2010 CB Draft: Central Division Press Conferences

[indeedproceed]

I suppose it's semantics, but if Ilyasova is "exceptional", that means there are between 100 - 150 "exceptional" players in the NBA, minimum.  That just seems high, unless you're talking about the realm of all basketball players, rather than just ones that play in the NBA.

Ilyasova is "pretty good".  Dywane Wade is "exceptional".

When I used the word exceptional originally, it was as a rebuff to Nick using it. We just kind of carried it on.

'Course, I'll take almost any excuse to pimp out Ilyasova. The kid just looks like a player, and people need to rekkkked-nize, son.

Gotcha.  In that case, last year's CrotoNats cast off Hamed Haddadi is, indeed, exceptional.  Sadly, our roster was so stacked that not even this exceptional player could fit in our top 15.

against denver last year haddadi got 18 minutes. He managed 11points, 8 rebounds.

Don't mock the crazy iranian.

[Roy H.]

I suppose it's semantics, but if Ilyasova is "exceptional", that means there are between 100 - 150 "exceptional" players in the NBA, minimum.  That just seems high, unless you're talking about the realm of all basketball players, rather than just ones that play in the NBA.

Ilyasova is "pretty good".  Dywane Wade is "exceptional".

When I used the word exceptional originally, it was as a rebuff to Nick using it. We just kind of carried it on.

'Course, I'll take almost any excuse to pimp out Ilyasova. The kid just looks like a player, and people need to rekkkked-nize, son.

Gotcha.  In that case, last year's CrotoNats cast off Hamed Haddadi is, indeed, exceptional.  Sadly, our roster was so stacked that not even this exceptional player could fit in our top 15.

against denver last year haddadi got 18 minutes. He managed 11points, 8 rebounds.

Don't mock the crazy iranian.

I actually kind of like his potential to be a pretty good backup center.  Maybe I'm way off with that, but I think he'd be okay, so long as you weren't relying upon him for 30 minutes.

[indeedproceed]

I suppose it's semantics, but if Ilyasova is "exceptional", that means there are between 100 - 150 "exceptional" players in the NBA, minimum.  That just seems high, unless you're talking about the realm of all basketball players, rather than just ones that play in the NBA.

Ilyasova is "pretty good".  Dywane Wade is "exceptional".

When I used the word exceptional originally, it was as a rebuff to Nick using it. We just kind of carried it on.

'Course, I'll take almost any excuse to pimp out Ilyasova. The kid just looks like a player, and people need to rekkkked-nize, son.

Gotcha.  In that case, last year's CrotoNats cast off Hamed Haddadi is, indeed, exceptional.  Sadly, our roster was so stacked that not even this exceptional player could fit in our top 15.

against denver last year haddadi got 18 minutes. He managed 11points, 8 rebounds.

Don't mock the crazy iranian.

I actually kind of like his potential to be a pretty good backup center.  Maybe I'm way off with that, but I think he'd be okay, so long as you weren't relying upon him for 30 minutes.

I think the same.

[nickagneta]

1) Ersan Ilyasova is an exceptional player.

Define "exceptional".

6'10, 23 years old, 11 pts, 7 rebounds and 35% shooting while playing good team defense for 26 minutes when he was playing as a starter is exceptional. Exceptional as in better than the average NBA power forward.   

Is Glen Big Baby Davis an exceptional player?

When he started for an injured KG in the playoffs, when competition is at it's zenith, he averaged 15.8 PPG and 5.6 RPG while shooting 49%. Does that make him an exceptional player and better than the average NBA PF? because even though I am a Celtic and Big Baby fan, I don't consider him exceptional or better than an average NBA PF.

Those numbers are worse than what Ilyasova put up though, signifigantly so.

Wait...

31 MPG, 15.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 49% FG%, 53.8% TS%

26 MPG 11 PPG, 7 RPG, 42% FG%, 50.7 TS%

Do you want to explain to me how Ilyasova's numbers while starting in the regular season and going against regular season competition is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Baby's numbers while Baby was playing against playoff level competition?

[indeedproceed]

1) Ersan Ilyasova is an exceptional player.

Define "exceptional".

6'10, 23 years old, 11 pts, 7 rebounds and 35% shooting while playing good team defense for 26 minutes when he was playing as a starter is exceptional. Exceptional as in better than the average NBA power forward.   

Is Glen Big Baby Davis an exceptional player?

When he started for an injured KG in the playoffs, when competition is at it's zenith, he averaged 15.8 PPG and 5.6 RPG while shooting 49%. Does that make him an exceptional player and better than the average NBA PF? because even though I am a Celtic and Big Baby fan, I don't consider him exceptional or better than an average NBA PF.

Those numbers are worse than what Ilyasova put up though, signifigantly so.

Wait...

31 MPG, 15.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 49% FG%, 53.8% TS%

26 MPG 11 PPG, 7 RPG, 42% FG%, 50.7 TS%

Do you want to explain to me how Ilyasova's numbers while starting in the regular season and going against regular season competition is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Baby's numbers while Baby was playing against playoff level competition?

I can explain that. Its because your statistics are wrong, and Glen Davis never did that.

I had his stats correct, but to rehash, 36.4 minutes, 15.8pts, 5.6 boards, and 1.8 assists. At Ilyasova's current numbers, he's getting 16 points, 10 boards and an assist and a steal over the exact same time.

Now, the fact that Glen Davis did that, *IS* exceptional. Considering he was a 2nd year player he handled that as well as he could.

Which is also the point. He shot 50% in that Orlando series, and he didn't average 50% over a single month during the regular season. What Baby did during the 09 playoffs was exceptional, even if it doesn't speak for his play on a whole.

[Fafnir]

1) Ersan Ilyasova is an exceptional player.

Define "exceptional".

6'10, 23 years old, 11 pts, 7 rebounds and 35% shooting while playing good team defense for 26 minutes when he was playing as a starter is exceptional. Exceptional as in better than the average NBA power forward.   

Is Glen Big Baby Davis an exceptional player?

When he started for an injured KG in the playoffs, when competition is at it's zenith, he averaged 15.8 PPG and 5.6 RPG while shooting 49%. Does that make him an exceptional player and better than the average NBA PF? because even though I am a Celtic and Big Baby fan, I don't consider him exceptional or better than an average NBA PF.

Those numbers are worse than what Ilyasova put up though, signifigantly so.

Wait...

31 MPG, 15.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 49% FG%, 53.8% TS%

26 MPG 11 PPG, 7 RPG, 42% FG%, 50.7 TS%

Do you want to explain to me how Ilyasova's numbers while starting in the regular season and going against regular season competition is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Baby's numbers while Baby was playing against playoff level competition?

Yes it is because 5.6 rebounds is extremely poor in those minutes.

[nickagneta]

1) Ersan Ilyasova is an exceptional player.

Define "exceptional".

6'10, 23 years old, 11 pts, 7 rebounds and 35% shooting while playing good team defense for 26 minutes when he was playing as a starter is exceptional. Exceptional as in better than the average NBA power forward.   

Is Glen Big Baby Davis an exceptional player?

When he started for an injured KG in the playoffs, when competition is at it's zenith, he averaged 15.8 PPG and 5.6 RPG while shooting 49%. Does that make him an exceptional player and better than the average NBA PF? because even though I am a Celtic and Big Baby fan, I don't consider him exceptional or better than an average NBA PF.

Those numbers are worse than what Ilyasova put up though, signifigantly so.

Wait...

31 MPG, 15.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 49% FG%, 53.8% TS%

26 MPG 11 PPG, 7 RPG, 42% FG%, 50.7 TS%

Do you want to explain to me how Ilyasova's numbers while starting in the regular season and going against regular season competition is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Baby's numbers while Baby was playing against playoff level competition?

I can explain that. Its because your statistics are wrong, and Glen Davis never did that.

I had his stats correct, but to rehash, 36.4 minutes, 15.8pts, 5.6 boards, and 1.8 assists. At Ilyasova's current numbers, he's getting 16 points, 10 boards and an assist and a steal over the exact same time.

Now, the fact that Glen Davis did that, *IS* exceptional. Considering he was a 2nd year player he handled that as well as he could.

Which is also the point. He shot 50% in that Orlando series, and he didn't average 50% over a single month during the regular season. What Baby did during the 09 playoffs was exceptional, even if it doesn't speak for his play on a whole.

Excuse me we seem to both be wrong.

I ended up using his minutes per game from the Orlando series by mistake. You are correct. He averaged 36.4 MPG for the playoffs.

But he actually started 14 games in the playoffs that year and except for a slight dip in his MPG and PPG, his numbers as a starter for 16 regular season games are not that much different.

Also, you just can not transpose numbers at one minutes level and say if Ilysova had played that many minutes he would have done such and such...it does not work that way. Players play the minutes they do because they can.

If you want to do an in depth study of Davis' numbers as a starter in 2009-09 and Ilyasova's numbers as a starter in 2009-20 and put them into per 36 or per 40 numbers to compare, fine. But that does not mean that given those numbers Ilyasova would have produced at that numbers.

I stand by my numbers

36 MPG, 15.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 49% FG%, 53.8% TS%

26 MPG 11 PPG, 7 RPG, 42% FG%, 50.7 TS%

Please, show me where Ilyasova's numbers are SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER. I don't see it. Similar...yeah that I see. Significantly better. No way. And if Baby isn't exceptional as a player, neither is Ilyasova. They are pretty even in my book from what I have seen of them play.

[Fafnir]

Okay nick ignore the fact that player production is very consistent on a per minute business. I'll still take Ilyasova's numbers in those minutes.

He's using less time to produce points at an equivalent rate (at comparable efficiency) and secure two more rebounds.

[indeedproceed]

So I got to thinking about this. These are the games from Feb on where Ilyasova player 30 minutes or more. I had to transcribe them by hand, because I can't figure out how to "paste special" with my Macbook.

I understand that this isn't a real representation of how he would play over 30 mins in the course of a season. Whatever led Skiles to leave Ilyasova in (injuries in a few cases, matchups I'm sure led to a few, maybe a few 'Illy' as he will now be called was just 'feeling it' and Skiles rode him out. Point is, that's over 11 games, and I think that's enough to make an argument.

5/2 V ATL, 31 mins, 13 pts, 11 rbs, 1 asst, 1 stl
4/3 V PHO, 31 mins, 12 pts, 7 rebounds, 1 assist.
4/6 V CHI, 32 mins, 17 pts, 7 rebounds, 1 block
4/7 V NJN, 30 mins, 15 pts, 9 boards, 2 assists
3/28 V MEM 32 mins, 8 pts, 6 boards, 2 stls, 2 blks
3/20 V DEN 32 mins, 14 pts, 10 boards, 2 assists, 2 blks
3/19 V SAC 35 mins, 12 pts, 11 boards, 2 assists
3/3 V WAS 33 mins, 19 pts, 10 boards, 6 assists, 1 stl, 1 block
2/28 V ATL 31 9 pts, 8 boards, 1 asts, 1 stl
2/19 V DET 33 mins, 16pts, 12 bords, 3 assists, 3 stls
2/5 V NYK 30 mins, 25 pts, 9 boards,

He had some bad games in there, 2/28 v atlanta, 3/28 v memphis, it happens.

But if I can play Illy for minutes like that (31-34 per game), and he gets stats like that, coupled with the defense we already know he plays, I think that's a good argument for being an above average starter.

[nickagneta]

Okay nick ignore the fact that player production is very consistent on a per minute business. I'll still take Ilyasova's numbers in those minutes.

He's using less time to produce points at an equivalent rate (at comparable efficiency) and secure two more rebounds.

I'm ignoring nothing. Similar points at comparable efficiency and two more rebounds is significant difference??

Significant!!!

Come on Faf. Slightly better. A bit better. I can see. Significant? All the while Baby was playing playoff competition while Ilyasova, at least according to the team's IP just listed, got to put up some of his numbers versus the likes of New Jersey, Memphis, Sacramento, Washington, New York and Detroit.

Tell you what. You take Ilyasova's inflated stats versus horrible teams. I'll take the stats of Baby versus playoff competition.

Actually how did Ilyasova do in the playoffs. About the same as he did in the regular season. Hmm....Baby always seems to elevate his game in the playoffs

But Ilyasova is an exceptional player with significantly better starting stats than Baby and Baby is what...just a bench guy.

[Who]

Actually how did Ilyasova do in the playoffs. About the same as he did in the regular season.

22.6mpg = 9.7ppg + 7.6rpg on 48% FG% + 35.7% 3FG% + 83% FT%

[Fafnir]

Okay nick ignore the fact that player production is very consistent on a per minute business. I'll still take Ilyasova's numbers in those minutes.

He's using less time to produce points at an equivalent rate (at comparable efficiency) and secure two more rebounds.

I'm ignoring nothing. Similar points at comparable efficiency and two more rebounds is significant difference??

Significant!!!

Come on Faf. Slightly better. A bit better. I can see. Significant? All the while Baby was playing playoff competition while Ilyasova, at least according to the team's IP just listed, got to put up some of his numbers versus the likes of New Jersey, Memphis, Sacramento, Washington, New York and Detroit.

Tell you what. You take Ilyasova's inflated stats versus horrible teams. I'll take the stats of Baby versus playoff competition.

Actually how did Ilyasova do in the playoffs. About the same as he did in the regular season. Hmm....Baby always seems to elevate his game in the playoffs

But Ilyasova is an exceptional player with significantly better starting stats than Baby and Baby is what...just a bench guy.

You don't think two more rebounds in less minutes is significant?

If KG rebounds like Ilyasova instead of BBD in the Finals we're champions Nick.

Each rebound is a possession, you know how important that is.

[Donoghus]

Actually how did Ilyasova do in the playoffs. About the same as he did in the regular season.

22.6mpg = 9.7ppg + 7.6rpg on 48% FG% + 35.7% 3FG% + 83% FT%

I'd say that's pretty productive.

[Fafnir]

Actually how did Ilyasova do in the playoffs. About the same as he did in the regular season.

22.6mpg = 9.7ppg + 7.6rpg on 48% FG% + 35.7% 3FG% + 83% FT%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ilyaser01.html

That's a winscore per 48 of .164.

And a TS% of .587 and a rebound rate of 19.8.

Both a lot better than his regular season numbers.

[indeedproceed]

Okay nick ignore the fact that player production is very consistent on a per minute business. I'll still take Ilyasova's numbers in those minutes.

He's using less time to produce points at an equivalent rate (at comparable efficiency) and secure two more rebounds.

I'm ignoring nothing. Similar points at comparable efficiency and two more rebounds is significant difference??

Significant!!!

Come on Faf. Slightly better. A bit better. I can see. Significant? All the while Baby was playing playoff competition while Ilyasova, at least according to the team's IP just listed, got to put up some of his numbers versus the likes of New Jersey, Memphis, Sacramento, Washington, New York and Detroit.

Tell you what. You take Ilyasova's inflated stats versus horrible teams. I'll take the stats of Baby versus playoff competition.

Actually how did Ilyasova do in the playoffs. About the same as he did in the regular season. Hmm....Baby always seems to elevate his game in the playoffs

But Ilyasova is an exceptional player with significantly better starting stats than Baby and Baby is what...just a bench guy.

Okay, let me say this about big baby. If he here 2-3 inches taller, he'd be a completely different player. he'd be a 100% starter in the NBA. Glen Davis is a heck of a player and he just wasn't blessed with Barkley's athleticism or a shoeless height of 6'9 or better.

And in the playoffs, with the Bucs shortened rotation, Ilyasova got 22 minutes per.

He still managed 9.4 points, 7.6 rebounds, upped his FG% to 48%, and upped his 3pt% to 36%

In the last playoff game against the Hawks he got 31 minutes, and he managed 13 points and 11 boards on a bad shooting day.

You can dismiss everything I've thrown out there, tell me the games against Atlanta (5/2), Phoenix (4/3), Chicago (4/6), and Denver (3/20) were all 'fluke' games and say the games NJ, MEM, SAC, WAS, DET, and NY as all insignificant because they didn't make the playoffs, or just dismiss it because its a small sample size...or I'm guessing sooner or later you'll say 'if he was a legitimate starter, he'd be starting in Milwaukee over Mbah a Moute' (and I don't say that angrily, its just the next logical argument), but none of that is anymore theoretical than what I'm saying.

I think there is a good case for Ilyasova being an average to above average starter next season, especially next to LeBron, you do not, does that about sum it up?