Why Is Glen Davis still on this team?

[LilRip]

Troy Murphy- Murphy has been a starter most of his career and will probably start in Jersey.
Mareese Speights- Baby is better than
Taj Gibson- Baby is better than
JJ Hickson (assuming Jamison starts)- Baby is better than
Jason Maxiell- Baby is better than
Chris Wilcox- Should only be a 4th big on an ok team
Luc Mbah Moute- is more of a 3/4, but if you want to have him, I'd still take Baby's strength and size of over the Prince
Udonis Haslem- Better than Baby
Brandon Bass- I'd take Baby's versatility offensively as well as his motor over Bass anyday.
Al Harrington- Has been a starter a large part of his career. Is also a malcontent and a ball hog. Give me Baby.
Lamar Odom- I would take him over baby.
Louis Amundson- Has had one very good season, but I'm not willing to claim he's better than baby.
Carl Landry- Isn't Landry starting now? If he isn't he's a better bench big.
Shawn Marion- Shawn is a better 3/4. But against 4s I'd say Baby is better at this point.
Chuck Hayes- Baby
DeJuan Blair- Can rebound like a mother, but I don't know if he can do anything else. Give me baby for now.
Antonio McDyess- That's just silly.

So out of your list I have picked 3 maybe 4 who are out and out better than Baby. Also, to the discussion about Baby's blocked shots, I would love to see a stat about how many times Baby had a blocked shot after he pulled an offensive rebound away from two bigger guys. It puts him in a weird double team he can't pass out of and has to force a shot. But honestly, I'm ok with it because it makes the opposing bigs work harder and puts them at risk for a foul. AT that point he's playing with house money.

I disagree with a lot of your comparisons.
-Speights: Overall slightly better now, definitely better in the future
-Gibson: better overall, i'd take davis now if i needed someone to play the 5 off the bench. we don't.
-Hickson: Significantly better now and down the road
-Maxiell: Better. Similar D, Maxiell better on O by a margin.
-Wilcox: I kind of like him for a limited role, but I take Davis for sure.
-Mbah a Moute: Better. More valuable, especially for our team.
-Haslem: Better.
-Bass: Significantly Better, as long as no heavy minutes at the 5.
-Harrington: better overall. Maybe not for this team though, but he probably would be.
-Odom: way better.
-Amundson: Can't say. In a vacuum I take Davis because he's done more and is more proven. But there's a good chance he's better because of superior finishing skill, defense and rebounding. I really would like the scenario of trading Davis for a true bench 3 and signing amundson with the min.
-Landry or Jason Thompson: Better than Davis by a margin
-Marion: Better, but on his way down and going to be more overpaid soon.
-Chuck Hayes: Better than Davis; he's one of the best big man defenders there is. Elite level.
-Blair: as long as his knees are okay, he's better than Davis.
-McDyess: at this point i'll take Davis.

Other Bench guys I'll take (either better than Davis outright or better for our team):
-Diaw or Ty Thomas
-Maybe Amir Johnson
-Craig Smith
-Maybe Hakim Warrick
-Maybe Jordan Hill (particularly down the road
-Matt Bonner
-Serge Ibaka
-Chris Andersen
-Probably Turiaf (defense)
-Josh McRoberts, Dante Cunningham, and Tyler Hansbrough all fall in the category of close to Davis such that I'd take any of the three back in a trade if such a trade also netted a useful bench 3 (i.e. McRoberts/Hansbrough plus Rush or Dahntay Jones from Indiana or Cunningham and Rudy from Portland).




Anyway, what this whole thing of "Why Is Glen Davis still on this team?" boils down to is not that anyone (that I know of) wants Davis off the team for no reason, but rather that he is expendable and perhaps enticing to other teams; the only player (except perhaps Robinson, Perk, or Bradley) who could perhaps make our team better if traded for a certain package. Namely, I think a lot of people here are pointing out that in 10-20 mpg at the 4 spot, we could replace Davis with many other players and not lose much (if anything) while making the team better overall if Davis were moved for a useful 3; any of the players above plus a useful small forward would improve the C's.

thanks Fan from VT for doing that long post. i was going to post something similar. Just some added notes though:

1) Troy Murphy is not going to start because Favors and Brook Lopez are there. And i'd rather have troy murphy. But if Murphy starts, then i'd rather have Favors or Brook Lopez over BBD too.

2) as for McDyess, i agree. BBD is likely better than him. However, that's not to say he can't do well enough for us in that 4th-5th big position in spot minutes which is BBD's role right now. that's why i said "can do equally as good in our system". He can somewhat match BBD's production/effectiveness.

agreed with your last paragraph too. He's replaceable and is not one of the best backup PF's.



- LilRip

[Snakehead]

Troy Murphy- Murphy has been a starter most of his career and will probably start in Jersey.
Mareese Speights- Baby is better than
Taj Gibson- Baby is better than
JJ Hickson (assuming Jamison starts)- Baby is better than
Jason Maxiell- Baby is better than
Chris Wilcox- Should only be a 4th big on an ok team
Luc Mbah Moute- is more of a 3/4, but if you want to have him, I'd still take Baby's strength and size of over the Prince
Udonis Haslem- Better than Baby
Brandon Bass- I'd take Baby's versatility offensively as well as his motor over Bass anyday.
Al Harrington- Has been a starter a large part of his career. Is also a malcontent and a ball hog. Give me Baby.
Lamar Odom- I would take him over baby.
Louis Amundson- Has had one very good season, but I'm not willing to claim he's better than baby.
Carl Landry- Isn't Landry starting now? If he isn't he's a better bench big.
Shawn Marion- Shawn is a better 3/4. But against 4s I'd say Baby is better at this point.
Chuck Hayes- Baby
DeJuan Blair- Can rebound like a mother, but I don't know if he can do anything else. Give me baby for now.
Antonio McDyess- That's just silly.

So out of your list I have picked 3 maybe 4 who are out and out better than Baby. Also, to the discussion about Baby's blocked shots, I would love to see a stat about how many times Baby had a blocked shot after he pulled an offensive rebound away from two bigger guys. It puts him in a weird double team he can't pass out of and has to force a shot. But honestly, I'm ok with it because it makes the opposing bigs work harder and puts them at risk for a foul. AT that point he's playing with house money.

I disagree with a lot of your comparisons.
-Speights: Overall slightly better now, definitely better in the future
-Gibson: better overall, i'd take davis now if i needed someone to play the 5 off the bench. we don't.
-Hickson: Significantly better now and down the road
-Maxiell: Better. Similar D, Maxiell better on O by a margin.
-Wilcox: I kind of like him for a limited role, but I take Davis for sure.
-Mbah a Moute: Better. More valuable, especially for our team.
-Haslem: Better.
-Bass: Significantly Better, as long as no heavy minutes at the 5.
-Harrington: better overall. Maybe not for this team though, but he probably would be.
-Odom: way better.
-Amundson: Can't say. In a vacuum I take Davis because he's done more and is more proven. But there's a good chance he's better because of superior finishing skill, defense and rebounding. I really would like the scenario of trading Davis for a true bench 3 and signing amundson with the min.
-Landry or Jason Thompson: Better than Davis by a margin
-Marion: Better, but on his way down and going to be more overpaid soon.
-Chuck Hayes: Better than Davis; he's one of the best big man defenders there is. Elite level.
-Blair: as long as his knees are okay, he's better than Davis.
-McDyess: at this point i'll take Davis.

Other Bench guys I'll take (either better than Davis outright or better for our team):
-Diaw or Ty Thomas
-Maybe Amir Johnson
-Craig Smith
-Maybe Hakim Warrick
-Maybe Jordan Hill (particularly down the road
-Matt Bonner
-Serge Ibaka
-Chris Andersen
-Probably Turiaf (defense)
-Josh McRoberts, Dante Cunningham, and Tyler Hansbrough all fall in the category of close to Davis such that I'd take any of the three back in a trade if such a trade also netted a useful bench 3 (i.e. McRoberts/Hansbrough plus Rush or Dahntay Jones from Indiana or Cunningham and Rudy from Portland).




Anyway, what this whole thing of "Why Is Glen Davis still on this team?" boils down to is not that anyone (that I know of) wants Davis off the team for no reason, but rather that he is expendable and perhaps enticing to other teams; the only player (except perhaps Robinson, Perk, or Bradley) who could perhaps make our team better if traded for a certain package. Namely, I think a lot of people here are pointing out that in 10-20 mpg at the 4 spot, we could replace Davis with many other players and not lose much (if anything) while making the team better overall if Davis were moved for a useful 3; any of the players above plus a useful small forward would improve the C's.

thanks Fan from VT for doing that long post. i was going to post something similar. Just some added notes though:

1) Troy Murphy is not going to start because Favors and Brook Lopez are there. And i'd rather have troy murphy. But if Murphy starts, then i'd rather have Favors or Brook Lopez over BBD too.

2) as for McDyess, i agree. BBD is likely better than him. However, that's not to say he can't do well enough for us in that 4th-5th big position in spot minutes which is BBD's role right now. that's why i said "can do equally as good in our system". He can somewhat match BBD's production/effectiveness.

agreed with your last paragraph too. He's replaceable and is not one of the best backup PF's.



- LilRip

I really agree with the rebuttals to those initial BBD comments comparing him to other back up bigs... he is not that great.  I'd much rather have Speights or Taj Gibson or JJ Hickson... if that was a trade straight up we'd have a steal, especially in the future as I see BBD not improving too much  where those guys still have a lot of possibly untapped potential and more length or agility, which is BBD's big weakness that leads to him getting blocked often.  I like Baby but I don't overrate him.

Also, Troy Murphy will almost certainly start for New Jersey.  Favors obviously has a ton of potential but he's a project and Avery Johnson has not been high on him as a starter.  I think Troy being traded for was to give them a PF option for a while until Favors could start.  He'll get minutes off the bench  for sure but he will not start.

[Jevi]

Shaq was injured when Glen “Big Baby” Davis came down hard across his arm and hand as Shaq attacked the rim. A foul was not called on the play but Shaq was clearly banged up and grabbed his hand while grimacing. On a subsequent possession before he exited to the locker room, TNT cameras showed Davis trying to grab at Shaq’s damaged hand as O’Neal posted up on Davis in the block.
                                               
Cavaliers television analyst Austin Carr, said Boston's Glen "Big Baby" Davis bent the unwritten rules the same way he tried to twist Shaquille O'Neal's already-injured thumb Thursday night in Boston. "I thought what 'Big Baby' did showed the kind of character, or lack of it, that he has," Carr said.

 Like most viewers of the TNT telecast, he had no problem with the original injury, when Davis' flailing hand cracked Shaq's thumb as O'Neal readied to shoot a layup. Davis was making a play on the ball then.

Shaq tried to stay in the game, and that's when Davis defended the Cavs center as he posted up by grabbing the tender thumb. Apparently, Davis mistook it for a wishbone. "He crossed the line," Carr said.
                                                   By Bill Livingston, The Plain Dealer

                                     
Is this really that bad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKqPw15FRPw

[Jevi]

Now teammates, they'll probably challenge each other to a dance off. Here's Glen Davis,Day-to-Day with Mild Case of Marbury.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr4Z6U3pviM&feature=player_embedded

[Spilling Green Dye]

Shaq was injured when Glen “Big Baby” Davis came down hard across his arm and hand as Shaq attacked the rim. A foul was not called on the play but Shaq was clearly banged up and grabbed his hand while grimacing. On a subsequent possession before he exited to the locker room, TNT cameras showed Davis trying to grab at Shaq’s damaged hand as O’Neal posted up on Davis in the block.
                                               
Cavaliers television analyst Austin Carr, said Boston's Glen "Big Baby" Davis bent the unwritten rules the same way he tried to twist Shaquille O'Neal's already-injured thumb Thursday night in Boston. "I thought what 'Big Baby' did showed the kind of character, or lack of it, that he has," Carr said.

 Like most viewers of the TNT telecast, he had no problem with the original injury, when Davis' flailing hand cracked Shaq's thumb as O'Neal readied to shoot a layup. Davis was making a play on the ball then.

Shaq tried to stay in the game, and that's when Davis defended the Cavs center as he posted up by grabbing the tender thumb. Apparently, Davis mistook it for a wishbone. "He crossed the line," Carr said.
                                                   By Bill Livingston, The Plain Dealer

                                     
Is this really that bad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKqPw15FRPw

I had heard about this but never saw the video until now.  I'd definitely say that was intentional, and definitely crosses the line.

Honestly, if I were Shaq I would have knocked Davis out for that.  It's a cheap move, especially from a bench nobody like Davis (in comparison to Shaq).

[BballTim]

Shaq was injured when Glen “Big Baby” Davis came down hard across his arm and hand as Shaq attacked the rim. A foul was not called on the play but Shaq was clearly banged up and grabbed his hand while grimacing. On a subsequent possession before he exited to the locker room, TNT cameras showed Davis trying to grab at Shaq’s damaged hand as O’Neal posted up on Davis in the block.
                                               
Cavaliers television analyst Austin Carr, said Boston's Glen "Big Baby" Davis bent the unwritten rules the same way he tried to twist Shaquille O'Neal's already-injured thumb Thursday night in Boston. "I thought what 'Big Baby' did showed the kind of character, or lack of it, that he has," Carr said.

 Like most viewers of the TNT telecast, he had no problem with the original injury, when Davis' flailing hand cracked Shaq's thumb as O'Neal readied to shoot a layup. Davis was making a play on the ball then.

Shaq tried to stay in the game, and that's when Davis defended the Cavs center as he posted up by grabbing the tender thumb. Apparently, Davis mistook it for a wishbone. "He crossed the line," Carr said.
                                                   By Bill Livingston, The Plain Dealer

                                     
Is this really that bad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKqPw15FRPw

I had heard about this but never saw the video until now.  I'd definitely say that was intentional, and definitely crosses the line.

Honestly, if I were Shaq I would have knocked Davis out for that.  It's a cheap move, especially from a bench nobody like Davis (in comparison to Shaq).

  I was mad at Davis for costing us the game (by getting Shaq out of it). But did he know for sure that Shaq was injured? Was that sort of grappling that different than any other time down court? It may have been intentional, I don't know, but I'm sure if you looked at every encounter under the basket you'd see something untoward.

[LooseCannon]

Here's a thought experiment.  Imagine that there is no impending lockout and the NBA will operate under the same or similar CBA for the next few years.  Another team throws big money at Big Baby Davis, who offers the Celtics a chance to match.  What size contract will cause you to prefer seeing Davis go to being an overpaid Celtics bench player? You can give separate dollar figures for 3-, 4-, and 5-year contracts.

[PatsCelts]

haha yeah Glen Davis isn't that good.

[Fan from VT]

Here's a thought experiment.  Imagine that there is no impending lockout and the NBA will operate under the same or similar CBA for the next few years.  Another team throws big money at Big Baby Davis, who offers the Celtics a chance to match.  What size contract will cause you to prefer seeing Davis go to being an overpaid Celtics bench player? You can give separate dollar figures for 3-, 4-, and 5-year contracts.

3/12
4/14.5
5/16

Longer contract =  less per year. Davis is more valuable to the C's now in "win now" mode, and less valuable as they a. have more time to find a replacement, and b. rebuild

[Spilling Green Dye]

Here's a thought experiment.  Imagine that there is no impending lockout and the NBA will operate under the same or similar CBA for the next few years.  Another team throws big money at Big Baby Davis, who offers the Celtics a chance to match.  What size contract will cause you to prefer seeing Davis go to being an overpaid Celtics bench player? You can give separate dollar figures for 3-, 4-, and 5-year contracts.

Max I'd pay him before letting him walk:

3 years:  8.5 mil
4 years:  10.5 mil
5 years:  I would let him walk, regardless of the contract.  I only want Rondo on a 5-year deal at this point.

[Jevi]

Here's a thought experiment.  Imagine that there is no impending lockout and the NBA will operate under the same or similar CBA for the next few years.  Another team throws big money at Big Baby Davis, who offers the Celtics a chance to match. What size contract will cause you to prefer seeing Davis go to being an overpaid Celtics bench player? You can give separate dollar figures for 3-, 4-, and 5-year contracts.

I'd be shock if DA had the nerve to even match  another team's proposal given his history with the bench players. I can see how TA & Eddie were insulted with taking a paycut to return, but insulting wouldn't even begin to explain what I'd feel if DA matched for....man, I just threw up in mouth!

[GreenFaith1819]

Jevi - you need to post some more.

Your Celtics Player = Posts rating is: Glen Davis

[KCattheStripe]

Here's a thought experiment.  Imagine that there is no impending lockout and the NBA will operate under the same or similar CBA for the next few years.  Another team throws big money at Big Baby Davis, who offers the Celtics a chance to match. What size contract will cause you to prefer seeing Davis go to being an overpaid Celtics bench player? You can give separate dollar figures for 3-, 4-, and 5-year contracts.

I'd be shock if DA had the nerve to even match  another team's proposal given his history with the bench players. I can see how TA & Eddie were insulted with taking a paycut to return, but insulting wouldn't even begin to explain what I'd feel if DA matched for....man, I just threw up in mouth!

Eddie was traded.

[ThaPreacher]

Jevi - you need to post some more.

Your Celtics Player = Posts rating is: Glen Davis

Which of course begs the question:  Why is he still on the forum then ****!

[the_Bird]

Here's a thought experiment.  Imagine that there is no impending lockout and the NBA will operate under the same or similar CBA for the next few years.  Another team throws big money at Big Baby Davis, who offers the Celtics a chance to match. What size contract will cause you to prefer seeing Davis go to being an overpaid Celtics bench player? You can give separate dollar figures for 3-, 4-, and 5-year contracts.

I'd be shock if DA had the nerve to even match  another team's proposal given his history with the bench players. I can see how TA & Eddie were insulted with taking a paycut to return, but insulting wouldn't even begin to explain what I'd feel if DA matched for....man, I just threw up in mouth!

Eddie was traded.

...  and every single indication was that TA left town because he wanted a chance for a bigger role, *not* because the Celtics were outbid.  Not sure what the poster is talking about.