Official Discuss your CB Draft team

[action781]

Very little defense?

Hinrich and Butler are good wing defenders, Durant is no matador, Varejao is one of the best big man defenders in the league.  Also don't count out Okur according to these statistics.

Please note: that the GM of the New Orleans Buccaneers actually fully expects Lou Amundson to sign in the NBA.

On an unrelated note:



Points allowed per possession in the post (courtesy of Synergy Sports).

Let me know if there's interest in players 21 through 40-ish.

Also Durant will be playing 75-80% of the time.  When he's out the team oriented offense will generate open looks with so many shooters on this team.

I think a lot of people are underrating the Hawks.  Durant is a superstar (have you seen him in the Worlds?) and he's surrounded with good chemistry players who complement the team game in a very balanced manner.

This seems like a nice statistic until you realize Ilguaskas is ranked #2.  Are you honestly still confident that this statistic tells you something meaningful? 

I think I know what it does tell you.  Who guarded the #1 post player for Utah?  Boozer.  Who guarded the #2 post player?  Okur.

But at least it does tell you that Okur's man is never dominating him in the post.  He's scoring some other way as told by the 19.3 pp48 that PF's score against him and 16.4 pp48 that C's score against him.  It is not his post defense, but his offense that makes him valuable and still a net plus on the court.  But, it is also true that 71% of Okur's baskets last season were assisted.  Who is his Deron Williams in Atlanta to set him up for all those points?

All stats found: http://www.82games.com/0910/09UTA13.HTM

[Evantime34]

My team is a playoff team, I have the best point guard in the league. When was the last time the best player at any position in the NBA didn't at least make the playoffs? How about the second best player at any position? It just doesn't happen. That's not to say I don't have good defensive veterans throughout the team and young athletic fliers to run with Deron.

I understand that some people don't view my team as a contender for a championship but for me to not make the playoffs is ridiculous.

Evantime, I think you're better off explaining why your team would excel over some of the others. Your last couple posts have presented little outside of displaying that you're quite upset with some of the rankings.

Fair enough.
I will do that.

[Fafnir]

My team is a playoff team, I have the best point guard in the league. When was the last time the best player at any position in the NBA didn't at least make the playoffs? How about the second best player at any position? It just doesn't happen. That's not to say I don't have good defensive veterans throughout the team and young athletic fliers to run with Deron.

I understand that some people don't view my team as a contender for a championship but for me to not make the playoffs is ridiculous.

Kobe Bryant at the 2 guard position the year he was in the lottery. KG the year after his MVP was arguably the best PF in the league and missed the playoffs.

Those are the two recent examples I can think of. Its not common certainly.

[Fafnir]

My question for Atlanta is when you play Indiana, Chicago, and NY, when the jump ball goes up, who guards Kobe, Wade, and Lebron?

If it's JJ or Hinrich, Kobe is going off 12-14 in the first quarter and likely 35+ for the game.  If it's Durant playing D, I'm telling you, he will get awfully tired and it will affect his ability to then be the entire offense on the other end of the floor.

To the poster who asked why Lebron can do it and Durant cannot:  From what IP said, Tony Allen, who is lockdown, will guard the primary wing for 20 minutes per game or so.  Lebron will probably guard it for the other 20-24 minutes.  So that's not all game.  And Lebron does steroids, so he doesn't lose any energy playing defense.     OK, on a serious note, they still have Brandon Jennings who can create some offense so Lebron doesn't have to shoulder the entire offensive load like Durant will on his team.

Look super stars are going to get their points that's why they're superstars.  You act like everyone has a team that will completely shut down these players. 

As we've seen in the playoffs Durant did a pretty good job when he guarded Kobe.  Are you going to have Kobe guarding all the other superstars?  He's not in his 20's anymore he doesn't have the legs like Durant/Wade/LeBron to chase around other premier players and still have enough left on the other end of the court.

I think both Kobe and Durant are going to have to carry too much of a load for both their teams.

Both would make the playoffs however.

[Fafnir]

Very little defense?

Hinrich and Butler are good wing defenders, Durant is no matador, Varejao is one of the best big man defenders in the league.  Also don't count out Okur according to these statistics.

Please note: that the GM of the New Orleans Buccaneers actually fully expects Lou Amundson to sign in the NBA.

On an unrelated note:



Points allowed per possession in the post (courtesy of Synergy Sports).

Let me know if there's interest in players 21 through 40-ish.

Also Durant will be playing 75-80% of the time.  When he's out the team oriented offense will generate open looks with so many shooters on this team.

I think a lot of people are underrating the Hawks.  Durant is a superstar (have you seen him in the Worlds?) and he's surrounded with good chemistry players who complement the team game in a very balanced manner.

This seems like a nice statistic until you realize Ilguaskas is ranked #2.  Are you honestly still confident that this statistic tells you something meaningful? 

I think I know what it does tell you.  Who guarded the #1 post player for Utah?  Boozer.  Who guarded the #2 post player?  Okur.

But at least it does tell you that Okur's man is never dominating him in the post.  He's scoring some other way as told by the 19.3 pp48 that PF's score against him and 16.4 pp48 that C's score against him.  It is not his post defense, but his offense that makes him valuable and still a net plus on the court.  But, it is also true that 71% of Okur's baskets last season were assisted.  Who is his Deron Williams in Atlanta to set him up for all those points?

All stats found: http://www.82games.com/0910/09UTA13.HTM

I think its plenty meaningful for post defense and I'll also say that Boozer did not always guard the number one post option for the Jazz.

[Kwhit10]

Very little defense?

Hinrich and Butler are good wing defenders, Durant is no matador, Varejao is one of the best big man defenders in the league.  Also don't count out Okur according to these statistics.

Please note: that the GM of the New Orleans Buccaneers actually fully expects Lou Amundson to sign in the NBA.

On an unrelated note:



Points allowed per possession in the post (courtesy of Synergy Sports).

Let me know if there's interest in players 21 through 40-ish.

Also Durant will be playing 75-80% of the time.  When he's out the team oriented offense will generate open looks with so many shooters on this team.

I think a lot of people are underrating the Hawks.  Durant is a superstar (have you seen him in the Worlds?) and he's surrounded with good chemistry players who complement the team game in a very balanced manner.

This seems like a nice statistic until you realize Ilguaskas is ranked #2.  Are you honestly still confident that this statistic tells you something meaningful?  

I think I know what it does tell you.  Who guarded the #1 post player for Utah?  Boozer.  Who guarded the #2 post player?  Okur.

But at least it does tell you that Okur's man is never dominating him in the post.  He's scoring some other way as told by the 19.3 pp48 that PF's score against him and 16.4 pp48 that C's score against him.  It is not his post defense, but his offense that makes him valuable and still a net plus on the court.  But, it is also true that 71% of Okur's baskets last season were assisted.  Who is his Deron Williams in Atlanta to set him up for all those points?

All stats found: http://www.82games.com/0910/09UTA13.HTM

Ok from that site:

Okur had a 4% better eFG than his C opponents and scored 6 more points per game.  Everything else is almost the same.

Look at other players on the Jazz that season... Boozer was assisted 74% of the time. Kirilenko 76%.  Korver 93%, Milsap 72%, Wesley Mathews 76% of the time.

Okur's shots made after assist was lower than everyone else on the team (except Deron of course).  It's not like my team is being run with out any point guards.  This team has so many shooters that ball movement will be getting people open.

[action781]

My question for Atlanta is when you play Indiana, Chicago, and NY, when the jump ball goes up, who guards Kobe, Wade, and Lebron?

If it's JJ or Hinrich, Kobe is going off 12-14 in the first quarter and likely 35+ for the game.  If it's Durant playing D, I'm telling you, he will get awfully tired and it will affect his ability to then be the entire offense on the other end of the floor.

To the poster who asked why Lebron can do it and Durant cannot:  From what IP said, Tony Allen, who is lockdown, will guard the primary wing for 20 minutes per game or so.  Lebron will probably guard it for the other 20-24 minutes.  So that's not all game.  And Lebron does steroids, so he doesn't lose any energy playing defense.     OK, on a serious note, they still have Brandon Jennings who can create some offense so Lebron doesn't have to shoulder the entire offensive load like Durant will on his team.

Look super stars are going to get their points that's why they're superstars.  You act like everyone has a team that will completely shut down these players. 

As we've seen in the playoffs Durant did a pretty good job when he guarded Kobe.  Are you going to have Kobe guarding all the other superstars?  He's not in his 20's anymore he doesn't have the legs like Durant/Wade/LeBron to chase around other premier players and still have enough left on the other end of the court.

No, I'm definitely not.  Mickael Pietrus will be guarding them.  Between him and Kobe, I actually do think my team might be able to shut down superstar wings on many nights.  I also think that Chicago can between Tony Allen and Lebron.  They are a couple of the few teams in the East, I'm not entirely familiar with the West off the top of my head.

No, I don't think every team will be able to "shut down" those players.  But I also don't think other teams have defenders who will be exploited like JJ Redick would be like.  You say "get their points".  Against JJ Redick, I'm not talking about Kobe "getting his 27-30 ppg".  Yes, that will happen against most teams.  I'm talking about him going off for 35-40 or more on some nights.

I see a great solution to that being, "OK, Durant will guard them then."  But then I see the immediate problem being, "wait, we need him literally every single possession on offense."  I completely agree with you that Durant can guard them.  The question that I feel people are ignoring is whether or not the offense can still function if he does.  And if he doesn't, can Durant + Atlanta still manage to outscore the other superstars?

[action781]

Very little defense?

Hinrich and Butler are good wing defenders, Durant is no matador, Varejao is one of the best big man defenders in the league.  Also don't count out Okur according to these statistics.

Please note: that the GM of the New Orleans Buccaneers actually fully expects Lou Amundson to sign in the NBA.

On an unrelated note:



Points allowed per possession in the post (courtesy of Synergy Sports).

Let me know if there's interest in players 21 through 40-ish.

Also Durant will be playing 75-80% of the time.  When he's out the team oriented offense will generate open looks with so many shooters on this team.

I think a lot of people are underrating the Hawks.  Durant is a superstar (have you seen him in the Worlds?) and he's surrounded with good chemistry players who complement the team game in a very balanced manner.

This seems like a nice statistic until you realize Ilguaskas is ranked #2.  Are you honestly still confident that this statistic tells you something meaningful?  

I think I know what it does tell you.  Who guarded the #1 post player for Utah?  Boozer.  Who guarded the #2 post player?  Okur.

But at least it does tell you that Okur's man is never dominating him in the post.  He's scoring some other way as told by the 19.3 pp48 that PF's score against him and 16.4 pp48 that C's score against him.  It is not his post defense, but his offense that makes him valuable and still a net plus on the court.  But, it is also true that 71% of Okur's baskets last season were assisted.  Who is his Deron Williams in Atlanta to set him up for all those points?

All stats found: http://www.82games.com/0910/09UTA13.HTM

Ok from that site:

Okur had a 4% better eFG than his C opponents and scored 6 more points per game.  Everything else is almost the same.

Look at other players on the Jazz that season... Boozer was assisted 74% of the time. Kirilenko 76%.  Korver 93%, Milsap 72%, Wesley Mathews 76% of the time.

Okur's shots made after assist was lower than everyone else on the team (except Deron of course).  It's not like my team is being run with out any point guards.  This team has so many shooters that ball movement will be getting people open.

Well, those other %'s definitely put things in some perspective for me.  I'd expect that from Milsap and especially Korver, but not Boozer so much.

And I do realize that he had a 4% higher eFG than his counter opponents on the court.  Like I said, Okur is a net asset on the court.  I actually like him as a player on the right team.  I don't think he's the 4th best defensive post player in the league was my point haha.  I think that stat is flawed somehow if Ilguaskas is ranked #2. 

[Fafnir]

Big Z also had half the dat points and is only #2 by a very small margin. His being #2 on the chart does not invalidate the statistic, especially when he is a quality post defender.

[Kwhit10]

My question for Atlanta is when you play Indiana, Chicago, and NY, when the jump ball goes up, who guards Kobe, Wade, and Lebron?

If it's JJ or Hinrich, Kobe is going off 12-14 in the first quarter and likely 35+ for the game.  If it's Durant playing D, I'm telling you, he will get awfully tired and it will affect his ability to then be the entire offense on the other end of the floor.

To the poster who asked why Lebron can do it and Durant cannot:  From what IP said, Tony Allen, who is lockdown, will guard the primary wing for 20 minutes per game or so.  Lebron will probably guard it for the other 20-24 minutes.  So that's not all game.  And Lebron does steroids, so he doesn't lose any energy playing defense.     OK, on a serious note, they still have Brandon Jennings who can create some offense so Lebron doesn't have to shoulder the entire offensive load like Durant will on his team.

Look super stars are going to get their points that's why they're superstars.  You act like everyone has a team that will completely shut down these players. 

As we've seen in the playoffs Durant did a pretty good job when he guarded Kobe.  Are you going to have Kobe guarding all the other superstars?  He's not in his 20's anymore he doesn't have the legs like Durant/Wade/LeBron to chase around other premier players and still have enough left on the other end of the court.

No, I'm definitely not.  Mickael Pietrus will be guarding them.  Between him and Kobe, I actually do think my team might be able to shut down superstar wings on many nights.  I also think that Chicago can between Tony Allen and Lebron.  They are a couple of the few teams in the East, I'm not entirely familiar with the West off the top of my head.

No, I don't think every team will be able to "shut down" those players.  But I also don't think other teams have defenders who will be exploited like JJ Redick would be like.  You say "get their points".  Against JJ Redick, I'm not talking about Kobe "getting his 27-30 ppg".  Yes, that will happen against most teams.  I'm talking about him going off for 35-40 or more on some nights.

I see a great solution to that being, "OK, Durant will guard them then."  But then I see the immediate problem being, "wait, we need him literally every single possession on offense."  I completely agree with you that Durant can guard them.  The question that I feel people are ignoring is whether or not the offense can still function if he does.  And if he doesn't, can Durant + Atlanta still manage to outscore the other superstars?

JJ redick's Drtg is 107 (107 pts allowed per posession) while Kobes Drtg is 104 (same as Durants)

Also where else on your team is any offense going to come from?

[action781]

JJ redick's Drtg is 107 (107 pts allowed per posession) while Kobes Drtg is 104 (same as Durants)

Also where else on your team is any offense going to come from?

JJ also came off the bench so allowed that vs. bench players often.  From my memory, he also guarded opponents VERY tightly which he could afford to do with Howard behind him.  Can he still with Varejao and Okur behind him?  Yeah, but to a lesser extent.  And are those meant to be per 100 possessions?

And a lot of my team's offense is going to be run through Marc Gasol for good chunks of the game.  Unless there is a weak wing defender guarding Kobe to exploit.

I gotta go to work!  Not ducking out but I'll try to check in later, great chatting!  TP for good sound defense, kwhit.

[nickagneta]

When was the last time the best player at any position in the NBA didn't at least make the playoffs? How about the second best player at any position? It just doesn't happen.

2005 and 2006 - Kevin Garnett
2004 and 2006 - Allen Iverson
2006 - Paul Pierce
1998 - Grant Hill
1995 and 1995 and 1997 - Mitch Richmond
1992 - Hakeem Olajuwon

It actually happens more often than one would think.

[Fafnir]

When was the last time the best player at any position in the NBA didn't at least make the playoffs? How about the second best player at any position? It just doesn't happen.

2005 and 2006 - Kevin Garnett
2004 and 2006 - Allen Iverson
2006 - Paul Pierce
1998 - Grant Hill
1995 and 1995 and 1997 - Mitch Richmond
1992 - Hakeem Olajuwon

It actually happens more often than one would think.

Fixed.

Allen Iverson wasn't the best SG (that was Kobe) nor was he the best PG (that was Jason Kidd or Nash depending on taste)

[StartOrien]

Has there ever been a healthy, elite PG who hasn't been able to take his team to the playoffs though?

[Roy H.]

When was the last time the best player at any position in the NBA didn't at least make the playoffs? How about the second best player at any position? It just doesn't happen.

2005 and 2006 - Kevin Garnett
2004 and 2006 - Allen Iverson
2006 - Paul Pierce
1998 - Grant Hill
1995 and 1995 and 1997 - Mitch Richmond
1992 - Hakeem Olajuwon

It actually happens more often than one would think.

Fixed.

Allen Iverson wasn't the best SG (that was Kobe) nor was he the best PG (that was Jason Kidd or Nash depending on taste)

AI was arguably second best, though, right?