Is Avery Bradley destined to be a Bust?!

[birdwatcher]

I'm sure if he got consistent playing time (read: not just one or two minutes here and there) he'd get into rhythm and at least play okay.  

It's very difficult for a raw rookie to come in and play a couple minutes at a time and actually play well.  He needs to be given the opportunity to learn and make mistakes while actually playing.

All of the above is why he needs to be in the D-league right now.

That's always easy to say when you have a guy who looks terrible out there. What about John Wall who is also a rookie and averaging 16.7 pts and 8.9 assists a game against NBA starters vs. 2nd and 3rd stringers. What about Blake Griffin? What about Jennings last year?! I know they get more minutes, but if Bradley didn't look so bad he'd get more too.

Face it. When a guy "has it" he typically looks like it right from the start. When he doesn't he fades away and is a "potential" type guy like a Gerald Green.

You seriously comparing Avery Bradley to John Wall and Blake Griffin?

You need to have your head checked if that is the case.

That's a bit harsh considering Bradley was rated higher than Wall coming out of high school a couple years ago.

[Celtics4ever]

Supposedly, he is a hard worker.

http://o.seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/jerrybrewer/2012192307_brewer24.html

Let's hope he sees the writing on the wall and works on his handle, jumper and D some more and he will be servicable.   A lot I've read about him is that he is more a SG but has PG height.  These guys are oft called combo guards.  But the thing about Avery is that he has a huge wingspan and can guard taller players.  He has the arms of a 6-7 guy.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Avery-Bradley-5285/

He is coming off an injury and missed camp.  He plays for a coach that doesn't care too much for rook's and is on a short leash.  I think Doc is harder on his guards because that is what he knows best.   Plenty of room for improvement and tons of potential.  I can't say that for niche specialist Tony Allen.  TA was great at what he did but this kid has the potential to be good on both sides of the ball.  He may be nothing but Ainge has been right more than wrong.   He doesn't look Marcus Banks or Gerald Green lost either yet.

[EJPLAYA]

He's a rookie, give him a break.

Did you make the same comment about Erden or Harangody in the threads questioning their abilities and NBA futures?

John Wall is a rookie. Don't give us this "he has more talent" excuse. Just recently the majority thought he didn't. I think you're right though. Wall DOES have more talent. That is the whole point of this. What he has shown so far on the court is ineptitude on the offensive side of the ball and very few flashes of the defensive ability that we hope he has. He is without the necessary ball handling skills needed to be a PG in this league which is the only position he has the size to play. It's one thing to say he just needs experience, but another to not have the dribbling skill to do anything with that court time. He is a bad ball handler. Show me a successful pg in this league who can't dribble well.

You do realize that the Celtics didn't pass on John Wall to draft Bradley right?  There is a reason Bradley was drafted 18 picks after Wall.  Why use Wall as a comparison?  If you want to call Bradley a bad pick please give us a list of the players available at pick 19 you would have chosen instead...with the benefit of hindsight.

Did you know that Reggie Lewis averaged just 4.5 pts 1.3 Reb & 0.5 Assist a game as a rookie?  He was 2 1/2 years older than Bradley that year and had the same issue with trying to get playing time with a veteran NBA title contending team.

Give the kid some time to grow into his potential.  It's way too early to evaluate him.

I was watching the Celtics back before Bird, so yes I remember Reggie Lewis very well. I don't need to go back on the web and reminding myself of his stats. Reggie came out and IMMEDIATELY showed NBA game. It was clear he was a key part of the teams future. Bradley looks more likely to be a 3 and off to Europe at this stage.

Of course John Wall is a great comparison. He was rated ahead of him, plays the same position, is also a rookie this year… He was out there on the court taking time from Gilbert Arenas. Bradley can't even take PG time away from Marquis Daniels! Why?! Because the man can't dribble!

Funny how you want to reject my premise based on "give him time" but won't answer the question of how he will ever be a PG when he clearly has no ball handling skills! Answer that first and then we can talk about his future. It isn't at the 2 or the 3. I sincerely doubt at this point that it is at the one either. I'd love to be wrong.

[birdwatcher]

He's a rookie, give him a break.

Did you make the same comment about Erden or Harangody in the threads questioning their abilities and NBA futures?

John Wall is a rookie. Don't give us this "he has more talent" excuse. Just recently the majority thought he didn't. I think you're right though. Wall DOES have more talent. That is the whole point of this. What he has shown so far on the court is ineptitude on the offensive side of the ball and very few flashes of the defensive ability that we hope he has. He is without the necessary ball handling skills needed to be a PG in this league which is the only position he has the size to play. It's one thing to say he just needs experience, but another to not have the dribbling skill to do anything with that court time. He is a bad ball handler. Show me a successful pg in this league who can't dribble well.

You do realize that the Celtics didn't pass on John Wall to draft Bradley right?  There is a reason Bradley was drafted 18 picks after Wall.  Why use Wall as a comparison?  If you want to call Bradley a bad pick please give us a list of the players available at pick 19 you would have chosen instead...with the benefit of hindsight.

Did you know that Reggie Lewis averaged just 4.5 pts 1.3 Reb & 0.5 Assist a game as a rookie?  He was 2 1/2 years older than Bradley that year and had the same issue with trying to get playing time with a veteran NBA title contending team.

Give the kid some time to grow into his potential.  It's way too early to evaluate him.

I was watching the Celtics back before Bird, so yes I remember Reggie Lewis very well. I don't need to go back on the web and reminding myself of his stats. Reggie came out and IMMEDIATELY showed NBA game. It was clear he was a key part of the teams future. Bradley looks more likely to be a 3 and off to Europe at this stage.

Of course John Wall is a great comparison. He was rated ahead of him, plays the same position, is also a rookie this year… He was out there on the court taking time from Gilbert Arenas. Bradley can't even take PG time away from Marquis Daniels! Why?! Because the man can't dribble!

Funny how you want to reject my premise based on "give him time" but won't answer the question of how he will ever be a PG when he clearly has no ball handling skills! Answer that first and then we can talk about his future. It isn't at the 2 or the 3. I sincerely doubt at this point that it is at the one either. I'd love to be wrong.

He's a small 2. Like Nate and Eddie House. Ball handling can be improved, he's supposed to be  a solid mid range shooter which would be great if he could find his range. He's still trying to find his spots, he dribbles too much in the front court and has a hard time bringing it up against pressure. It doesn't mean he's a bust just yet, but he's clearly not comfortable playing with the big boys.

[EJPLAYA]

He's a rookie, give him a break.

Did you make the same comment about Erden or Harangody in the threads questioning their abilities and NBA futures?

John Wall is a rookie. Don't give us this "he has more talent" excuse. Just recently the majority thought he didn't. I think you're right though. Wall DOES have more talent. That is the whole point of this. What he has shown so far on the court is ineptitude on the offensive side of the ball and very few flashes of the defensive ability that we hope he has. He is without the necessary ball handling skills needed to be a PG in this league which is the only position he has the size to play. It's one thing to say he just needs experience, but another to not have the dribbling skill to do anything with that court time. He is a bad ball handler. Show me a successful pg in this league who can't dribble well.

You do realize that the Celtics didn't pass on John Wall to draft Bradley right?  There is a reason Bradley was drafted 18 picks after Wall.  Why use Wall as a comparison?  If you want to call Bradley a bad pick please give us a list of the players available at pick 19 you would have chosen instead...with the benefit of hindsight.

Did you know that Reggie Lewis averaged just 4.5 pts 1.3 Reb & 0.5 Assist a game as a rookie?  He was 2 1/2 years older than Bradley that year and had the same issue with trying to get playing time with a veteran NBA title contending team.

Give the kid some time to grow into his potential.  It's way too early to evaluate him.

I was watching the Celtics back before Bird, so yes I remember Reggie Lewis very well. I don't need to go back on the web and reminding myself of his stats. Reggie came out and IMMEDIATELY showed NBA game. It was clear he was a key part of the teams future. Bradley looks more likely to be a 3 and off to Europe at this stage.

Of course John Wall is a great comparison. He was rated ahead of him, plays the same position, is also a rookie this year… He was out there on the court taking time from Gilbert Arenas. Bradley can't even take PG time away from Marquis Daniels! Why?! Because the man can't dribble!

Funny how you want to reject my premise based on "give him time" but won't answer the question of how he will ever be a PG when he clearly has no ball handling skills! Answer that first and then we can talk about his future. It isn't at the 2 or the 3. I sincerely doubt at this point that it is at the one either. I'd love to be wrong.

He's a small 2. Like Nate and Eddie House. Ball handling can be improved, he's supposed to be  a solid mid range shooter which would be great if he could find his range. He's still trying to find his spots, he dribbles too much in the front court and has a hard time bringing it up against pressure. It doesn't mean he's a bust just yet, but he's clearly not comfortable playing with the big boys.

If he has to be a small 2 then he's a bust. If he can't play the point, which many are obviously questioning, he's a bust. That's a second round talent, not where he was taken.

If you are 6'2" and in the NBA and haven't learned to dribble by now I've got news for you. You'll never be able to dribble. This level EXPOSES guys who can't dribble well and I think sadly this is what we are seeing. He definitely is not going to go from a terrible ball handler to one who can well enough to run the point based on "practice" ! We tried making Delonte into a PG as well. He can't dribble well enough. The difference is Delonte is bigger and also showed no fear from day one. He had "it". Bradley so far has shown none of that.

[slamtheking]

I think it's too early to label him a bust but I'd be lying if I wasn't discouraged by what he's shown so far.

He hasn't shown the 'it' factor others here have mentioned.  I do believe that those that will make it show some ability early on.   Bradley hasn't shown that yet.   to be honest, he's shown less than every other pick Danny has made.  GG at least showed he could shoot.  Giddens could play some D and could hit a shot (when he took one).  Pruitt had a far better handle.  Walker had confidence and energy. 

His ball handling is horrid.  His D is decent.  His shot is off although his form is decent. 

I didn't expect him to see the court at all this year and ideally he wouldn't have.  I hope he gets time in Maine to develop this year because god knows he needs that development. 

[Birdbrain]

He cannot shoot. He cannot run the offense, his handle is suspect too. He has the tools to defend, but I was at the game on Thursday and his defense was not inspiring, let's chalk it up to a lack of practice time due to injury and little opportunity. He lacks the size to play SG full time IMO.

I guess medium case scenario is Tony Allen with less size, but more brains and better handle?

These declarations are premature, to say the least. He's a rookie on a champ caliber team who got no training camp and no preseason.

If nba executives judged players so hastily -- and in such blanket, black and white terms -- they'd be gone about as quick as the body of work we've seen from this kid before pigeon-holing him here.

How is that black and white? The only absolute statements are he cannot shoot or run the offense (right now.) I'm not saying he won't ever. BTW - being as good as TA would be quite a feet, many players drafted in the low teens never get that good or hang around for that long (and play key roles on some very good teams.) And I said that's mid case scenario. As of right now he's not bringing much to the table, including defensively (while there may be very good reason as to why) no one has indicated that its not a true statement.

Yes no one can prove to you that he will be great because he hasn't been great.  Right on.   

That's not what I said - I said no one has refuted his badness in those specific areas. Nice try though.

How can someone refute something without facts to refute it? He's been horrible in the whole 10 minutes he's played this season.  Let me put it this way I'll go with Doc takes on Avery over anyone on this blogs.  My own opinion is that he going to be monster on defense.  Will it happen who knows but, lets revisit it in a few years.

[Birdbrain]

BTW Rondo and Billups were both MUCH MUCH better over their first year in the league, its not even a comparison. AB has a -6 PER right now - that's terrible bad, not ready for the NBADL bad.

Again their may be valid reasons why, but at this point you to be worried he just sucks...

No you don't unless you have no concept of how rookies have progressed throughout the history of the NBA.  But by all means please worry without sufficient evidence to worry.

[Chris]

BTW Rondo and Billups were both MUCH MUCH better over their first year in the league, its not even a comparison. AB has a -6 PER right now - that's terrible bad, not ready for the NBADL bad.

Again their may be valid reasons why, but at this point you to be worried he just sucks...

No you don't unless you have no concept of how rookies have progressed throughout the history of the NBA.  But by all means please worry without sufficient evidence to worry.

I have seen plenty of rookies progress through the history of the NBA.  Rarely have I seen ones look as bad as Bradley has (in a small sample size).

Now, part of that is probably that most guys at Bradley's point of development would not even dress at this point, let alone play, but that is what they have had to do.  But regardless, based on "how rookies have progressed throughout the history of the NBA", Bradley is still looking very bad at the moment, and he would have to be the exception rather than the rule to be a quality NBA player.

[Birdbrain]

BTW Rondo and Billups were both MUCH MUCH better over their first year in the league, its not even a comparison. AB has a -6 PER right now - that's terrible bad, not ready for the NBADL bad.

Again their may be valid reasons why, but at this point you to be worried he just sucks...

No you don't unless you have no concept of how rookies have progressed throughout the history of the NBA.  But by all means please worry without sufficient evidence to worry.

I have seen plenty of rookies progress through the history of the NBA.  Rarely have I seen ones look as bad as Bradley has (in a small sample size).

Now, part of that is probably that most guys at Bradley's point of development would not even dress at this point, let alone play, but that is what they have had to do.  But regardless, based on "how rookies have progressed throughout the history of the NBA", Bradley is still looking very bad at the moment, and he would have to be the exception rather than the rule to be a quality NBA player.

But we are very aware of the situation that he's been put in.  He barely played in preseason after knee surgery and he's 19 playing on a team where he's getting no time.  We know these things.  So comparing him to people in different situations and making some sort of proclamations is foolish.  But as I said worry away.  There is nothing he's done to prove that he will ever be good NBA player that is 100% true.  So if you want to make your your determination on that information fine.  I'll wait and go with Doc's impression of him until he's had time to prove otherwise.

[housecall]

Given the kid wasn't a top pick in the draft,missing training camp/pre-season,etc.,how much can we expect from him or any player in that situation.He probably need to start at the d-league where he can get the playing time needed to develop some more.In March/April bring him backup if they feel he's ready for the NBA.I wouldn't waste more than 1 season figuring it out if i was the GM.

[nickagneta]

The rush to judgment on this kid is astounding, especially given from some of the people who I thought had a pretty decent basketball eye that are doing so.

Anyone remember Robin Lopez' first couple of months in the league? What about Mike Conley Jr's? How about J.J. Redick's entire first season?

I think he has to be given some more time to take in the playbook(a very complex one compared to some) and adjust to NBA life before we throw him on the trash heap ala Joe Johnson and Chauncey Billups!!

[Chris]

BTW Rondo and Billups were both MUCH MUCH better over their first year in the league, its not even a comparison. AB has a -6 PER right now - that's terrible bad, not ready for the NBADL bad.

Again their may be valid reasons why, but at this point you to be worried he just sucks...

No you don't unless you have no concept of how rookies have progressed throughout the history of the NBA.  But by all means please worry without sufficient evidence to worry.

I have seen plenty of rookies progress through the history of the NBA.  Rarely have I seen ones look as bad as Bradley has (in a small sample size).

Now, part of that is probably that most guys at Bradley's point of development would not even dress at this point, let alone play, but that is what they have had to do.  But regardless, based on "how rookies have progressed throughout the history of the NBA", Bradley is still looking very bad at the moment, and he would have to be the exception rather than the rule to be a quality NBA player.

But we are very aware of the situation that he's been put in.  He barely played in preseason after knee surgery and he's 19 playing on a team where he's getting no time.  We know these things.  So comparing him to people in different situations and making some sort of proclamations is foolish.  But as I said worry away.  There is nothing he's done to prove that he will ever be good NBA player that is 100% true.  So if you want to make your your determination on that information fine.  I'll wait and go with Doc's impression of him until he's had time to prove otherwise.

Oh, I completely agree that it is pointless to try to evaluate him at this point.  But I just felt like you were going a bit far the other way to prove your point.  I think he is in a unique situation, which makes it tough to be positive or negative about. 

As for Doc's impression...take it with a grain of salt.  He is not going to tell us the truth about what he thinks of the kid.  He doesn't want to kill his confidence, or hurt his trade value anymore, if he really doesn't like him. 

[Neurotic Guy]

In quick scan of posts, it really looks like most here are far from decided about what will be the future of Avery Bradley.  Which is exactly as it should be.

[Brendan]

... redacted ...
How can someone refute something without facts to refute it? He's been horrible in the whole 10 minutes he's played this season.  Let me put it this way I'll go with Doc takes on Avery over anyone on this blogs.  My own opinion is that he going to be monster on defense.  Will it happen who knows but, lets revisit it in a few years.

The facts we do have say he's bad at all those areas. If you have no facts to refute it, which you don't then you shouldn't try and call me out over him being bad at those areas.

How many guys has Doc bad mouthed? Doc gives his real praise with PT when he needs PT, AB remains conspicuously hidden (behind Von Wafer!)