Did anyone else wanna see Rondo get cut?

[Birdbrain]

playing with and against that collection of talent is good for him.  If he wasn't playing there he'd just be playing pickup games with lesser talent.  I'd say it could only help him improve...

But I think at Rondo's age... he is what he is.  I don't see him getting any better.  His stats might go up when the big 3 retire and he takes a bigger role.  But he's 24 now.  He's like the same age as LeBron.

24 year old players don't get any better?  

Rondo will certainly improve.  If he will improve his shooting remains to be seen.

Who knows, really... for every Steve Nash there is a Tracy McGrady who peaked at 23 and went down hill from there.  LeBron hasn't changed much the last few years.  Kobe's been the same player since age 22. Jason Kidd at 22 was about the same as Jason Kidd at 28/29 leading the Nets to back-to-back Finals.

Seems unrealistic to expect a major jump in his game.  He's 24 years old.  24 isn't a kid.  

This is what bugs me when I talk to my Boston homer friend who thinks you absolutely could never trade Rondo for Chris Paul (despite the fact Paul owns Rondo in every statistical category), because "Rondo has sooo much potential and WILL be better than Chris Paul".   He will?  Lol.   Rondo is 24... Chris Paul is 25.  Give me a break.

Your Boston homer friend probably looks at that game from a deeper perspective than IF PG NOT MAKE JUMPER, PG NO GOOD.  I can see from reading most of your posts where that would seem a bit crazy to you.

[LarBrd33]

playing with and against that collection of talent is good for him.  If he wasn't playing there he'd just be playing pickup games with lesser talent.  I'd say it could only help him improve...

But I think at Rondo's age... he is what he is.  I don't see him getting any better.  His stats might go up when the big 3 retire and he takes a bigger role.  But he's 24 now.  He's like the same age as LeBron.

24 year old players don't get any better?  

Rondo will certainly improve.  If he will improve his shooting remains to be seen.

Who knows, really... for every Steve Nash there is a Tracy McGrady who peaked at 23 and went down hill from there.  LeBron hasn't changed much the last few years.  Kobe's been the same player since age 22. Jason Kidd at 22 was about the same as Jason Kidd at 28/29 leading the Nets to back-to-back Finals.

Seems unrealistic to expect a major jump in his game.  He's 24 years old.  24 isn't a kid.  

Kobe has become much more skilled since he was 22. He used to be mostly a slasher but know he has diversified his game in a ton of ways and has become a much better jump shooter.  He has worked to develop a whole post game and has a variety of unique pivot moves you don't see anyone else use.  If you think Kobe has not gotten better since 22... Idk what to say.  He may have started regressing due to miles and injuries but he got much better after he was 22.

LeBron has become back to back MVP for the last couple of years... so yes he has also gotten better.  He used to be completely unable to shoot and was merely okay on defense but now he is a solid jump shooter and is the best defender at his position in the NBA.

Jason Kidd also used to be a much better defender.  He has become a much, much better shooter late in his career as well.

Players who don't get better are usually an exception to the rule.  I guarentee Rondo will get better, he has shown improvement every year in the league... why would he not continue to improve?  I don't possibly understand your thinking.

Oh Sure... Kobe picked up a few tricks along the way, but at 22 he was a superstar averaging 28.5 points, 5.9 rebounds, 5 assists and 1.7 steals on 46% shooting... helping his team win a title...  which is about even with the 27 points, 5.4 rebounds, 5 assists and 1.5 steals on 46% shooting that he averaged last year when he helped his team win a title.  

You're right on LeBron.  Back-to-Back MVPs at age 24 and 25... while his stats have stayed pretty much identical to what he did at age 23 (when he probably should have won the MVP as well)... Ok?

Disagree on Jason Kidd becoming a "much better shooter".  His shooting % at age 23 is about what he averaged during his years on the Nets.  Maybe you're talking about washed-up Jason Kidd who recently saw his shooting improve when he benefited from a different style.

I'm sure Rondo will get a bit better too.  But I'm not counting on him having any major changes.  He probably is what he is (more or less).  Luckily, he's one of the best point guards in the league.

Apparently you just blindly use stats and don't watch the games.

Kobe has become a much better player and has also become one of the most clutch players in NBA history, which he was not back at 22.

Yeah apparently he developed the "clutch" thing between winning the title at age 22 and winning the title at age 23.  Ask the Kings.  

Unfortunately, Rondo is 24.  WE're doomed.  

Anyways.  Sure... Rondo will get a few more moves.  Can't see him making a major leap.   Show me a guy who went from being a star at age 23 to being a superstar at age 24 and I'll be on board with you guys.  Otherwise, we're arguing two different things.  Will he make small improvements?  Of Course! ... and that's why playing on Team USA will be beneficial.   But will he go from being a fringe allstar to being a superstar like Chris Paul sometime in his mid 20s?  Nah...

[LarBrd33]

playing with and against that collection of talent is good for him.  If he wasn't playing there he'd just be playing pickup games with lesser talent.  I'd say it could only help him improve...

But I think at Rondo's age... he is what he is.  I don't see him getting any better.  His stats might go up when the big 3 retire and he takes a bigger role.  But he's 24 now.  He's like the same age as LeBron.

24 year old players don't get any better?  

Rondo will certainly improve.  If he will improve his shooting remains to be seen.

Who knows, really... for every Steve Nash there is a Tracy McGrady who peaked at 23 and went down hill from there.  LeBron hasn't changed much the last few years.  Kobe's been the same player since age 22. Jason Kidd at 22 was about the same as Jason Kidd at 28/29 leading the Nets to back-to-back Finals.

Seems unrealistic to expect a major jump in his game.  He's 24 years old.  24 isn't a kid.  

This is what bugs me when I talk to my Boston homer friend who thinks you absolutely could never trade Rondo for Chris Paul (despite the fact Paul owns Rondo in every statistical category), because "Rondo has sooo much potential and WILL be better than Chris Paul".   He will?  Lol.   Rondo is 24... Chris Paul is 25.  Give me a break.

Your Boston homer friend probably looks at that game from a deeper perspective than IF PG NOT MAKE JUMPER, PG NO GOOD.  I can see from reading most of your posts where that would seem a bit crazy to you.

I was going to take offense to this personal attack, but then I noticed you had Kevin Pittsnoogle as your avatar and I let it slide.

[Birdbrain]

Birdbrain, I agree.  At the same time,

I don't understand people who think a jumper can be pulled out of a hat.

All we can hope for is gradual improvement.

If he ends up with an average jumper it will be a welcome miracle.

If he ends up shooting free throws at around 75% it'll be another miracle.

I don't understand when people say there's no excuse for not hitting free throws.

He SUCKS at it.  Get over it!  Hope for gradual improvement?  Of course!  That's it!

btw, all signs point to him being an extremely hard worker and a perfectionist.  I'm sure his jumper and ft shooting bug him more than you.....

so it's dumb to assume he doesn't work at it.   You think Rondo likes his ft %?  You think he wants to stand pat where he is?  That would go against everything I've ever learned or experienced about athletes, athletics and competition in general.....

Me neither and I pretty much agree with everything you posted.  You can throw Rondo's jumper in the same heap with BBDs weight and his propensity for getting blocked.

[Birdbrain]

Also don't act surprised when people take issue with you make a post that basically says you think Rondo's a horrible shooter and that's why he won't make the team (not true in the first place) and guess what it's a good thing cause then he can work on his horrible shooting...  You had to know that would elicit some of question responses.

You obviously misinterpreted my post, and i think you're the only one who did. I said we obviously know that Rondo is a top 5 PG. But would getting cut (which would then be revealed to be specifically because of the reason that he's a poor shooter, which is a fact that can't be debated) further motivate him to improve this aspect of his game more and thus, improve his output? understand now?

Other people got upset because my post implied that he didn't have work ethic, and i can understand that. You got upset because you believe i'm saying that Rondo just isn't good enough for Team USA because of his shooting, which i didn't say nor imply. there's a big difference.

He's going to make the team (if there are still gonna be some cuts). Coz duh, he's one of the best PG's in the league. I'm presenting a what-if scenario.



- LilRip

No your post wasn't that hard to understand and trust me it wasn't a very surprising one either.

[Birdbrain]

googles rondo hands 

found a site says he arms are 6'9" and his hands are about the same size of Yao

lol not surprising.

[wiley]

playing with and against that collection of talent is good for him.  If he wasn't playing there he'd just be playing pickup games with lesser talent.  I'd say it could only help him improve...

But I think at Rondo's age... he is what he is.  I don't see him getting any better.  His stats might go up when the big 3 retire and he takes a bigger role.  But he's 24 now.  He's like the same age as LeBron.

24 year old players don't get any better? 

Rondo will certainly improve.  If he will improve his shooting remains to be seen.

Who knows, really... for every Steve Nash there is a Tracy McGrady who peaked at 23 and went down hill from there.  LeBron hasn't changed much the last few years.  Kobe's been the same player since age 22. Jason Kidd at 22 was about the same as Jason Kidd at 28/29 leading the Nets to back-to-back Finals.

Seems unrealistic to expect a major jump in his game.  He's 24 years old.  24 isn't a kid. 

Kobe has become much more skilled since he was 22. He used to be mostly a slasher but know he has diversified his game in a ton of ways and has become a much better jump shooter.  He has worked to develop a whole post game and has a variety of unique pivot moves you don't see anyone else use.  If you think Kobe has not gotten better since 22... Idk what to say.  He may have started regressing due to miles and injuries but he got much better after he was 22.

LeBron has become back to back MVP for the last couple of years... so yes he has also gotten better.  He used to be completely unable to shoot and was merely okay on defense but now he is a solid jump shooter and is the best defender at his position in the NBA.

Jason Kidd also used to be a much better defender.  He has become a much, much better shooter late in his career as well.

Players who don't get better are usually an exception to the rule.  I guarentee Rondo will get better, he has shown improvement every year in the league... why would he not continue to improve?  I don't possibly understand your thinking.

Oh Sure... Kobe picked up a few tricks along the way, but at 22 he was a superstar averaging 28.5 points, 5.9 rebounds, 5 assists and 1.7 steals on 46% shooting... helping his team win a title...  which is about even with the 27 points, 5.4 rebounds, 5 assists and 1.5 steals on 46% shooting that he averaged last year when he helped his team win a title. 

You're right on LeBron.  Back-to-Back MVPs at age 24 and 25... while his stats have stayed pretty much identical to what he did at age 23 (when he probably should have won the MVP as well)... Ok?

Disagree on Jason Kidd becoming a "much better shooter".  His shooting % at age 23 is about what he averaged during his years on the Nets.  Maybe you're talking about washed-up Jason Kidd who recently saw his shooting improve when he benefited from a different style.

I'm sure Rondo will get a bit better too.  But I'm not counting on him having any major changes.  He probably is what he is (more or less).  Luckily, he's one of the best point guards in the league.

I don't doubt he'll see small improvements.   But do I believe at any point in his career he'll do what Chris Paul did at age 23?  23 points, 11 assists, 5.5 rebounds, 2.8 steals 50% shooting and 37% from three?  Highly unlikely.  Rondo is 24.  Can't see him making a leap from star to superstar.

You don't think an offensively unbridled Rondo couldn't put up 20+ points?

Not efficiently.   He's a crap shooter.  He'll stay a crap shooter.

It's hard to lay-up your way to inefficiency.

If the point comes where Rondo is the focal-point of our offense... going at 20+ points a night...  I expect teams to gameplan for him and do a better job keeping him out of the paint.  His shooting will always be an issue.  He'll likely always be a terrible shooter.

I tend to agree regarding his jumper (outside shot).  I think terrible is a bit strong.  Plus he's got a few clutch neurons like DJ.

What I hope is they don't pressure him to increase his volume of shots from outside.  Let the improvement happen over time, don't force it and say, he must hit that one in order for the Celtics to win.  That's a panic statement and it's not true. The year we won it he avoided outside shooting almost entirely.  It can be done if you are a guard like Rondo.  Take a few of them, but spend most of the time being the PG you are already.  Just needs shooters around him.

If you Rondo improves his floater to go with his layup game, you may see unbelievable offensive efficiency numbers, again, if he not forcing shots from further out...

[kozlodoev]

Sometimes I think it will be great if he gets cut. He already played 100+ games last season, he can use the break before the new season starts.

[Snakehead]

playing with and against that collection of talent is good for him.  If he wasn't playing there he'd just be playing pickup games with lesser talent.  I'd say it could only help him improve...

But I think at Rondo's age... he is what he is.  I don't see him getting any better.  His stats might go up when the big 3 retire and he takes a bigger role.  But he's 24 now.  He's like the same age as LeBron.

24 year old players don't get any better?  

Rondo will certainly improve.  If he will improve his shooting remains to be seen.

Who knows, really... for every Steve Nash there is a Tracy McGrady who peaked at 23 and went down hill from there.  LeBron hasn't changed much the last few years.  Kobe's been the same player since age 22. Jason Kidd at 22 was about the same as Jason Kidd at 28/29 leading the Nets to back-to-back Finals.

Seems unrealistic to expect a major jump in his game.  He's 24 years old.  24 isn't a kid.  

Kobe has become much more skilled since he was 22. He used to be mostly a slasher but know he has diversified his game in a ton of ways and has become a much better jump shooter.  He has worked to develop a whole post game and has a variety of unique pivot moves you don't see anyone else use.  If you think Kobe has not gotten better since 22... Idk what to say.  He may have started regressing due to miles and injuries but he got much better after he was 22.

LeBron has become back to back MVP for the last couple of years... so yes he has also gotten better.  He used to be completely unable to shoot and was merely okay on defense but now he is a solid jump shooter and is the best defender at his position in the NBA.

Jason Kidd also used to be a much better defender.  He has become a much, much better shooter late in his career as well.

Players who don't get better are usually an exception to the rule.  I guarentee Rondo will get better, he has shown improvement every year in the league... why would he not continue to improve?  I don't possibly understand your thinking.

Oh Sure... Kobe picked up a few tricks along the way, but at 22 he was a superstar averaging 28.5 points, 5.9 rebounds, 5 assists and 1.7 steals on 46% shooting... helping his team win a title...  which is about even with the 27 points, 5.4 rebounds, 5 assists and 1.5 steals on 46% shooting that he averaged last year when he helped his team win a title.  

You're right on LeBron.  Back-to-Back MVPs at age 24 and 25... while his stats have stayed pretty much identical to what he did at age 23 (when he probably should have won the MVP as well)... Ok?

Disagree on Jason Kidd becoming a "much better shooter".  His shooting % at age 23 is about what he averaged during his years on the Nets.  Maybe you're talking about washed-up Jason Kidd who recently saw his shooting improve when he benefited from a different style.

I'm sure Rondo will get a bit better too.  But I'm not counting on him having any major changes.  He probably is what he is (more or less).  Luckily, he's one of the best point guards in the league.

Apparently you just blindly use stats and don't watch the games.

Kobe has become a much better player and has also become one of the most clutch players in NBA history, which he was not back at 22.

Yeah apparently he developed the "clutch" thing between winning the title at age 22 and winning the title at age 23.  Ask the Kings.  

Unfortunately, Rondo is 24.  WE're doomed.  

Anyways.  Sure... Rondo will get a few more moves.  Can't see him making a major leap.   Show me a guy who went from being a star at age 23 to being a superstar at age 24 and I'll be on board with you guys.  Otherwise, we're arguing two different things.  Will he make small improvements?  Of Course! ... and that's why playing on Team USA will be beneficial.   But will he go from being a fringe allstar to being a superstar like Chris Paul sometime in his mid 20s?  Nah...

So I guess no replies to anything else I said... I was hoping to see what logic you would use.

Anyways, Kobe was always great, was back then when LA won the title, but again Shaq was the man on those teams.  And if anyone cost the Kings against the Lakers it was the refs.  Kobe went off but also he was a big benefeciary of Shaq double teams and the refs had the fix on that deciding game worse than I've ever seen.  Kobe has indeed become much more clutch.  Teams always focus on him at the end of games, but he still hits the shots very frequently, and that's without a Shaq like presence inside.

I'm not saying Rondo is going to become the best PG in the NBA or anything, I just think he'll get better over the course of the next few years.  That is all.  I don't think it's out of the question that he could perhaps become a much better player though.  I never thought that Rondo would be this good even.

[LilRip]

Also don't act surprised when people take issue with you make a post that basically says you think Rondo's a horrible shooter and that's why he won't make the team (not true in the first place) and guess what it's a good thing cause then he can work on his horrible shooting...  You had to know that would elicit some of question responses.

You obviously misinterpreted my post, and i think you're the only one who did. I said we obviously know that Rondo is a top 5 PG. But would getting cut (which would then be revealed to be specifically because of the reason that he's a poor shooter, which is a fact that can't be debated) further motivate him to improve this aspect of his game more and thus, improve his output? understand now?

Other people got upset because my post implied that he didn't have work ethic, and i can understand that. You got upset because you believe i'm saying that Rondo just isn't good enough for Team USA because of his shooting, which i didn't say nor imply. there's a big difference.

He's going to make the team (if there are still gonna be some cuts). Coz duh, he's one of the best PG's in the league. I'm presenting a what-if scenario.



- LilRip

No your post wasn't that hard to understand and trust me it wasn't a very surprising one either.

if it wasn't hard to understand, then i have no idea why you misinterpreted it.



- LilRip

[LilRip]

I'm not saying Rondo is going to become the best PG in the NBA or anything, I just think he'll get better over the course of the next few years.  That is all.  I don't think it's out of the question that he could perhaps become a much better player though.  I never thought that Rondo would be this good even.

yeah, me neither. Although, honestly, i don't see much else that Rondo can improve on other than shooting. finishing maybe? and less gambles on D? though he already does those pretty well, i think. If Rondo developed a FT, i think he'd be similar to J-Kidd in his prime.



- LilRip

[guava_wrench]

googles rondo hands 

found a site says he arms are 6'9" and his hands are about the same size of Yao

That is a great comparison since Yao is a very good FT shooter.

[guava_wrench]

playing with and against that collection of talent is good for him.  If he wasn't playing there he'd just be playing pickup games with lesser talent.  I'd say it could only help him improve...

But I think at Rondo's age... he is what he is.  I don't see him getting any better.  His stats might go up when the big 3 retire and he takes a bigger role.  But he's 24 now.  He's like the same age as LeBron.

24 year old players don't get any better? 

Rondo will certainly improve.  If he will improve his shooting remains to be seen.

Who knows, really... for every Steve Nash there is a Tracy McGrady who peaked at 23 and went down hill from there.  LeBron hasn't changed much the last few years.  Kobe's been the same player since age 22. Jason Kidd at 22 was about the same as Jason Kidd at 28/29 leading the Nets to back-to-back Finals.

Seems unrealistic to expect a major jump in his game.  He's 24 years old.  24 isn't a kid. 

Kobe has become much more skilled since he was 22. He used to be mostly a slasher but know he has diversified his game in a ton of ways and has become a much better jump shooter.  He has worked to develop a whole post game and has a variety of unique pivot moves you don't see anyone else use.  If you think Kobe has not gotten better since 22... Idk what to say.  He may have started regressing due to miles and injuries but he got much better after he was 22.

LeBron has become back to back MVP for the last couple of years... so yes he has also gotten better.  He used to be completely unable to shoot and was merely okay on defense but now he is a solid jump shooter and is the best defender at his position in the NBA.

Jason Kidd also used to be a much better defender.  He has become a much, much better shooter late in his career as well.

Players who don't get better are usually an exception to the rule.  I guarentee Rondo will get better, he has shown improvement every year in the league... why would he not continue to improve?  I don't possibly understand your thinking.

Oh Sure... Kobe picked up a few tricks along the way, but at 22 he was a superstar averaging 28.5 points, 5.9 rebounds, 5 assists and 1.7 steals on 46% shooting... helping his team win a title...  which is about even with the 27 points, 5.4 rebounds, 5 assists and 1.5 steals on 46% shooting that he averaged last year when he helped his team win a title. 

You're right on LeBron.  Back-to-Back MVPs at age 24 and 25... while his stats have stayed pretty much identical to what he did at age 23 (when he probably should have won the MVP as well)... Ok?

Disagree on Jason Kidd becoming a "much better shooter".  His shooting % at age 23 is about what he averaged during his years on the Nets.  Maybe you're talking about washed-up Jason Kidd who recently saw his shooting improve when he benefited from a different style.

I'm sure Rondo will get a bit better too.  But I'm not counting on him having any major changes.  He probably is what he is (more or less).  Luckily, he's one of the best point guards in the league.

I don't doubt he'll see small improvements.   But do I believe at any point in his career he'll do what Chris Paul did at age 23?  23 points, 11 assists, 5.5 rebounds, 2.8 steals 50% shooting and 37% from three?  Highly unlikely.  Rondo is 24.  Can't see him making a leap from star to superstar.

You don't think an offensively unbridled Rondo couldn't put up 20+ points?

Not efficiently.   He's a crap shooter.  He'll stay a crap shooter.

It's hard to lay-up your way to inefficiency.

If the point comes where Rondo is the focal-point of our offense... going at 20+ points a night...  I expect teams to gameplan for him and do a better job keeping him out of the paint.  His shooting will always be an issue.  He'll likely always be a terrible shooter.

I tend to agree regarding his jumper (outside shot).  I think terrible is a bit strong.  Plus he's got a few clutch neurons like DJ.

What I hope is they don't pressure him to increase his volume of shots from outside.  Let the improvement happen over time, don't force it and say, he must hit that one in order for the Celtics to win.  That's a panic statement and it's not true. The year we won it he avoided outside shooting almost entirely.  It can be done if you are a guard like Rondo.  Take a few of them, but spend most of the time being the PG you are already.  Just needs shooters around him.

If you Rondo improves his floater to go with his layup game, you may see unbelievable offensive efficiency numbers, again, if he not forcing shots from further out...

The Kobe comparison is interesting because Kobe was already so good, it was hard to improve.

Rondo is still such a sub par shooter that there is a lot of room to improve. That makes it more likely.

[KCattheStripe]

googles rondo hands 

found a site says he arms are 6'9" and his hands are about the same size of Yao

That is a great comparison since Yao is a very good FT shooter.

Except Rondo's arms and hands are disproportionate to his his body which can mess with balance and release.

[scaryjerry]

Absolutely not.
He deserves it, and can only get better with the experience.