Official Discuss your CB Draft team

[Fafnir]

When was the last time the best player at any position in the NBA didn't at least make the playoffs? How about the second best player at any position? It just doesn't happen.

2005 and 2006 - Kevin Garnett
2004 and 2006 - Allen Iverson
2006 - Paul Pierce
1998 - Grant Hill
1995 and 1995 and 1997 - Mitch Richmond
1992 - Hakeem Olajuwon

It actually happens more often than one would think.

Fixed.

Allen Iverson wasn't the best SG (that was Kobe) nor was he the best PG (that was Jason Kidd or Nash depending on taste)

AI was arguably second best, though, right?

I'm not a huge AI fan.

I'd rank Ray Allen higher certainly, T-Mac as well if you considered him a SG instead of a SF. Heck by 2006 Manu had probably passed him. Wade also would be higher in 2006 already.

[Evantime34]

When was the last time the best player at any position in the NBA didn't at least make the playoffs? How about the second best player at any position? It just doesn't happen.

2005 and 2006 - Kevin Garnett
2004 and 2006 - Allen Iverson
2006 - Paul Pierce
1998 - Grant Hill
1995 and 1995 and 1997 - Mitch Richmond
1992 - Hakeem Olajuwon

It actually happens more often than one would think.

Fixed.

Allen Iverson wasn't the best SG (that was Kobe) nor was he the best PG (that was Jason Kidd or Nash depending on taste)

AI was arguably second best, though, right?

I'm not a huge AI fan.

I'd rank Ray Allen higher certainly, T-Mac as well if you considered him a SG instead of a SF. Heck by 2006 Manu had probably passed him. Wade also would be higher in 2006 already.

I would make the argument that all the guys on that list either had nothing around them or young players that weren't ready yet.
I have a 24 year old borderline all star who should flourish finally playing with a good pg (Josh Smith).
A former All Star who is finally healthy (Josh Howard).
A veteran presence anchoring the back of my defense (Haywood).
and a second year player who is good enough to start on a 60 win Maverick team.

[Evantime34]

When was the last time the best player at any position in the NBA didn't at least make the playoffs? How about the second best player at any position? It just doesn't happen.

2005 and 2006 - Kevin Garnett
2004 and 2006 - Allen Iverson
2006 - Paul Pierce
1998 - Grant Hill
1995 and 1995 and 1997 - Mitch Richmond
1992 - Hakeem Olajuwon

It actually happens more often than one would think.

Fixed.

Allen Iverson wasn't the best SG (that was Kobe) nor was he the best PG (that was Jason Kidd or Nash depending on taste)

AI was arguably second best, though, right?

I'm not a huge AI fan.

I'd rank Ray Allen higher certainly, T-Mac as well if you considered him a SG instead of a SF. Heck by 2006 Manu had probably passed him. Wade also would be higher in 2006 already.

None of the players listed above were distributors who made their teams better. Most of the players on the list were scorers that didn't bring much else to the table.
Here's a list recap
KG: unselfish to the point that he was passing to bad players and they were missing, thus they missed the playoffs.
AI: scored while everyone else stood around, not a recipe for success.
Pierce: didn't really play that good defense yet and his team was terrible.
Grant Hill: not sure why they didn't make the playoffs that year, their pathagorean win total was 46-36 but they ended up 37-45, probably should have made the playoffs.
Mitch Richmond: didn't play defense, didn't go to the rack. He was good but didn't involve his teammates.
Hakeem: awful team.

[Who]

I agree. I think the Hawks have been easily one of the most under rated teams in this draft. They have what appears to be would be a great team defense and plus defenders at 4 starting positions and from at least one or two players from the bench. Their rebounding is good. They have one of the league's elite superduperstars.

I don't see what's not to like.

No primary wing defender, a small backcourt that is vulnerable on the backboards and defensively, and overall the lack of a scorer other than Durant.

Well, I would consider Durant a primary wing defender

6'4", 6'3" and 6'2" from your stating SG, PG and primary back up PG and I'm not sure being small is that big a deal given who the C's won the championship with at those same positions. Also, since when is being vulnerable on the backboards from your guard positions a huge deal? That's a semi-new one on me.

I also believe Brand off the bench and Okur can score just fine if not better than anyone that New York or Chicago has other than their primary scoring superstars.

Atlanta's GM said himself that during the season Durant would not be used as a primary wing defender, instead he'd used Hinrich and Butler.

If Durant is their primary defender his offense is very likely to suffer. Also I don't think the rotation of Okur and Brand is as good as others.

Basically they're very similar to the Chicago team or the real life Cavs.

But instead of LeBron they have Durant, which is a huge downgrade.

Memo Okur and Elton Brand are two of the worst defensive big men in the league that are playing major rotation minutes.

I also think Redick is vulnerable defensively as a starting SG + I think Hinrich is a good player as a PG but a fairly mediocre SG + that the squad lacks a backup for Durant (Butler plays poorly at SF).

---------------------------------------------------

I like other elements of the squad too but those were the reasons why they fell as far as they did on my ballot. I thought those weaknesses, particularly Brand + Okur, took away a lot of positives about the team.

[Who]

If it's JJ or Hinrich, Kobe is going off 12-14 in the first quarter and likely 35+ for the game.  If it's Durant playing D, I'm telling you, he will get awfully tired and it will affect his ability to then be the entire offense on the other end of the floor.

Agreed -- I don't think Durant has the stamina to shoulder that large of a load defensively + that large a load offensively for a whole game.

Durant can defend a player like Kobe Bryant in short spurts without it effecting his offense ... but over a whole game, he can defend Kobe but it'll hurt himself on the other end of the floor.

I do think Durant is ready to take another big step forward defensively next season though. To become a very good to excellent defensive SF.

[Rondo2287]

I agree. I think the Hawks have been easily one of the most under rated teams in this draft. They have what appears to be would be a great team defense and plus defenders at 4 starting positions and from at least one or two players from the bench. Their rebounding is good. They have one of the league's elite superduperstars.

I don't see what's not to like.

No primary wing defender, a small backcourt that is vulnerable on the backboards and defensively, and overall the lack of a scorer other than Durant.

Well, I would consider Durant a primary wing defender

6'4", 6'3" and 6'2" from your stating SG, PG and primary back up PG and I'm not sure being small is that big a deal given who the C's won the championship with at those same positions. Also, since when is being vulnerable on the backboards from your guard positions a huge deal? That's a semi-new one on me.

I also believe Brand off the bench and Okur can score just fine if not better than anyone that New York or Chicago has other than their primary scoring superstars.

Atlanta's GM said himself that during the season Durant would not be used as a primary wing defender, instead he'd used Hinrich and Butler.

If Durant is their primary defender his offense is very likely to suffer. Also I don't think the rotation of Okur and Brand is as good as others.

Basically they're very similar to the Chicago team or the real life Cavs.

But instead of LeBron they have Durant, which is a huge downgrade.

Memo Okur and Elton Brand are two of the worst defensive big men in the league that are playing major rotation minutes.

I also think Redick is vulnerable defensively as a starting SG + I think Hinrich is a good player as a PG but a fairly mediocre SG + that the squad lacks a backup for Durant (Butler plays poorly at SF).

---------------------------------------------------

I like other elements of the squad too but those were the reasons why they fell as far as they did on my ballot. I thought those weaknesses, particularly Brand + Okur, took away a lot of positives about the team.

I disagree Entirely, I think Elton Brand is an above average to  very good defender. Not only is he a good man to man defender but he is also a good help defender and blocks a good amount of shots.

[Who]

I agree. I think the Hawks have been easily one of the most under rated teams in this draft. They have what appears to be would be a great team defense and plus defenders at 4 starting positions and from at least one or two players from the bench. Their rebounding is good. They have one of the league's elite superduperstars.

I don't see what's not to like.

No primary wing defender, a small backcourt that is vulnerable on the backboards and defensively, and overall the lack of a scorer other than Durant.

Well, I would consider Durant a primary wing defender

6'4", 6'3" and 6'2" from your stating SG, PG and primary back up PG and I'm not sure being small is that big a deal given who the C's won the championship with at those same positions. Also, since when is being vulnerable on the backboards from your guard positions a huge deal? That's a semi-new one on me.

I also believe Brand off the bench and Okur can score just fine if not better than anyone that New York or Chicago has other than their primary scoring superstars.

Atlanta's GM said himself that during the season Durant would not be used as a primary wing defender, instead he'd used Hinrich and Butler.

If Durant is their primary defender his offense is very likely to suffer. Also I don't think the rotation of Okur and Brand is as good as others.

Basically they're very similar to the Chicago team or the real life Cavs.

But instead of LeBron they have Durant, which is a huge downgrade.

Memo Okur and Elton Brand are two of the worst defensive big men in the league that are playing major rotation minutes.

I also think Redick is vulnerable defensively as a starting SG + I think Hinrich is a good player as a PG but a fairly mediocre SG + that the squad lacks a backup for Durant (Butler plays poorly at SF).

---------------------------------------------------

I like other elements of the squad too but those were the reasons why they fell as far as they did on my ballot. I thought those weaknesses, particularly Brand + Okur, took away a lot of positives about the team.

I disagree Entirely, I think Elton Brand is an above average to  very good defender. Not only is he a good man to man defender but he is also a good help defender and blocks a good amount of shots.

Brand was a solid defender when he was younger before the injuries ... but now his legs are gone ... he can't move anymore ... and he is one of the biggest defensive liabilities in the league.

[Fafnir]

I can't honestly say I see what you're seeing Rondo2287, Brand was once a good defender. But since his injury and move to Philly I haven't seen it.

[Roy H.]

I can't honestly say I see what you're seeing Rondo2287, Brand was once a good defender. But since his injury and move to Philly I haven't seen it.

He's decent enough defending the post still.  He has also lost a lot of weight this summer, so he should get a lot of his mobility back.  His problem in Philly -- other than terrible coaching -- was that he got fat.

[Fafnir]

I can't honestly say I see what you're seeing Rondo2287, Brand was once a good defender. But since his injury and move to Philly I haven't seen it.

He's decent enough defending the post still.  He has also lost a lot of weight this summer, so he should get a lot of his mobility back.  His problem in Philly -- other than terrible coaching -- was that he got fat.

Decent in the post plus bad everywhere else still equals bad Roy.

I don't have faith that he's going to return to form like you do.

[Who]

My team is a playoff team, I have the best point guard in the league. When was the last time the best player at any position in the NBA didn't at least make the playoffs? How about the second best player at any position? It just doesn't happen. That's not to say I don't have good defensive veterans throughout the team and young athletic fliers to run with Deron.

I understand that some people don't view my team as a contender for a championship but for me to not make the playoffs is ridiculous.

I think I had your squad 9th or 10th in the West. Just outside the playoffs.

I think your team is a playoff caliber team in normal circumstances but there were a lot of very good teams in the West in this fantasy game and I thought they offered a little bit more than your roster.

The main reason why I did not put your team in the playoffs is Josh Howard. I don't have confidence in him to return from his injury and play at a high level anymore. I still like his defensive ability but I question his ability to be a good go-to scorer (efficiency?) + I don't think he can rebound his position (SF) anymore.

If Josh Howard did come back healthy + was able to regain his form of a few years ago ... I would have Minny in the playoffs.

[Evantime34]

My team is a playoff team, I have the best point guard in the league. When was the last time the best player at any position in the NBA didn't at least make the playoffs? How about the second best player at any position? It just doesn't happen. That's not to say I don't have good defensive veterans throughout the team and young athletic fliers to run with Deron.

I understand that some people don't view my team as a contender for a championship but for me to not make the playoffs is ridiculous.

I think your squad 9th or 10th in the West. Just outside the playoffs.

I think your team is a playoff caliber team in normal circumstances but there were a lot of very good teams in the West in this fantasy game and I thought they offered a little bit more than your roster.

The main reason why I did not put your team in the playoffs is Josh Howard. I don't have confidence in him to return from his injury and play at a high level anymore. I still like his defensive ability but I question his ability to be a good go-to scorer (efficiency?) + I don't think he can rebound his position (SF) anymore.

If Josh Howard did come back healthy + was able to regain his form of a few years ago ... I would have Minny in the playoffs.

I don't think he needs to be a go to scorer anymore, he will be the recipient of playing with Deron Williams which will help his scoring.
If you can't be sold on him Stackhouse was a contributing member of a playoff team at the same position. Quis showed that when healthy he can play good ball at the same position (pre all star break). Then I have Gordon Hayward who will be starting for a Jazz playoff team who can come in and fill the position. Also I have Xavier Henry who had great production for Kansas as a freshman last year and should get open shots with Deron running the show.

[StartOrien]

My team is a playoff team, I have the best point guard in the league. When was the last time the best player at any position in the NBA didn't at least make the playoffs? How about the second best player at any position? It just doesn't happen. That's not to say I don't have good defensive veterans throughout the team and young athletic fliers to run with Deron.

I understand that some people don't view my team as a contender for a championship but for me to not make the playoffs is ridiculous.

I think your squad 9th or 10th in the West. Just outside the playoffs.

I think your team is a playoff caliber team in normal circumstances but there were a lot of very good teams in the West in this fantasy game and I thought they offered a little bit more than your roster.

The main reason why I did not put your team in the playoffs is Josh Howard. I don't have confidence in him to return from his injury and play at a high level anymore. I still like his defensive ability but I question his ability to be a good go-to scorer (efficiency?) + I don't think he can rebound his position (SF) anymore.

If Josh Howard did come back healthy + was able to regain his form of a few years ago ... I would have Minny in the playoffs.

I don't think he needs to be a go to scorer anymore, he will be the recipient of playing with Deron Williams which will help his scoring.
If you can't be sold on him Stackhouse was a contributing member of a playoff team at the same position. Quis showed that when healthy he can play good ball at the same position (pre all star break). Then I have Gordon Hayward who will be starting for a Jazz playoff team who can come in and fill the position. Also I have Xavier Henry who had great production for Kansas as a freshman last year and should get open shots with Deron running the show.

Any thoughts on giving Xavier Henry some minutes at the 3? He's awfully undersized, but it's another look for your team.

[Rondo2287]

I agree. I think the Hawks have been easily one of the most under rated teams in this draft. They have what appears to be would be a great team defense and plus defenders at 4 starting positions and from at least one or two players from the bench. Their rebounding is good. They have one of the league's elite superduperstars.

I don't see what's not to like.

No primary wing defender, a small backcourt that is vulnerable on the backboards and defensively, and overall the lack of a scorer other than Durant.

Well, I would consider Durant a primary wing defender

6'4", 6'3" and 6'2" from your stating SG, PG and primary back up PG and I'm not sure being small is that big a deal given who the C's won the championship with at those same positions. Also, since when is being vulnerable on the backboards from your guard positions a huge deal? That's a semi-new one on me.

I also believe Brand off the bench and Okur can score just fine if not better than anyone that New York or Chicago has other than their primary scoring superstars.

Atlanta's GM said himself that during the season Durant would not be used as a primary wing defender, instead he'd used Hinrich and Butler.

If Durant is their primary defender his offense is very likely to suffer. Also I don't think the rotation of Okur and Brand is as good as others.

Basically they're very similar to the Chicago team or the real life Cavs.

But instead of LeBron they have Durant, which is a huge downgrade.

Memo Okur and Elton Brand are two of the worst defensive big men in the league that are playing major rotation minutes.

I also think Redick is vulnerable defensively as a starting SG + I think Hinrich is a good player as a PG but a fairly mediocre SG + that the squad lacks a backup for Durant (Butler plays poorly at SF).

---------------------------------------------------

I like other elements of the squad too but those were the reasons why they fell as far as they did on my ballot. I thought those weaknesses, particularly Brand + Okur, took away a lot of positives about the team.

I disagree Entirely, I think Elton Brand is an above average to  very good defender. Not only is he a good man to man defender but he is also a good help defender and blocks a good amount of shots.

Brand was a solid defender when he was younger before the injuries ... but now his legs are gone ... he can't move anymore ... and he is one of the biggest defensive liabilities in the league.

Disagree, I think he is still a very good defender, his lateral quickness is still there.  I think he is still a very effective defender. 

[indeedproceed]

I agree. I think the Hawks have been easily one of the most under rated teams in this draft. They have what appears to be would be a great team defense and plus defenders at 4 starting positions and from at least one or two players from the bench. Their rebounding is good. They have one of the league's elite superduperstars.

I don't see what's not to like.

No primary wing defender, a small backcourt that is vulnerable on the backboards and defensively, and overall the lack of a scorer other than Durant.

Well, I would consider Durant a primary wing defender

6'4", 6'3" and 6'2" from your stating SG, PG and primary back up PG and I'm not sure being small is that big a deal given who the C's won the championship with at those same positions. Also, since when is being vulnerable on the backboards from your guard positions a huge deal? That's a semi-new one on me.

I also believe Brand off the bench and Okur can score just fine if not better than anyone that New York or Chicago has other than their primary scoring superstars.

Atlanta's GM said himself that during the season Durant would not be used as a primary wing defender, instead he'd used Hinrich and Butler.

If Durant is their primary defender his offense is very likely to suffer. Also I don't think the rotation of Okur and Brand is as good as others.

Basically they're very similar to the Chicago team or the real life Cavs.

But instead of LeBron they have Durant, which is a huge downgrade.

Memo Okur and Elton Brand are two of the worst defensive big men in the league that are playing major rotation minutes.

I also think Redick is vulnerable defensively as a starting SG + I think Hinrich is a good player as a PG but a fairly mediocre SG + that the squad lacks a backup for Durant (Butler plays poorly at SF).

---------------------------------------------------

I like other elements of the squad too but those were the reasons why they fell as far as they did on my ballot. I thought those weaknesses, particularly Brand + Okur, took away a lot of positives about the team.

I disagree Entirely, I think Elton Brand is an above average to  very good defender. Not only is he a good man to man defender but he is also a good help defender and blocks a good amount of shots.

Brand was a solid defender when he was younger before the injuries ... but now his legs are gone ... he can't move anymore ... and he is one of the biggest defensive liabilities in the league.

Disagree, I think he is still a very good defender, his lateral quickness is still there.  I think he is still a very effective defender. 

I disagree with your disagree. I think Elton Brand can still be a productive player, and his role in this game (coming off the bench) is an excellent one, but that is not to say he's a 'very good' defender.