Author Topic: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird  (Read 31102 times)

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Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2010, 05:02:57 PM »

Offline Andy Jick

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let's pretend that LeBron never wins a title...  what becomes of him then?

i see this as a real possibility for him...  I'm not real sure if LeBron sees himself as a basketball player or entertainer first... 

I know how Larry viewed himself.
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Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2010, 05:23:16 PM »

Offline Redz

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let's pretend that LeBron never wins a title...  what becomes of him then?

i see this as a real possibility for him...  I'm not real sure if LeBron sees himself as a basketball player or entertainer first... 

I know how Larry viewed himself.

I guess that makes him Dirk?

Barkley?

Mailman?

Chumpy McChumpster?
Yup

Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2010, 05:58:49 PM »

Offline Onslaught

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Hmmm...if any player in the NBA could be described as the 'natural evolution' of the Larry Bird proto-type of player (if that makes any sense) it would have to be Dirk Nowitzki - I mean how many 7 ft tall power forwards in the league can rack up 30+ points from the perimiter like 'the German' can? Can't think of too many off of the top of my head.  ???
Only thing I see similar is putting up points and being white.
In every other way Bird was better and Dirk hasn't got half of Birds killer attitude.

I hear people compare Dirk to Bird all the time and don't see it. Other than they're both ugly white guys.
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Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2010, 06:02:14 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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let's pretend that LeBron never wins a title...  what becomes of him then?

i see this as a real possibility for him...  I'm not real sure if LeBron sees himself as a basketball player or entertainer first... 

I know how Larry viewed himself.

He becomes Dominique Wilkins 2.0.
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Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2010, 06:08:47 PM »

Offline Witch-King

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let's pretend that LeBron never wins a title...  what becomes of him then?

i see this as a real possibility for him...  I'm not real sure if LeBron sees himself as a basketball player or entertainer first... 

I know how Larry viewed himself.

I guess that makes him Dirk?

Barkley?

Mailman?

Chumpy McChumpster?

well, at least Dirk has won games in the finals...

http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman2/publish/Overnights_50/NBA_Final_sinker_as_Spurs_spike_Cavs.asp
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 06:18:16 PM by Witch-King »
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Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2010, 06:47:28 PM »

Offline BballTim

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let's pretend that LeBron never wins a title...  what becomes of him then?

i see this as a real possibility for him...  I'm not real sure if LeBron sees himself as a basketball player or entertainer first... 

I know how Larry viewed himself.

I guess that makes him Dirk?

Barkley?

Mailman?

Chumpy McChumpster?

  Carmelo?

Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #66 on: March 03, 2010, 07:07:05 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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I think the amount of time the ball is in one's hand has very little to do with assist numbers.

I think the quality of team mates have a lot more to do with assist numbers.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron wouldn't need the ball in his hands as much.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron would double his assists numbers as well as double his scoring numbers.

*One can have the ball in his or her hands for less than a second and make that pass for the assist.

**Dominating the ball decreases the chances for assists and increases the number of desperate shots to beat the shot clock.

So 60 ppg with 15appg. That's what you've just said.

Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #67 on: March 03, 2010, 07:22:50 PM »

Offline LB3533

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I think the amount of time the ball is in one's hand has very little to do with assist numbers.

I think the quality of team mates have a lot more to do with assist numbers.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron wouldn't need the ball in his hands as much.

I think if Lebron had the quality teammates that Bird had, Lebron would double his assists numbers as well as double his scoring numbers.

*One can have the ball in his or her hands for less than a second and make that pass for the assist.

**Dominating the ball decreases the chances for assists and increases the number of desperate shots to beat the shot clock.

So 60 ppg with 15appg. That's what you've just said.

Yup.

Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2010, 10:14:50 AM »

Online Moranis

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James has always struck me as more Magic than Bird.
agreed.

has the ball most of the time like Magic.  Bird touched the ball a lot on offense but wasn't the one bringing it up or initiating plays unlike Lebron and Magic.

Definitely can't shoot like Bird.  Doesn't pass like him either.  Bird was able to find and make the exceptional pass where he caught the opposition napping.  Lebron, though a very gifted athlete and a good passer in his own right, doesn't make those same types of passes.  His passes are more like a PGs type of passes where he draws attention on a drive and lays it off to someone that becomes open due to a double team.
In Bird's first five seasons he was below 29% from 3 point range four times and never shot more then 1.7 per game and was only at 1 or better twice.  In his last seven seasons (not counting the 6 game season) Bird was above 40% five times and never below 33.3% and was above 2 three pointers a game every time.

Lebron in his seven seasons (including this one) has only been below 30% once (his rookie year) and has only been below 3.9 attempts his rookie year when he was at 2.7. 

Lebron and Larry have almost identical TS% and eFG% for their careers and Lebron, like Larry, is improving his shooting every season.  Sure Lebron likes to dunk, but his outside shooting is underappreciated especially given just how much more frequently he has the ball in his hand.
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Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #69 on: March 04, 2010, 01:06:10 PM »

Offline dlpin

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James has always struck me as more Magic than Bird.
agreed.

has the ball most of the time like Magic.  Bird touched the ball a lot on offense but wasn't the one bringing it up or initiating plays unlike Lebron and Magic.

Definitely can't shoot like Bird.  Doesn't pass like him either.  Bird was able to find and make the exceptional pass where he caught the opposition napping.  Lebron, though a very gifted athlete and a good passer in his own right, doesn't make those same types of passes.  His passes are more like a PGs type of passes where he draws attention on a drive and lays it off to someone that becomes open due to a double team.
In Bird's first five seasons he was below 29% from 3 point range four times and never shot more then 1.7 per game and was only at 1 or better twice.  In his last seven seasons (not counting the 6 game season) Bird was above 40% five times and never below 33.3% and was above 2 three pointers a game every time.

Lebron in his seven seasons (including this one) has only been below 30% once (his rookie year) and has only been below 3.9 attempts his rookie year when he was at 2.7. 

Lebron and Larry have almost identical TS% and eFG% for their careers and Lebron, like Larry, is improving his shooting every season.  Sure Lebron likes to dunk, but his outside shooting is underappreciated especially given just how much more frequently he has the ball in his hand.

His outside shooting is appreciated just fine, given how bad it is. TS% doesn't tell you how good his jumper is.

And you can't really compare his 3pt% with Bird's early career since most teams didn't run plays for 3 point shots back then. The seasons when Bird shot less than 29% from 3 were seasons when he averaged less than 1 3pt attempt per game, and those were mostly unplanned and uncalled. Just look at it: Bird's worst season from the 3pt line was 83-84, when he shot around 24%. But the league average that year was 25% and no team shot more than 4 a game. Now, teams have game plans centered around the 3pt shot, and Lebron is shootin 34.7 in a year the league average is 35.2.


Look at hoopdata's breakdown of Lebron's shooting by distance: 29% between 10-15 feet, 39% between 16-23, 35% beyond 23. Kobe, meanwhile, hits 49% from 10-15 feet, 42 from 16-23, and 32 from beyond 23 feet.

Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2010, 01:41:40 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

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If LeBron doesn't win a title, then where does he fall in the list of the best players who didn't win it all...

  • Elgin Baylor
  • Charles Barkley
  • Patrick Ewing
  • Pete Maravich
  • Bernard King
  • Karl Malone
  • John Stockton

Darn, Bob MacAdoo was so lucky to have been able to ride the pine for the Lakers or he'd be on the list as well.

Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2010, 02:11:21 PM »

Offline PLamb

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If LeBron doesn't win a title, then where does he fall in the list of the best players who didn't win it all...

  • Elgin Baylor
  • Charles Barkley
  • Patrick Ewing
  • Pete Maravich
  • Bernard King
  • Karl Malone
  • John Stockton

Darn, Bob MacAdoo was so lucky to have been able to ride the pine for the Lakers or he'd be on the list as well.

Not a horrible listed to be included in

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Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2010, 03:00:32 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

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Quote
Not a horrible listed to be included in

What do you mean? It sucks!

I can't imagine how Baylor, the Michael Jordan of the 60s, feels having had Game 7's taken away from him by Russell and company.

I mean right now, Greg Kite is sipping Martinis, with a ring on his mantle, for roughing up Kareem and Worthy. Most of the time, however, he was simply riding the pine.

Baylor can't savor that moment. All he can do is remember wasted 60-70 point efforts to no title. At least MacAdoo got his scoring titles, season MVP, and rode the pine to a ring. That's not a bad way to go out.

Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2010, 03:49:36 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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If LeBron doesn't win a title, then where does he fall in the list of the best players who didn't win it all...

  • Elgin Baylor
  • Charles Barkley
  • Patrick Ewing
  • Pete Maravich
  • Bernard King
  • Karl Malone
  • John Stockton

Darn, Bob MacAdoo was so lucky to have been able to ride the pine for the Lakers or he'd be on the list as well.

Not a horrible listed to be included in



True PLamb but whether it's fair or not, history will view these guys as lesser players because of their team's shortcomings.

Re: Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2010, 06:09:20 PM »

Offline Andy Jick

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the only reason why we remember Elgin Baylor is because of the term "triple double."  without that, he'd hardly get a sniff...
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