Is Avery Bradley destined to be a Bust?!

[Fafnir]

EJPLAYA, I don't think any of use have seen enough of Avery Bradley to make any sort of sweeping statments about his game. That doesn't mean I think there is anything wrong with discussing it. I'm not sure what is so inflammatory about saying its too soon to tell.

[EJPLAYA]

EJPLAYA, I don't think any of use have seen enough of Avery Bradley to make any sort of sweeping statments about his game. That doesn't mean I think there is anything wrong with discussing it. I'm not sure what is so inflammatory about saying its too soon to tell.

I think that if I went out on the floor for 2 minutes in a game it would be blatantly obvious that I don't have the dribbling ability or quickness (along with a laundry list of other things) to play PG in the NBA. You don't have to watch me play for a couple seasons to figure that out. You know from day one when someone doesn't have the fundamental skill to play the position. Bradley, to a very large number of individuals, is most likely in this group. The thread is a question to all if he is likely going to be a bust which I strongly believe based on pretty clear evidence that has him being jerked out of games by Doc. Why is it such a stretch for us to discuss it because you did state this. You said it was overly quick to even be able to ask that question. Seems to me that with all the support and agreement that this isn't the case. Why dismiss it with a broad brush versus giving legitimate reasons why it isn't the case?

[Interceptor]

The thread is a question to all if he is likely going to be a bust [...]

Not unless there are devious Internet Ninjas at work, since the thread title says "Is Avery Bradley destined to be a Bust?!" over here.  "Destined" means pre-determined, aka certainty, a sure thing.

The answer to that question, is an emphatic no.  He is not destined to be a bust.  He may be, or he may not be.  With the long list of asterisks that come along with his (public) performance so far, it'd be a fool's errand to extrapolate too much of his future from it.

[Fafnir]

EJPLAYA, I don't think any of use have seen enough of Avery Bradley to make any sort of sweeping statments about his game. That doesn't mean I think there is anything wrong with discussing it. I'm not sure what is so inflammatory about saying its too soon to tell.

I think that if I went out on the floor for 2 minutes in a game it would be blatantly obvious that I don't have the dribbling ability or quickness (along with a laundry list of other things) to play PG in the NBA. You don't have to watch me play for a couple seasons to figure that out. You know from day one when someone doesn't have the fundamental skill to play the position. Bradley, to a very large number of individuals, is most likely in this group. The thread is a question to all if he is likely going to be a bust which I strongly believe based on pretty clear evidence that has him being jerked out of games by Doc. Why is it such a stretch for us to discuss it because you did state this. You said it was overly quick to even be able to ask that question. Seems to me that with all the support and agreement that this isn't the case. Why dismiss it with a broad brush versus giving legitimate reasons why it isn't the case?

You may "know" something from day one, but I don't think you can reasonably justify it based upon our current data and observations. People stating emphaticly that Bradley "can't" do this and "can do this" firmly fall into giving opinions that aren't grounded upon much. We haven't seen enough of him on the court.

Honestly I'm not even sure why you're objecting so strenously to my opinion on this matter that its to early to talk about these things. Since your own argument is based on your opinion, and the fact that lot of people have opinions on the kid already.

I think this discussion is premature, the fact that we're having it doesn't automatically discount that point. People discuss things too early to tell all the time. We have a thread talking about Howard's FA after all.

[EJPLAYA]

EJPLAYA, I don't think any of use have seen enough of Avery Bradley to make any sort of sweeping statments about his game. That doesn't mean I think there is anything wrong with discussing it. I'm not sure what is so inflammatory about saying its too soon to tell.

I think that if I went out on the floor for 2 minutes in a game it would be blatantly obvious that I don't have the dribbling ability or quickness (along with a laundry list of other things) to play PG in the NBA. You don't have to watch me play for a couple seasons to figure that out. You know from day one when someone doesn't have the fundamental skill to play the position. Bradley, to a very large number of individuals, is most likely in this group. The thread is a question to all if he is likely going to be a bust which I strongly believe based on pretty clear evidence that has him being jerked out of games by Doc. Why is it such a stretch for us to discuss it because you did state this. You said it was overly quick to even be able to ask that question. Seems to me that with all the support and agreement that this isn't the case. Why dismiss it with a broad brush versus giving legitimate reasons why it isn't the case?

You may "know" something from day one, but I don't think you can reasonably justify it based upon our current data and observations. People stating emphaticly that Bradley "can't" do this and "can do this" firmly fall into giving opinions that aren't grounded upon much. We haven't seen enough of him on the court.

Honestly I'm not even sure why you're objecting so strenously to my opinion on this matter that its to early to talk about these things. Since your own argument is based on your opinion, and the fact that lot of people have opinions on the kid already.

I think this discussion is premature, the fact that we're having it doesn't automatically discount that point. People discuss things too early to tell all the time. We have a thread talking about Howard's FA after all.

How is it that your opinion as to whether it is too early discuss this is supposed to be just taken at face value while everyone else's opinion isn't a justified discussion?

I'm not objecting so strenuously to your opinion of whether he's a bust or not, I'm objecting so strenuously to your stepping in to tell everyone WHEN they are allowed to voice an opinion about a players abilities and "bust" status. Why is that necessary? If you feel he isn't a bust, then state why. (hopefully with some actual rationale) If you don't like the topic then why post in it and state that everyone commenting on it is wasting their time? Isn't that what this whole site is?

[nickagneta]

JR Giddens and Bill Walker and to some extent, Gabe Pruitt, never saw the floor early in their rookie years even when it was fairly obvious the games were over due to blowout or because they were desperately needed because of injury to others.

On the other hand, Doc is giving Bradley some early run,something he didn't do with any of the players mentioned above. He sees something in him that he didn't in the others and is using him when Doc's M.O. is to never use rookies unless he thinks they are NBA players. Is it because there are so many injuries? Maybe. But then again maybe not because in 2008-09 when half the team was injured Doc ran Pierce and Ray Allen out there 45 MPG rather than trot Walker and Giddens out on the floor.

[snowball]

and who's Doc giving Bradley time for ?
Ainge ? Doc didn't make that pick.
Lasme and Gallon are on the Red Claws..
Why not bring up Tiny Gallon ? sure he's only 19
but he's like 290 lbs and is 6'9'', a big and not shy
at all in the paint.
the kid has fire and I'd rather see him get minutes
personally.

[Fafnir]

EJPLAYA, I don't think any of use have seen enough of Avery Bradley to make any sort of sweeping statments about his game. That doesn't mean I think there is anything wrong with discussing it. I'm not sure what is so inflammatory about saying its too soon to tell.

I think that if I went out on the floor for 2 minutes in a game it would be blatantly obvious that I don't have the dribbling ability or quickness (along with a laundry list of other things) to play PG in the NBA. You don't have to watch me play for a couple seasons to figure that out. You know from day one when someone doesn't have the fundamental skill to play the position. Bradley, to a very large number of individuals, is most likely in this group. The thread is a question to all if he is likely going to be a bust which I strongly believe based on pretty clear evidence that has him being jerked out of games by Doc. Why is it such a stretch for us to discuss it because you did state this. You said it was overly quick to even be able to ask that question. Seems to me that with all the support and agreement that this isn't the case. Why dismiss it with a broad brush versus giving legitimate reasons why it isn't the case?

You may "know" something from day one, but I don't think you can reasonably justify it based upon our current data and observations. People stating emphaticly that Bradley "can't" do this and "can do this" firmly fall into giving opinions that aren't grounded upon much. We haven't seen enough of him on the court.

Honestly I'm not even sure why you're objecting so strenously to my opinion on this matter that its to early to talk about these things. Since your own argument is based on your opinion, and the fact that lot of people have opinions on the kid already.

I think this discussion is premature, the fact that we're having it doesn't automatically discount that point. People discuss things too early to tell all the time. We have a thread talking about Howard's FA after all.

How is it that your opinion as to whether it is too early discuss this is supposed to be just taken at face value while everyone else's opinion isn't a justified discussion?

I'm not objecting so strenuously to your opinion of whether he's a bust or not, I'm objecting so strenuously to your stepping in to tell everyone WHEN they are allowed to voice an opinion about a players abilities and "bust" status. Why is that necessary? If you feel he isn't a bust, then state why. (hopefully with some actual rationale) If you don't like the topic then why post in it and state that everyone commenting on it is wasting their time? Isn't that what this whole site is?

You're making a mountain out of a molehill, and equating my view that its too early to have definitive opinion with:

I'm not objecting so strenuously to your opinion of whether he's a bust or not, I'm objecting so strenuously to your stepping in to tell everyone WHEN they are allowed to voice an opinion about a players abilities and "bust" status. Why is that necessary?

How is stating my opinion telling people "WHEN they are allowed" to do anything?

If you want to discuss what I've said further I think we need to take it to PMs, because we're beyond Avery Bradley at this point.

[KobeShesNotConsenting!]

yea he must be a bust. I mean, after seein a few preseason and garbage time minutes from him, we can definitely make a valid evaluation of this kid's potential as an nba player. Totally makes sense.

[winsomme]

I'm not concerned about his offense, defense, or the fact that he's 6'2".

The only possible concern from my perspective is ball handling/dribbling (haven't seen him so no idea), which has gotten lots of attention in this disturbing thread.  

And it brings up a question:  is ball handling or just plain old dribbling the hardest thing for scouts to predict?  If so, is this due to the fact that many scouts brush it off, figuring, oh his handle will come around eventually and catch up with his ability to put the ball in the hole, his defense, etc....But then, in some cases it just doesn't catch up?  Or, they just can't dribble under NBA pressure?  I ask because the Celtics were bit by the dribbling issue with Gabe, J.R. and to some extent Tony (some extent because he made up for it a lot of times or had good stretches of ball handling).

Well, I think Bradley showed enough offense before entering the league...he may be a streaky scorer but he will score imo.  And he'll defend well.  The problem is will he ever get any time at 2-guard.  I was assuming that his long arms and defensive skills meant yes.  But the Celtics keep indicating it's PG or bust.  Or do they?

Even a 2-guard needs to be able to dribble well.  I hope if it is in fact broken that it's fixable!

I can't think of any players who came into the league unable to dribble and then became good dribblers.  I think he would be able to dribble by his age if it's going to be in the cards.  Sure, he can work on it, but I think it's a skill that you either have or don't have.

For now I'll just hope confidence is a big factor in his poor ballhandling.  But then again, how can a guy ever be confident when he has to worry about the oposition picking his pocket on every play.  It must be pretty scary for him.

I think you're a little quick in declaring him unable to dribble. Much like this thread is overly quick to ask a question on whether or not he's a bust. The kid has only played 38 minutes.

He has only played 38 minutes because he is so awful on the floor Doc can't GIVE him any more minutes. It is a real simple task to see if a guy can dribble or not. As many on here agree the guy can't. Otherwise he wouldn't be picking up the ball before or barely over half court when pressured. While a player can become a BETTER ball handler through his NBA career, he can't go from being a poor ball-handler to being a good one. He won't see enough court time to make much improvement, and you can either dribble at an NBA level PG or you can't. Complete scrubs come out there in the NBA that can't even make the team but can dribble the basketball. Bradley can't.

As far as it being "overly quick" to ask a question I'd have two thoughts. One would be why is  that when our first round pick who the team actually needs to play a few minutes due to injuries, and he gets quickly yanked out because he is so bad? There have been enough repeats of this to fairly ask this question. Two would be… Isn't this a blog. Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing is throwing out hypotheticals and having everyone discuss things?! There has been enough support on my side of the comment that it obviously isn't as ridiculous as you make it out to be. At least worth a debate since there have been 3200 plus reads and over 100 posts… Would it be more appropriate for us to start another "sign Toine" thread, or admitting your man love?! To each his own I guess.

I think the problem is that we have seen so many players get the KP tag over the years at such an early date only to later show life that it seems like the logical thing is to wait until we have a better, bigger sample before trying to conclude something like being a bust or not...

certainly criticizing his play so far is fair, but tagging him as someone who "kaynt" play at this point seems premature...

We had endless debates on here about Delonte years back and now we generally agree that (in his second time through here) we need to get him back sooner rather than later...

on your point of "that's what blogs are for...", I concede willingly that having these debates where both side are "irked" is the lifeblood of these forums....

[Chris]

For the first time in his career Avery Bradley looked like an NBA player...not a particularly good NBA player, but an NBA player.  We have progress!

[Jon]

Yeah, looked a little better tonight.  Unfortunately for him, we'll likely see little of him once everyone's healthy, and we may not see much of him until 2012-2013 given that Nate and Rondo are both here for two more years (though I suppose if Marquis and Delonte walk, there could be 15 mpg for him backing up Ray next year). 

Still can't believe there are 9 pages on such a ludicrously premature statement. 

[snively]

For the first time in his career Avery Bradley looked like an NBA player...not a particularly good NBA player, but an NBA player.  We have progress!

This was probably the result of him being moved to the 2-guard on offense and basically just left to rot in the corner. He still has no confidence/competence dribbling, passing or moving off-ball at an NBA level.  But at least those qualities could theoretically come with time.  His defensive tools/aggression are a nice building block for a future NBA player.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Yeah, looked a little better tonight.  Unfortunately for him, we'll likely see little of him once everyone's healthy, and we may not see much of him until 2012-2013 given that Nate and Rondo are both here for two more years (though I suppose if Marquis and Delonte walk, there could be 15 mpg for him backing up Ray next year). 

Still can't believe there are 9 pages on such a ludicrously premature statement. 

Either I can't read or it's some of you who cant? I am quite sure the thread title has a question mark. The OP was not making a statement but asking a question.

[Chris]

For the first time in his career Avery Bradley looked like an NBA player...not a particularly good NBA player, but an NBA player.  We have progress!

This was probably the result of him being moved to the 2-guard on offense and basically just left to rot in the corner. He still has no confidence/competence dribbling, passing or moving off-ball at an NBA level.  But at least those qualities could theoretically come with time.  His defensive tools/aggression are a nice building block for a future NBA player.

Yeah, I think that definitely helped.  I also think it helped that Philly didn't attack him nearly as bad as some of the other teams have the second he stepped on the floor.  They let him get a little comfortable on defense, and it allowed him to make some plays.

I am not going to go overboard here, but anything positive with this kid is huge right now.