Bill Walker's play with the Knicks...(merged)

[MBz]

Where are all the Walker-ites tonight?

I'm only askin' since some of you like to play this game.

More personal fouls than points tonight...Someone hurry and take that jersey down from the MSG rafters...

Most of us know he isnt a defensive guy, but the Celtics were looking for an athletic wing who could score.  That sounds like Bill Walker to me!

[PLamb]

Where are all the Walker-ites tonight?

I'm only askin' since some of you like to play this game.

More personal fouls than points tonight...Someone hurry and take that jersey down from the MSG rafters...

Most of us know he isnt a defensive guy, but the Celtics were looking for an athletic wing who could score.  That sounds like Bill Walker to me!

NO

The Celtics were looking for an athletic wing that could play defense

From the moment he arrived Danny and Doc discussed the need for backup wings that could play defense.

[MBz]

Where are all the Walker-ites tonight?

I'm only askin' since some of you like to play this game.

More personal fouls than points tonight...Someone hurry and take that jersey down from the MSG rafters...

Most of us know he isnt a defensive guy, but the Celtics were looking for an athletic wing who could score.  That sounds like Bill Walker to me!

NO

The Celtics were looking for an athletic wing that could play defense

From the moment he arrived Danny and Doc discussed the need for backup wings that could play defense.

I disagree, we had that in Tony Allen.  We needed offense off the bench that was what we were missing.  That's why Danny went out and got Nate Robinson, because we needed someone explosive off the bench.

[buellj814]

just to reemphasize what i have been saying the past couple weeks when the knicks are in competitive games.. bill walker does not play.. after starting for two games that experiment has ended quickly and now he is back to making his impressions mostly during garbage time!

i hope people who actually talk about walker's game since he came to NY have actually watched and not just looked at box scores

[Bossco]

just to reemphasize what i have been saying the past couple weeks when the knicks are in competitive games.. bill walker does not play.. after starting for two games that experiment has ended quickly and now he is back to making his impressions mostly during garbage time!

i hope people who actually talk about walker's game since he came to NY have actually watched and not just looked at box scores

I haven't been able to see him play in NY, but the box scores don't lie. He is averaging 25 mpg. How is that garbage time?  His last outing he played 15 min., but before that it was 25, 33, 21, 35, 27, 26 etc.

I am really looking forward to seeing him play us on Wed. - should be interesting. I hope he gets a lot of minutes.

Got to give him time in games - something doc couldn't bring himself to do. Playing in games is what it is all about. This "the coach sees him in practice or he didn't earn playing time in practice" is a scam.

The main point is we have a limited ability to add players to this team. We must explore whether or not our draft picks can play. doc doesn't do that. He takes the chance (by not playing them much when there are injuries or even in blowouts) that one or more of those guys could develop into decent players.

What if Bill Walker develops into a good player? Won't you consider that a mistake? I am not sure either, but I would like to see our coach find out first before we let them go.

[PLamb]

Where are all the Walker-ites tonight?

I'm only askin' since some of you like to play this game.

More personal fouls than points tonight...Someone hurry and take that jersey down from the MSG rafters...

Most of us know he isnt a defensive guy, but the Celtics were looking for an athletic wing who could score.  That sounds like Bill Walker to me!

NO

The Celtics were looking for an athletic wing that could play defense

From the moment he arrived Danny and Doc discussed the need for backup wings that could play defense.

I disagree, we had that in Tony Allen.  We needed offense off the bench that was what we were missing.  That's why Danny went out and got Nate Robinson, because we needed someone explosive off the bench.

Again, wrong

Danny went out and got Nate to add a stabilizing PG presence to the second unit and to give Rondo a real back up

It has been the fans perception that Danny had to go out and get some scoring for the bench but Danny always considered the Nate deal a minor deal to tweak the roster, mostly to give the back ups a true PG that could bring up the ball and run the offense

From the moment Giddens and Walker were drafted and Posey was let go to New Orleans Danny talked about the need for Walker and Giddens to develop into a defensive minded SF

Tony is a SG plain and simple but can't guard SFs

Rasheed, Daniels, Baby and House were to be the offense off the bench

When Daniels and Pierce went down and Rasheed and Baby struggled there became a temporary need for bench scoring

But the overall strategy was for Walker to be a defense SF off the bench while others were the scorers

Walker did not fit that role at all

He might someday be a nice scoring SF coming off the bench for teams, but that was NEVER the role he was brought here to fill

And he can't fill that role because he is a bad defender

BTW, I caught the first half of last night's game

Walker played a decent stretch in the first half not in garbage time

Problem was Willie Green lit him up for like 10 or 12 points in that time, maybe more but I think McGrady had him a bit too

[Bossco]

I couldn't watch the C's/Knicks game last night. Anyone want to comment on how Walker and Giddens looked? Any reason given why Eddie didn't play?

Where are all the Walker-ites tonight?

I'm only askin' since some of you like to play this game.

More personal fouls than points tonight...Someone hurry and take that jersey down from the MSG rafters...

Most of us know he isnt a defensive guy, but the Celtics were looking for an athletic wing who could score.  That sounds like Bill Walker to me!

NO

The Celtics were looking for an athletic wing that could play defense

From the moment he arrived Danny and Doc discussed the need for backup wings that could play defense.

I disagree, we had that in Tony Allen.  We needed offense off the bench that was what we were missing.  That's why Danny went out and got Nate Robinson, because we needed someone explosive off the bench.

Again, wrong

Danny went out and got Nate to add a stabilizing PG presence to the second unit and to give Rondo a real back up

It has been the fans perception that Danny had to go out and get some scoring for the bench but Danny always considered the Nate deal a minor deal to tweak the roster, mostly to give the back ups a true PG that could bring up the ball and run the offense

From the moment Giddens and Walker were drafted and Posey was let go to New Orleans Danny talked about the need for Walker and Giddens to develop into a defensive minded SF

Tony is a SG plain and simple but can't guard SFs

Rasheed, Daniels, Baby and House were to be the offense off the bench

When Daniels and Pierce went down and Rasheed and Baby struggled there became a temporary need for bench scoring

But the overall strategy was for Walker to be a defense SF off the bench while others were the scorers

Walker did not fit that role at all

He might someday be a nice scoring SF coming off the bench for teams, but that was NEVER the role he was brought here to fill

And he can't fill that role because he is a bad defender

BTW, I caught the first half of last night's game

Walker played a decent stretch in the first half not in garbage time

Problem was Willie Green lit him up for like 10 or 12 points in that time, maybe more but I think McGrady had him a bit too

I don't follow college basketball very closely so I wasn't familiar with Walker's game. I went back and read some bios on him. He was mostly spoken of as an explosive - athletic type. He could leap and get to the rim. Needed to work on his outside shot, played decent D and loved to dunk. I am not sure why he was supposed to only be a defensive stopper for us. It seems to me that he has a lot assets that could be used other than just that. Why ignore his natural talents and try to fit him into a box and say we only want you to do this (play defense). Why not "wind him up and let him go" as doc spoke about Nate?

I don't think Nate is a true point guard. He has to play that position because he is so short, but his game is not about distributing the ball. doc wants him to run and shoot.

[Cman]

I couldn't watch the C's/Knicks game last night. Anyone want to comment on how Walker and Giddens looked? Any reason given why Eddie didn't play?

-I think the fact that there aren't a whole lot of posts in this thread, nor a new "Bill Walker is great" thread tells you all you need to know about Bill's game last night.

-The box score tells you everything about JR (2 boards, 4 pts, 2 fouls in a blowout loss).

-I'm curious about Eddie myself.

[nickagneta]

Bossco, they didn't ignore his other attributes. But this team has very clearly defined roles and the role that they needed Walker to fill was that of an energy boosting, defensive wing player. If he could be be an occasional scorer and help spread the floor with an outside shot, even better. But after one and a half seasons it was pretty obvious he couldn't do at this level what the scouts were claiming he could might be able to do, defensively speaking.

And no, Nate is not a 100% pure PG but he fits that description about 1000% better than Eddie House does. He can handle the ball better than Eddie. He has more ways to score than Eddie. He can bring the ball up under pressure better than Eddie. He can run an offense better than Eddie. He's just a better overall player with skills this team needed off the bench that they needed Eddie to have and didn't.

So they traded a clearly inferior talent in Giddens, a player that looked to have decent scoring talent but no defensive talent, Walker and Eddie for Nate and Landry. Nate was the best player in the deal so I say it was well worth it.

Also, some people are going to point to Finley's addition as proof of the need for a scoring SF off the bench but listen carefully to what Danny, Doc and KG had to say about his addition. They all mentioned Finley's ability to pick up the help rotational defense they play very quickly because Popovich runs a similar scheme in San Antonio. They all mentioned that being important. So yeah, Finley can score and shoot but it was important he come in and be able to pick up and run the defense right away. That speaks volumes, as far as I am concerned, about the role Walker had to play.

[clover]

I couldn't watch the C's/Knicks game last night. Anyone want to comment on how Walker and Giddens looked? Any reason given why Eddie didn't play?

Where are all the Walker-ites tonight?

I'm only askin' since some of you like to play this game.

More personal fouls than points tonight...Someone hurry and take that jersey down from the MSG rafters...

Most of us know he isnt a defensive guy, but the Celtics were looking for an athletic wing who could score.  That sounds like Bill Walker to me!

NO

The Celtics were looking for an athletic wing that could play defense

From the moment he arrived Danny and Doc discussed the need for backup wings that could play defense.

I disagree, we had that in Tony Allen.  We needed offense off the bench that was what we were missing.  That's why Danny went out and got Nate Robinson, because we needed someone explosive off the bench.

Again, wrong

Danny went out and got Nate to add a stabilizing PG presence to the second unit and to give Rondo a real back up

It has been the fans perception that Danny had to go out and get some scoring for the bench but Danny always considered the Nate deal a minor deal to tweak the roster, mostly to give the back ups a true PG that could bring up the ball and run the offense

From the moment Giddens and Walker were drafted and Posey was let go to New Orleans Danny talked about the need for Walker and Giddens to develop into a defensive minded SF

Tony is a SG plain and simple but can't guard SFs

Rasheed, Daniels, Baby and House were to be the offense off the bench

When Daniels and Pierce went down and Rasheed and Baby struggled there became a temporary need for bench scoring

But the overall strategy was for Walker to be a defense SF off the bench while others were the scorers

Walker did not fit that role at all

He might someday be a nice scoring SF coming off the bench for teams, but that was NEVER the role he was brought here to fill

And he can't fill that role because he is a bad defender

BTW, I caught the first half of last night's game

Walker played a decent stretch in the first half not in garbage time

Problem was Willie Green lit him up for like 10 or 12 points in that time, maybe more but I think McGrady had him a bit too

I don't follow college basketball very closely so I wasn't familiar with Walker's game. I went back and read some bios on him. He was mostly spoken of as an explosive - athletic type. He could leap and get to the rim. Needed to work on his outside shot, played decent D and loved to dunk. I am not sure why he was supposed to only be a defensive stopper for us. It seems to me that he has a lot assets that could be used other than just that. Why ignore his natural talents and try to fit him into a box and say we only want you to do this (play defense). Why not "wind him up and let him go" as doc spoke about Nate?

I don't think Nate is a true point guard. He has to play that position because he is so short, but his game is not about distributing the ball. doc wants him to run and shoot.

I think it fits Doc's pattern generally.  If you're a veteran or someone he really needs and wants to play, he'll work to playing to your strengths and covering for your weaknesses (e.g., Eddie House).  If you're a regular rookie on not-yet-established guy, however, he'll try to hold you to correcting your weaknesses before you you play--and exposing them when you do.

I see the rationale but sometimes it is counterproductive because if you played to guys' strengths enough to get them out on the floor they'd have a better chance to work on and learn how to overcome their weaknesses.

[nickagneta]

I couldn't watch the C's/Knicks game last night. Anyone want to comment on how Walker and Giddens looked? Any reason given why Eddie didn't play?

Where are all the Walker-ites tonight?

I'm only askin' since some of you like to play this game.

More personal fouls than points tonight...Someone hurry and take that jersey down from the MSG rafters...

Most of us know he isnt a defensive guy, but the Celtics were looking for an athletic wing who could score.  That sounds like Bill Walker to me!

NO

The Celtics were looking for an athletic wing that could play defense

From the moment he arrived Danny and Doc discussed the need for backup wings that could play defense.

I disagree, we had that in Tony Allen.  We needed offense off the bench that was what we were missing.  That's why Danny went out and got Nate Robinson, because we needed someone explosive off the bench.

Again, wrong

Danny went out and got Nate to add a stabilizing PG presence to the second unit and to give Rondo a real back up

It has been the fans perception that Danny had to go out and get some scoring for the bench but Danny always considered the Nate deal a minor deal to tweak the roster, mostly to give the back ups a true PG that could bring up the ball and run the offense

From the moment Giddens and Walker were drafted and Posey was let go to New Orleans Danny talked about the need for Walker and Giddens to develop into a defensive minded SF

Tony is a SG plain and simple but can't guard SFs

Rasheed, Daniels, Baby and House were to be the offense off the bench

When Daniels and Pierce went down and Rasheed and Baby struggled there became a temporary need for bench scoring

But the overall strategy was for Walker to be a defense SF off the bench while others were the scorers

Walker did not fit that role at all

He might someday be a nice scoring SF coming off the bench for teams, but that was NEVER the role he was brought here to fill

And he can't fill that role because he is a bad defender

BTW, I caught the first half of last night's game

Walker played a decent stretch in the first half not in garbage time

Problem was Willie Green lit him up for like 10 or 12 points in that time, maybe more but I think McGrady had him a bit too

I don't follow college basketball very closely so I wasn't familiar with Walker's game. I went back and read some bios on him. He was mostly spoken of as an explosive - athletic type. He could leap and get to the rim. Needed to work on his outside shot, played decent D and loved to dunk. I am not sure why he was supposed to only be a defensive stopper for us. It seems to me that he has a lot assets that could be used other than just that. Why ignore his natural talents and try to fit him into a box and say we only want you to do this (play defense). Why not "wind him up and let him go" as doc spoke about Nate?

I don't think Nate is a true point guard. He has to play that position because he is so short, but his game is not about distributing the ball. doc wants him to run and shoot.

I think it fits Doc's pattern generally.  If you're a veteran or someone he really needs and wants to play, he'll work to playing to your strengths and covering for your weaknesses (e.g., Eddie House).  If you're a regular rookie on not-yet-established guy, however, he'll try to hold you to correcting your weaknesses before you you play--and exposing them when you do.

I see the rationale but sometimes it is counterproductive because if you played to guys' strengths enough to get them out on the floor they'd have a better chance to work on and learn how to overcome their weaknesses.

Sometimes

But more often with young players that you want to mold by giving them playing time and not exposing their weaknesses they assume what you want is what they are doing, which generally means their strengths. If Doc gave Walker minutes and Walker just did what he is doing in New York, shooting and scoring without in hint of defense, the media would bring attention to his scoring and he would assume that is what he is out there for and not work on the parts of the game that is really important to the coach for a player off the bench, defense.

Say what you want about the vets Danny brought in taking time from young players but they generally, to a man, played defense as well as they possibly could and made an effort every minute they could out there to play great defense. PJ Brown, Sam Cassell, Stephon Marbury, Nate Robinson, Michael Finley. All vets brought in but can you honestly say they didn't give everything they had on the defensive end when they were here. Vets get and understand defense, rookies generally do not and the ones that do get playing time from Doc.

[LB3533]

I think if we had young players who could play, Doc would play them.

Rondo and Big Baby, both played a ton during their 2nd year. They helped us win.

Walker and Giddens never showed they were capable of helping us win...maybe just capable of highlights.

[Chief]

I think if we had young players who could play, Doc would play them.

Rondo and Big Baby, both played a ton during their 2nd year. They helped us win.

Walker and Giddens never showed they were capable of helping us win...maybe just capable of highlights.

Walker was a better option than Scals.

[Chris]

Again, not to beat a dead horse, but Bill Walker was injured the the most important part of the season.  He was not back to 100% (and back in shape), until right before Marquis Daniels came back.  Combine that with the fact that Tony Allen was playing the best basketball of his career, and I find it hard to blame Doc for not force-feeding him minutes.

Walker got some run at the end of next season, despite the fact that he clearly wasn't ready, and before Daniels came back, he was starting to be integrated a bit into the rotation. 

I think if he had not been injured this season, he would have seen a ton of minutes earlier in the season, when they were desperate for wing help.  Unfortunately, his injury held him back, just like injuries have hurt the rest of his career.

[Birdbrain]

I just wish we could have kept him around.  He's developing pretty nicely with playing time.  Not that he really could get that in Boston.  He also seems to be taking the high road and realizes it's a business.  I'll be rooting for him.