world off of Atlas' shoulders (Dwights shoulders might be bigger).

We finally have a coach who guys want to play for. Doc is respected league wide. Shaq wanted to come here and play for Doc. I think Dwight would too.

That's assuming Doc will be here in a couple years, which is a big assumption.  I have a feeling Doc will be gone in the next 1-2 years.  The only reason he has stuck around is because of the big 3, and the hope of winning with them again.  Once they are gone, I think he will take a couple years off.

I refuse to believe this.


Im giving you a TP but this time it stands for

Turd in the
Punch bowl

(I realize you are 100% right by the way!)

[JSD]

OP,

Cold weather.

[Moranis]

The weather and taxes are atrocious and the cost of living is also very high (not NYC high, but still way higher then most NBA franchise locations).

[rondohondo]

I think Miami, Orlando, LA and NY are always going to be the most attractive destinations due to weather and/or glamour, but Boston certainly has a shot at top free agents with the winning tradition, two all-stars in Rondo and Pierce, reputable management and.  It's not like we're Minnesota.

It would be really hard to lure a guy like Howard from Orlando though.  

I could 100% see Doc luring Dwight from Orlando.

Going from Stan who rides his guys in public like they are the MBTA to Doc who is the ultimate players coach (in the public anyway), would be like releasing the world off of Atlas' shoulders (Dwights shoulders might be bigger).

We finally have a coach who guys want to play for. Doc is respected league wide. Shaq wanted to come here and play for Doc. I think Dwight would too.

That's assuming Doc will be here in a couple years, which is a big assumption.  I have a feeling Doc will be gone in the next 1-2 years.  The only reason he has stuck around is because of the big 3, and the hope of winning with them again.  Once they are gone, I think he will take a couple years off.

I refuse to believe this.


Im giving you a TP but this time it stands for

Turd in the
Punch bowl

(I realize you are 100% right by the way!)

yea I'm with you

If Doc has a chance to coach a team with Rondo and Howard on it , do you really think he will leave?

All his kids will be in college by 2012( I think) so its not like he would be spending time at home with his kids .

I really believe Doc will be here past 2012, I think Jackie McMullen said the same thing, I will try to find the article.

[dpaps]

I think the players know more about the Celtics than you think.  I clearly recall disdain and shock on PP's face once he was drafted here.  Granted that was years ago but a lot of the kids today grew up Laker or Bulls fans and we are not in the mix as a team someone wants to come to play.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the pressure of measuring up to the Celtics Pantheon.   Its huge really, playing in the shadow of Russell, Cousy, Bird, McHale, Cowens and Havlicek.  

I think having Doc helps us a lot to sign peeps.   We have not exactly had players coaches in the past.

Pierce was angry he got drafted 10th, he thought he was going to be picked in the top 3 or 4.

Pierce grew up in Inglewood, which is central Los Angeles. It's where the Forum is, he literally grew up down the street from the Lakers home, during the middle of the Celtics-Lakers rivalry. He HATED the Celtics as much as most of us hate the Lakers. Saying PP was disappointed to be drafted by Boston doesn't necessarily reflect the way any other player would feel.

[Snakehead]

I think Miami, Orlando, LA and NY are always going to be the most attractive destinations due to weather and/or glamour, but Boston certainly has a shot at top free agents with the winning tradition, two all-stars in Rondo and Pierce, reputable management and.  It's not like we're Minnesota.

It would be really hard to lure a guy like Howard from Orlando though. 

I could 100% see Doc luring Dwight from Orlando.

Going from Stan who rides his guys in public like they are the MBTA to Doc who is the ultimate players coach (in the public anyway), would be like releasing the world off of Atlas' shoulders (Dwights shoulders might be bigger).

We finally have a coach who guys want to play for. Doc is respected league wide. Shaq wanted to come here and play for Doc. I think Dwight would too.

also Dwight Howard and Bill Russell seem to have a relationship similar to KG and Bill Russell, check out these videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu0zYKVGxOQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlbEzg_t6Ec


He is going to be the greatest defensive player of his generation, much like Russell. After he fails to win a championship these next 2 seasons and see's that he doesn't have that other superstar you need to win a championship and compete with the heat for the next 5 years, he will see Rondo and the Green and the legacy he could have if he wins multiple championships in a C's uniform 

The Celtics and Magic have really battled over the years so it's crazy to think about on one hand.

On the other hand, the idea of playing for a good defensive team where not so much pressure would be on him to be the teams only real defender and rebounder. And playing with Rondo, a creative PG instead of just a shooting PG like he has had, has to be appealing.  Look at the Rondo to KG alley that we've seen over the years and imagine a Rondo to Dwight one... wow.

And I think SVG is a smart coach but I think the "Master of Panic" label is well deserved.  He is ultimately not that good of a coach because of it.  And Doc probably could lure him as a player's coach...


That being all said Chris is right in pointing out Doc may not be here.



It'd be funny because if Dwight came here he'd go from maybe my most hated player to one I'd probably love.  He is such a great defender.

Dwight is really your most hated player? Im curious to why... I think he is an awesome dude. hes funny, hes exciting to watch, and he really brings out the passion for the game in his play and in his off court activities.

I don't hate him like say how some people on this board might hate LeBron.  I don't think he is a bad person or any of that. 

I am a Celtics fan raised, but am a fan of LeBron and the Cavs (used to live in Cleveland for a while) and so I've always had that LeBron/Cavs vs Celtics rivalry over the past few years as a kind of weird thing where I always wanted us to win but still have LeBron and the Cavs do well.

So in the East it's always been Magic vs Us as my big rivalry.  And while I respect Howard very much as a player, I have rooted very hard against him.  He has virtually no post game so I love hating on him for that and his "all smiles" demeanor is fine, at times it's too much.  And he throws elbows like a mad man somtimes, and while some of them are uninentional if still super dangerous, some have absolutely been intentional.  To be honest last season's playoffs made me have some legitimate hate with the elbow throwing but we will see.  It's not something he does consistently but in our series it got WAY out of hand.

And my dislike for the Magic in general also throws him in.  Especially Stan Van Gundy, who I think is a smart coach but incredibly unlikable and undependable.  Again, definitely the "Master of Panic".

All that being said I think he is an incredible defender, one of the all time best, and rebounder.  And he has been asked to bear a huge load over the years unfairly and unsoundly IMO in Orlando.


So basically, for me "hated" means I root against him like crazy.  I only "hate" players within the game, on the court, so maybe hate isn't even the right word.  But for me I wouldn't even consider "hating" a player personally for the way he plays a game or handles his business around that game so maybe I shouldn't even use the word.



And like I said, he dons the Celtics green and I love him for the rest of time.  So that shows you how my "hate" works.