Wall Street Journal compares LeBron to Bird

[Donoghus]

Lebron is the best at what he does, which is using his athleticism to beat his man off the dribble and penetrating. He might even be better at that than Jordan, given his size and strength.

The problem with Lebron, though, is that he is a worse all around player than Jordan and, currently, even Bird. His 45% eFG% on jump shots is terrible (compare it to Pierce's 51.5%), he shoots less than 40% on the long 2, and his 35% 3fg is not good for someone who attempts 5 3s a game.

Now, those numbers are relatively reasonable when compared to other good players of today, but when the talk is "best of all time" or "top 5 of all time," those numbers point to significant limitations in his game.

So until he gets a jumpshot or a post game, I wouldn't compare him to Bird or Magic, much less to Jordan. His multiple playoff failures show that. He can get there, but its not a given.

He's still awfully young and it wasn't like Jordan had it right away, either.  There were plenty of playoff failures for Jordan before '90-91 and his game definitely changed as his career progressed.  The Jordan of the nineties was a more complete and refined player than the Jordan of the '80s.

Much like Jordan, I think LBJ will get that jumper down as he progresses in his career.  I don't think he'll have the 6 rings but we certainly haven't seen his ceiling as a player. 

While Jordan's jumper wasn't as good early on as it was later on, nevertheless it was better than Lebron's from the start.

And I don't think Lebron's getting better is a given in any way.

Barring injuries or some other unforseen events (See Michael Vick), I do think Lebron's game is going to get better and improve. 

[BballTim]

Lebron is the best at what he does, which is using his athleticism to beat his man off the dribble and penetrating. He might even be better at that than Jordan, given his size and strength.

The problem with Lebron, though, is that he is a worse all around player than Jordan and, currently, even Bird. His 45% eFG% on jump shots is terrible (compare it to Pierce's 51.5%), he shoots less than 40% on the long 2, and his 35% 3fg is not good for someone who attempts 5 3s a game.

Now, those numbers are relatively reasonable when compared to other good players of today, but when the talk is "best of all time" or "top 5 of all time," those numbers point to significant limitations in his game.

So until he gets a jumpshot or a post game, I wouldn't compare him to Bird or Magic, much less to Jordan. His multiple playoff failures show that. He can get there, but its not a given.

He's still awfully young and it wasn't like Jordan had it right away, either.  There were plenty of playoff failures for Jordan before '90-91 and his game definitely changed as his career progressed.  The Jordan of the nineties was a more complete and refined player than the Jordan of the '80s.

Much like Jordan, I think LBJ will get that jumper down as he progresses in his career.  I don't think he'll have the 6 rings but we certainly haven't seen his ceiling as a player. 

  While Jordan improved as a player his stats didn't improve from when he was LeBron's age. He developed a better outside shot with age but took the ball to the rim less often so it was probably worse than a wash statistically.

[LB3533]

Iverson is a great passer.

I would like to see Magic and Bird be "2 steps" ahead of everyone else if Scal was either one's teammate or if your 2nd best player is Delonte West.

[Donoghus]

Lebron is the best at what he does, which is using his athleticism to beat his man off the dribble and penetrating. He might even be better at that than Jordan, given his size and strength.

The problem with Lebron, though, is that he is a worse all around player than Jordan and, currently, even Bird. His 45% eFG% on jump shots is terrible (compare it to Pierce's 51.5%), he shoots less than 40% on the long 2, and his 35% 3fg is not good for someone who attempts 5 3s a game.

Now, those numbers are relatively reasonable when compared to other good players of today, but when the talk is "best of all time" or "top 5 of all time," those numbers point to significant limitations in his game.

So until he gets a jumpshot or a post game, I wouldn't compare him to Bird or Magic, much less to Jordan. His multiple playoff failures show that. He can get there, but its not a given.

He's still awfully young and it wasn't like Jordan had it right away, either.  There were plenty of playoff failures for Jordan before '90-91 and his game definitely changed as his career progressed.  The Jordan of the nineties was a more complete and refined player than the Jordan of the '80s.

Much like Jordan, I think LBJ will get that jumper down as he progresses in his career.  I don't think he'll have the 6 rings but we certainly haven't seen his ceiling as a player. 

  While Jordan improved as a player his stats didn't improve from when he was LeBron's age. He developed a better outside shot with age but took the ball to the rim less often so it was probably worse than a wash statistically.

Yeah, because the talent around Jordan got significantly better as his career progressed.  He didn't have to do as much although he was still clearly the alpha dog.

[BballTim]

Iverson is a great passer.

I would like to see Magic and Bird be "2 steps" ahead of everyone else if Scal was either one's teammate or if your 2nd best player is Delonte West.

  I hope you're not comparing AI to Bird as a passer. He was 2 steps ahead when we were starting players like Gamble, Shaw, Bagley and Pinckney.
   

[dlpin]

Two points:

1- Yes, when Jordan started dominating the playoffs, he had better talent around him. But the eastern conference was also much, much better back then. Other than the celtics in 07-08, Lebron and the cavs have not faced a great team before the finals (so before anyone mentions the spurs, Im talking about before the finals). Jordan started getting more help with Pippen and Grant, but before and after that he played some teams that would dominate today.

2- The talent around Lebron for the past 2 seasons has been severely underrated, and part of the reason for that is that Lebron dominates the ball so much. In fact, in those 07 and 08 playoffs, with the exception of one game against the pistons and one game against the celtics, the cavs moved on despite Lebron's play, not because of it. Lebron might lack a "second banana" type of player (though that is not true anymore with Jamison), but most of the rest of the cavs top 8 rotation would start or be a 6th man in most of the league.

[Greenbean]

Iverson is a great passer.

I would like to see Magic and Bird be "2 steps" ahead of everyone else if Scal was either one's teammate or if your 2nd best player is Delonte West.

  I hope you're not comparing AI to Bird as a passer. He was 2 steps ahead when we were starting players like Gamble, Shaw, Bagley and Pinckney.
   

Iverson can pass, but he doesnt want to.

[Lucky17]

I think Toine had a little Larry in him.

You know what I'm talking about. Somebody Photobucket that Toine pic for a side-by-side comparison for the rest of us.

[TitleMaster]

vastly underrating Bird's athleticism.

One of Bird's issue, which even he mentioned about playing Rodman was the Rodman didn't easily fall for his fakes, and as a result, Bird wasn't quite able to flummox him with a followup fake, shake, & move. He was then in a committed play which is the result of not having the same foot speed of a quicker defender. If LB's brain had a LBJ's body, he could bamboozle Rodman all night with higher speed combinations and thus, draw fouls constantly without end. Rodman would need constant help defense, Bird would then dart the ball off to the driver in the open lane. The Pistons of the late 80s would not have an answer for this beast.

vastly underrating Lebron's "Bball IQ"

Bird's passing requires psychic skills. It's seldom that one would have one's back towards two defenders, not seeing who's where, glance away from the two fellows (with a split second fake move to pivot, thus generating the distraction), and dart a pass over two men w/o either of them seeing it, in time for them to throw an arm up for deflection. Realize, there's four potential arms there.

Sorry, but the present LeBron can't do the above. He's a good passer, but not a truly psychic one. Now, give LBJ's brain Bird's body, and during double teams, the passes will start to get deflected away, leading to a turnover. Thus, he'll limit his passing to that of the standard back cutter, no-look behind the back during a run 'n gun, etc, then anything of substantial psychic prowess. He'd clearly be less of a player.
 

[Donoghus]

vastly underrating Bird's athleticism.

One of Bird's issue, which even he mentioned about playing Rodman was the Rodman didn't easily fall for his fakes, and as a result, Bird wasn't quite able to flummox him with a followup fake, shake, & move. He was then in a committed play which is the result of not having the same foot speed of a quicker defender. If LB's brain had a LBJ's body, he could bamboozle Rodman all night with higher speed combinations and thus, draw fouls constantly without end. Rodman would need constant help defense, Bird would then dart the ball off to the driver in the open lane. The Pistons of the late 80s would not have an answer for this beast.


 

I'm pretty sure they would.  It's called the "Jordan Rules".  They would've beaten and maimed LBJ every time he drove the lane and they would've gotten away with it too considering the way the game was governed in the late 80s. They also would've double-teamed him raggedly. The Pistons were that good defensively back then.

[Witch-King]

Hmmm...if any player in the NBA could be described as the 'natural evolution' of the Larry Bird proto-type of player (if that makes any sense) it would have to be Dirk Nowitzki - I mean how many 7 ft tall power forwards in the league can rack up 30+ points from the perimiter like 'the German' can? Can't think of too many off of the top of my head. 

[soap07]

Lebron is the best at what he does, which is using his athleticism to beat his man off the dribble and penetrating. He might even be better at that than Jordan, given his size and strength.

The problem with Lebron, though, is that he is a worse all around player than Jordan and, currently, even Bird. His 45% eFG% on jump shots is terrible (compare it to Pierce's 51.5%), he shoots less than 40% on the long 2, and his 35% 3fg is not good for someone who attempts 5 3s a game.

Now, those numbers are relatively reasonable when compared to other good players of today, but when the talk is "best of all time" or "top 5 of all time," those numbers point to significant limitations in his game.

So until he gets a jumpshot or a post game, I wouldn't compare him to Bird or Magic, much less to Jordan. His multiple playoff failures show that. He can get there, but its not a given.

He's still awfully young and it wasn't like Jordan had it right away, either.  There were plenty of playoff failures for Jordan before '90-91 and his game definitely changed as his career progressed.  The Jordan of the nineties was a more complete and refined player than the Jordan of the '80s.

Much like Jordan, I think LBJ will get that jumper down as he progresses in his career.  I don't think he'll have the 6 rings but we certainly haven't seen his ceiling as a player. 

While Jordan's jumper wasn't as good early on as it was later on, nevertheless it was better than Lebron's from the start.

And I don't think Lebron's getting better is a given in any way.

Lebron's three point percentage was 29% when he entered the league. This year - that number is up to a very respectable 35%. He has literally become better in every single category since he's entered the league :  Defense, rebounding, passing, shooting etc...what more evidence do you need?

[Redz]

Hmmm...if any player in the NBA could be described as the 'natural evolution' of the Larry Bird proto-type of player (if that makes any sense) it would have to be Dirk Nowitzki - I mean how many 7 ft tall power forwards in the league can rack up 30+ points from the perimiter like 'the German' can? Can't think of too many off of the top of my head. 

Dirk's not the passer Larry was.  Then again Larry's wasn't the slasher Lebron is.  The only thing similar between Lebron and Larry are the stats.

[TitleMaster]

They would've beaten and maimed LBJ every time he drove the lane and they would've gotten away with it too considering the way the game was governed in the late 80s. They also would've double-teamed him raggedly.

With Bird's brain, he'd either kill 'em on the perimeter, with quicker pull up jumpers, or setup Ilgauskas/Williams/Jamison to score at will. Right now, the present day LBJ needs to first penetrate, before he finds his sweet spot, thus, setting up the Pistons to maim him before he gets into a scoring rhythm. Bird's brain can control a game w/o having to touch the ball.

Don't get me wrong, if the Pistons have their scoring game w/ Dumars, Vinnie, and Aguirre, they'd still win since it's always better to have more star power, than one superstar. I have no doubt that the Pistons of the 80s could outscore the Cavs but in this case, defense alone, won't do the trick.

Realize, during the '08 finals, the Celts did pretty much the same thing to Kobe, however, Kobe was less of a player than Bird's brain so his passes and timing was easier to anticipate. C's defenses had no trouble w/ an offense which flowed through Kobe's moves.

[dlpin]

Lebron's three point percentage was 29% when he entered the league. This year - that number is up to a very respectable 35%. He has literally become better in every single category since he's entered the league :  Defense, rebounding, passing, shooting etc...what more evidence do you need?

The fact that he has gotten better to this point does not mean he will continue to improve at the same rate. In addition to that, a lot of his stats have improved because they have used him more.

Other than assist rate, all other rate stats are down: rebounding, steals, blocks, defensive ratings... and his accuracy on the 2pt jumpshot is also down. From 10-23 feet he is worse now than he was 2 seasons ago.


Again, Im not doing this to say he isn't good. I think he may very well be the best ever at what he does well, which is driving to the hoop and finishing or finding an open team mate. But if his strengths are stronger, his weaknesses are weaker. He is shooting respectably from 3 because teams simply lay off him in the perimeter.

Can he fix those? Sure. But while he may be young in age, this is already his 7th season. And if he doesn't win it all this season, it will be harder and harder to use his teammates as an excuse.