Is Avery Bradley destined to be a Bust?!

[Chris]

Okay, HARDLY anyone comes back from there, even though there are some very good players there. For Bradley, all rookies need minutes in the game to develop an NBA game.

Some notables:

Rafer Alston, Louis Amundson, Chris Andersen, Kelenna Azubuike, Matt Barnes, Devin Brown, Will Bynum, Matt Carroll, Eddie Gill, Stephen Graham, Jason Hart, Chuck Hayes, Anthony Johnson, Dahntay Jones, Jamario Moon, Mikki Moore, Smush Parker, Bobby Simmons, Ime Udoka, Von Wafer, C. J. Watson, and Mike Wilks.José Juan Barea, Brandon Bass, Andray Blatche, Aaron Brooks, Jordan Farmar, Marcin Gortat, Ramon Sessions and Martell Webster.

All played in the NBDL, and have had a successful NBA career.

And you are right, guys need to play to develop.  But playing them in the NBA before they are ready can do more damage than good.  That is why the NBDL is there.

[Snakehead]

Okay, HARDLY anyone comes back from there, even though there are some very good players there. For Bradley, all rookies need minutes in the game to develop an NBA game.

Some notables:

Rafer Alston, Louis Amundson, Chris Andersen, Kelenna Azubuike, Matt Barnes, Devin Brown, Will Bynum, Matt Carroll, Eddie Gill, Stephen Graham, Jason Hart, Chuck Hayes, Anthony Johnson, Dahntay Jones, Jamario Moon, Mikki Moore, Smush Parker, Bobby Simmons, Ime Udoka, Von Wafer, C. J. Watson, and Mike Wilks.José Juan Barea, Brandon Bass, Andray Blatche, Aaron Brooks, Jordan Farmar, Marcin Gortat, Ramon Sessions and Martell Webster.

All played in the NBDL, and have had a successful NBA career.

And you are right, guys need to play to develop.  But playing them in the NBA before they are ready can do more damage than good.  That is why the NBDL is there.

Good post.  Also they made it easier for the teams to bring players up and send them down to the D-League this year, so I think you'll see more and more of that.

[Snakehead]

I shouldn't be surprised, but can't believe how prematurely people are judging Bradley.  Doc hardly plays rookies and Bradley is very young, he might as well of came out of high school.  I will wait and see with him, but he is not destined to be a bust, that's a pretty ridiculous statement.

Brendan -- I think you are correct that most players who make it in the NBA show something -- at least a hint -- in the early going.  But 2 other facts remain: Some show something and turn into nothing (Kedrick Brown); Some show nothing and turn into something (Perk).  I don't have the time for an exhaustive search on this, but 35 minutes of mostly garbage time cannot precisely foretell an NBA career for anyone, much less a defense-minded 20 year old who missed preseason. 

You can't use "some" show nothing and turn into something and then only give one example. (Perk) Perk actually did show something and that was size. He also showed an ability to rebound. 1.4 boards in 3.5 minutes isn't too shabby!

Fact is that almost no one comes out in their first year, training camp or no, and shows almost nothing out there and turns into a legit player.

I also cannot find the first 35 minutes of all NBA players in order find the ones who looked terrible statistically - I'm just guessing there have been 'some'.   And if you are going to draw positive conclusions from Perk's first 35 minutes and his 1.4 boards, you might have just found Avery Bradley's 'something' -- .4 steals in 5 minutes translates to about 3 steals per 36 minutes!  The league leader, Chris Paul is averaging a relatively pedestrian 2.8. 

Great post Neurotic.  You just can't judge rookies off super limited playing time.  In addition to your steal stat you mentioned compared to Perk's rebound stat, I'd also throw in Bradley's speed and quickness showing potential just like Perk's size did.

I agree with the fact that the stat is helpful. At least he made an attempt to back up his argument which is rare on here! TP Neurotic.

As far as the speed and quickness, why not just suit up Floyd Mayweather then. He's lightning fast. Oh that's right… He can't dribble either!

LOL, watching the 76ers game last night where Bradley stripped someone and dribbled cleanly coast to coast for 2 and I thought of your post.  Keep believing what you believe though man.  Hopefully you get that "Jump To Conclusions" matt for X-Mass this year.

[EJPLAYA]

I shouldn't be surprised, but can't believe how prematurely people are judging Bradley.  Doc hardly plays rookies and Bradley is very young, he might as well of came out of high school.  I will wait and see with him, but he is not destined to be a bust, that's a pretty ridiculous statement.

Brendan -- I think you are correct that most players who make it in the NBA show something -- at least a hint -- in the early going.  But 2 other facts remain: Some show something and turn into nothing (Kedrick Brown); Some show nothing and turn into something (Perk).  I don't have the time for an exhaustive search on this, but 35 minutes of mostly garbage time cannot precisely foretell an NBA career for anyone, much less a defense-minded 20 year old who missed preseason. 

You can't use "some" show nothing and turn into something and then only give one example. (Perk) Perk actually did show something and that was size. He also showed an ability to rebound. 1.4 boards in 3.5 minutes isn't too shabby!

Fact is that almost no one comes out in their first year, training camp or no, and shows almost nothing out there and turns into a legit player.

I also cannot find the first 35 minutes of all NBA players in order find the ones who looked terrible statistically - I'm just guessing there have been 'some'.   And if you are going to draw positive conclusions from Perk's first 35 minutes and his 1.4 boards, you might have just found Avery Bradley's 'something' -- .4 steals in 5 minutes translates to about 3 steals per 36 minutes!  The league leader, Chris Paul is averaging a relatively pedestrian 2.8. 

Great post Neurotic.  You just can't judge rookies off super limited playing time.  In addition to your steal stat you mentioned compared to Perk's rebound stat, I'd also throw in Bradley's speed and quickness showing potential just like Perk's size did.

I agree with the fact that the stat is helpful. At least he made an attempt to back up his argument which is rare on here! TP Neurotic.

As far as the speed and quickness, why not just suit up Floyd Mayweather then. He's lightning fast. Oh that's right… He can't dribble either!

LOL, watching the 76ers game last night where Bradley stripped someone and dribbled cleanly coast to coast for 2 and I thought of your post.  Keep believing what you believe though man.  Hopefully you get that "Jump To Conclusions" matt for X-Mass this year.

There you go. He makes one layup that he actually bumped the guy and should have been called for a foul on (I rewound it 3 times to be sure) and now he's a great dribbler?

Yes he looked a little better last night than some nights so far. He didn't however look like a PG. The first pass that went to him he couldn't catch cleanly. Dude is not a PG. I might believe potential to do what Nate does, or DWest, but that's his ceiling IMO.

Hopefully you get that matching shirt to go with those Green tinted glasses you must have got last year! (TP for making me laugh though)

[Roy H.]

I might believe potential to do what Nate does, or DWest, but that's his ceiling IMO.

If he ends up that good, I'll be perfectly fine with it.  Grabbing a decent rotation player with the 19th pick is a good find, although I'm hoping for more than that.

[Snakehead]

I shouldn't be surprised, but can't believe how prematurely people are judging Bradley.  Doc hardly plays rookies and Bradley is very young, he might as well of came out of high school.  I will wait and see with him, but he is not destined to be a bust, that's a pretty ridiculous statement.

Brendan -- I think you are correct that most players who make it in the NBA show something -- at least a hint -- in the early going.  But 2 other facts remain: Some show something and turn into nothing (Kedrick Brown); Some show nothing and turn into something (Perk).  I don't have the time for an exhaustive search on this, but 35 minutes of mostly garbage time cannot precisely foretell an NBA career for anyone, much less a defense-minded 20 year old who missed preseason. 

You can't use "some" show nothing and turn into something and then only give one example. (Perk) Perk actually did show something and that was size. He also showed an ability to rebound. 1.4 boards in 3.5 minutes isn't too shabby!

Fact is that almost no one comes out in their first year, training camp or no, and shows almost nothing out there and turns into a legit player.

I also cannot find the first 35 minutes of all NBA players in order find the ones who looked terrible statistically - I'm just guessing there have been 'some'.   And if you are going to draw positive conclusions from Perk's first 35 minutes and his 1.4 boards, you might have just found Avery Bradley's 'something' -- .4 steals in 5 minutes translates to about 3 steals per 36 minutes!  The league leader, Chris Paul is averaging a relatively pedestrian 2.8. 

Great post Neurotic.  You just can't judge rookies off super limited playing time.  In addition to your steal stat you mentioned compared to Perk's rebound stat, I'd also throw in Bradley's speed and quickness showing potential just like Perk's size did.

I agree with the fact that the stat is helpful. At least he made an attempt to back up his argument which is rare on here! TP Neurotic.

As far as the speed and quickness, why not just suit up Floyd Mayweather then. He's lightning fast. Oh that's right… He can't dribble either!

LOL, watching the 76ers game last night where Bradley stripped someone and dribbled cleanly coast to coast for 2 and I thought of your post.  Keep believing what you believe though man.  Hopefully you get that "Jump To Conclusions" matt for X-Mass this year.

There you go. He makes one layup that he actually bumped the guy and should have been called for a foul on (I rewound it 3 times to be sure) and now he's a great dribbler?

Yes he looked a little better last night than some nights so far. He didn't however look like a PG. The first pass that went to him he couldn't catch cleanly. Dude is not a PG. I might believe potential to do what Nate does, or DWest, but that's his ceiling IMO.

Hopefully you get that matching shirt to go with those Green tinted glasses you must have got last year! (TP for making me laugh though)

Thanks for the TP.  I'll judge my rookies off good, hard, defensive basketball plays instead of his .5 steals or whatever in his 2 minutes a game. I know in that one second he showed more promise and fire than Gabe Pruitt ever showed for example. Maybe that's just me though.  Actually probably not, since Doc and Danny think a lot of Avery.  But you're probably right 


As Roy said, getting a player of Nate or Delonte West's calibre at that point in the draft is good, maybe you don't remember the past few years?  Pruitt?  JR Giddens?  Also I don't even believe he is a PG, he is a defensive minded SG (undersized, but the long arms help make up for it) who can play PG in pinch, and I see him as basically a better Tony Allen without the bonehead plays.  But yeah, conclusions again, right?

[ozman]

How can everyone be so quick to call him a bust. He missed a pre season as a rookie and his only starting to find limited minutes now that rondo is out.

I remeber when rondo was a rookie, he found very limited playing time up intill pierce was injured and then the whole telfair situation. He realy didnt show much at all intill just before the all star break. Most people didnt give him a chance because he couldnt shoot, all the way up intill we won the championship.
I know they are two differnt players on differnt teams, but people saying he cant dribble or shoot, give him time to devalop. His already a solid defender, better then nate and maybe some starting point guards.

[thirstyboots18]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but Avery Bradley, whatever his ceiling is, very possibly will have a championship ring on his finger at the end of this year. 

[u2larkin04]

since we're comparing him to blake griffin and john wall can we trade him for one of them?

[LooseCannon]

Also I don't even believe he is a PG, he is a defensive minded SG (undersized, but the long arms help make up for it) who can play PG in pinch, and I see him as basically a better Tony Allen without the bonehead plays.  But yeah, conclusions again, right?

I actually don't think he can play PG in a pinch.  So, shorter, smarter Tony Allen who can't play minutes at PG but who does have a credible mid-range jumper is probably his best-case scenario for this season.  His ceiling in the future (and he's probably unlikely to reach his ceiling) is that he shows he can hit the three point shot consistently and is in the conversation for best perimeter defender in the NBA.

[thirstyboots18]

Since Doc and his team mates seem high on him, I hope we don't "Pitino" him like we did Chauncey Billips.  The two hardest positions to learn are point guard and center.  The young man is very young, and has had no practice time to learn his position.  The say he is an excellent defender and we have seen hints of that.  I say give him a chance.  We have a deep team and can afford to "grow" a couple of our rookies for a change.

[Snakehead]

since we're comparing him to blake griffin and john wall can we trade him for one of them?

Gross exaggeration is a bad way to prove your point, it turns out.

[Cman]

We didn't get a peek at Bradley during summer league.  If he had been able to play, I'm sure he would have wowed everyone (as SL is guard friendly, IMHO).  The funny thing about this is that instead of talking about "Bust" we'd all be clamoring for Doc's head for not playing our poor man's version of John Wall.

[EJPLAYA]

I might believe potential to do what Nate does, or DWest, but that's his ceiling IMO.

If he ends up that good, I'll be perfectly fine with it.  Grabbing a decent rotation player with the 19th pick is a good find, although I'm hoping for more than that.

If he ends up that good so would I, however I think most of us were under the impression when drafted that the guy could be a very good backup point guard. I've just lowered my ceiling to what I think is likely for him to attain. Yes it is early, and yes we could all be wrong in our opinions, but If he doesn't get to the level of Nate or DWest then I say that qualifies him as a bust. If he isn't at that level by the end of his rookie contract it is very likely that he will be out of the league. I really hope that he does end up getting to their level because surely we will lose one/both of them in a couple years.

I definitely hope I am wrong and was encouraged by some of his play last night. Doc obviously wasn't too impressed with it though as he didn't see any time in the second half. One steal every other game and no rebounds or assists in any of your games isn't going to get you a lot of playing time. Back to my original premise as many have neglected to remember, I hope DWest gets back in a hurry so that he can get to the DLeague and regain some confidence. If he does maybe he will play better and many of us will feel differently.

[droopdog7]

How can everyone be so quick to call him a bust. He missed a pre season as a rookie and his only starting to find limited minutes now that rondo is out.

I remeber when rondo was a rookie, he found very limited playing time up intill pierce was injured and then the whole telfair situation. He realy didnt show much at all intill just before the all star break. Most people didnt give him a chance because he couldnt shoot, all the way up intill we won the championship.
I know they are two differnt players on differnt teams, but people saying he cant dribble or shoot, give him time to devalop. His already a solid defender, better then nate and maybe some starting point guards.

I find this post to be perplexing. I thought rondo looked [dang] good his first year. While you could tell he couldn't shoot a lick, the rest of what we see in him now, you could seen then. I thought he clearly outplayed telfair and the only reason telfair was playing was because of the high draft pick we had given up to get him.

With Bradley, he clearly has potential as defender. And I'm not worried about his shot as he form looks decent and he shoots it nice and easy.

That said, he isn't a point guard. And if he hasn't developed his handle by now, don't beliEve he'll do it now. So bottom line is that Bradley has a long way to go. He is a project and sometimes they pan out but most of the times they don't.

We'll see.