Bill Walker's play with the Knicks...(merged)

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Every time I see a thread like this I ask the same question: name me one young player that Doc refused to play who is now making an impact on his current NBA team. The answer of course is, there are none.

Right.  I've read thought quite a few times on the board.

I wonder, though, if all the bloated, guaranteed contracts are clogging rosters and making 2nd opportunities nearly impossible?

I wonder if teams don't have their own draft picks and young players to develop, and just can't fit another on their roster?

I wonder if position is a factor?

I wonder if some teams with a roster spot would rather leave it open than pay more luxury taxes?

I wonder if teams (including the C's) would rather give a minimum deal to a veteran with some name recognition to sell tickets than to a young player, even if he has more talent?

And I say yes to all, which seems to limit the strength of that particular argument.  

I think that yes, a player needs talent, but that talent needs to be developed as well, which takes a committment from the team.  The Celtics haven't been committed to that since the Big 3 got here, and have made no secret of that fact.  It doesn't mean the players don't have the ability.

[sk7326]

Every time I see a thread like this I ask the same question: name me one young player that Doc refused to play who is now making an impact on his current NBA team. The answer of course is, there are none.

Right.  I've read thought quite a few times on the board.

I wonder, though, if all the bloated, guaranteed contracts are clogging rosters and making 2nd opportunities nearly impossible?

I wonder if teams don't have their own draft picks and young players to develop, and just can't fit another on their roster?

I wonder if position is a factor?

I wonder if some teams with a roster spot would rather leave it open than pay more luxury taxes?

I wonder if teams (including the C's) would rather give a minimum deal to a veteran with some name recognition to sell tickets than to a young player, even if he has more talent?

And I say yes to all, which seems to limit the strength of that particular argument.  

I think that yes, a player needs talent, but that talent needs to be developed as well, which takes a committment from the team.  The Celtics haven't been committed to that since the Big 3 got here, and have made no secret of that fact.  It doesn't mean the players don't have the ability.

I think that's a REALLY good point.  I don't think good teams WANT first round picks and their guaranteed contracts for sure.  Second rounders are better because they offer more leverage to the team.

I've wondered - in this NBA - the way the NBDL and stuff work ... whether a supplemental draft would work in the NBA.  For instance, suppose you took every rookie who played less than 800 minutes in 2 years (40 games, 20 minutes per game ... this seems like a VERY reasonable expectation to me) and they became eligible for a second chance draft.

Then a team might draft him (like in baseball) at the cost of a 2nd rounder or something ...

[Larry for 3]

Bill Walker never got the opportunity to contribute to the Boston celtics--- Scal @ TA got more minutes than Bill.  Either Walker was the worst practice player in the NBA or the Celtics "might" have missed on this one.  I love how people dont think this administration is capable of making the wrong call on a player.  They have a perfect record accodring to people on here

[liam]

Bill Walker scores some points in a blowout loss and we let go of a great player?  Didn't Nate score over 40 for the Knicks this year in a win?

[buellj814]

Bill Walker never got the opportunity to contribute to the Boston celtics--- Scal @ TA got more minutes than Bill.  Either Walker was the worst practice player in the NBA or the Celtics "might" have missed on this one.  I love how people dont think this administration is capable of making the wrong call on a player.  They have a perfect record accodring to people on here

ur completely missing the point.. nobody has gone on to be good after the celtics either!!! its not like they left the team under doc and become an all star.. soo who is the player???

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Every time I see a thread like this I ask the same question: name me one young player that Doc refused to play who is now making an impact on his current NBA team. The answer of course is, there are none.

Right.  I've read thought quite a few times on the board.

I wonder, though, if all the bloated, guaranteed contracts are clogging rosters and making 2nd opportunities nearly impossible?

I wonder if teams don't have their own draft picks and young players to develop, and just can't fit another on their roster?

I wonder if position is a factor?

I wonder if some teams with a roster spot would rather leave it open than pay more luxury taxes?

I wonder if teams (including the C's) would rather give a minimum deal to a veteran with some name recognition to sell tickets than to a young player, even if he has more talent?

And I say yes to all, which seems to limit the strength of that particular argument.  

I think that yes, a player needs talent, but that talent needs to be developed as well, which takes a committment from the team.  The Celtics haven't been committed to that since the Big 3 got here, and have made no secret of that fact.  It doesn't mean the players don't have the ability.

I think that's a REALLY good point.  I don't think good teams WANT first round picks and their guaranteed contracts for sure.  Second rounders are better because they offer more leverage to the team.

I've wondered - in this NBA - the way the NBDL and stuff work ... whether a supplemental draft would work in the NBA.  For instance, suppose you took every rookie who played less than 800 minutes in 2 years (40 games, 20 minutes per game ... this seems like a VERY reasonable expectation to me) and they became eligible for a second chance draft.

Then a team might draft him (like in baseball) at the cost of a 2nd rounder or something ...

Interesting ideas.  Something different would be nice, I think.

I like the idea of doing an expansion draft-sort of thing every year:  A team selects their top 8-9 players to protect, then it's open season on the rest.  Teams get continuity of players, but have to choose who to protect.  Young players get a 2nd chance to go where they're really wanted.  I like that idea.

[PLamb]

Every time I see a thread like this I ask the same question: name me one young player that Doc refused to play who is now making an impact on his current NBA team. The answer of course is, there are none.

Right.  I've read thought quite a few times on the board.

I wonder, though, if all the bloated, guaranteed contracts are clogging rosters and making 2nd opportunities nearly impossible?

I wonder if teams don't have their own draft picks and young players to develop, and just can't fit another on their roster?

I wonder if position is a factor?

I wonder if some teams with a roster spot would rather leave it open than pay more luxury taxes?

I wonder if teams (including the C's) would rather give a minimum deal to a veteran with some name recognition to sell tickets than to a young player, even if he has more talent?

And I say yes to all, which seems to limit the strength of that particular argument.  

I think that yes, a player needs talent, but that talent needs to be developed as well, which takes a committment from the team.  The Celtics haven't been committed to that since the Big 3 got here, and have made no secret of that fact.  It doesn't mean the players don't have the ability.

I think that's a REALLY good point.  I don't think good teams WANT first round picks and their guaranteed contracts for sure.  Second rounders are better because they offer more leverage to the team.

I've wondered - in this NBA - the way the NBDL and stuff work ... whether a supplemental draft would work in the NBA.  For instance, suppose you took every rookie who played less than 800 minutes in 2 years (40 games, 20 minutes per game ... this seems like a VERY reasonable expectation to me) and they became eligible for a second chance draft.

Then a team might draft him (like in baseball) at the cost of a 2nd rounder or something ...

Or it could be the glaringly simple explanation that after a decade of Doc coaching in the NBA, the people who he didn't play just weren't that talented

But, no that can't be it

Let's make up all these convoluted possibilities to explain away the obvious

That Doc Rivers, in a decade of coaching, has never not played a player who then went on to be successful elsewhere

Why?

Maybe because he's a [dang] good judge of young talent

But heavens to bid that can't be it

[PLamb]

This whole thread reminds me of that Lester Hudson thread proclaiming him the big mistake that got away after he got a little run in a gamne in which Mayo was in severe foul trouble and Sam Young was hurt and the team was getting beat

18 DNP-CDs out of 26 games with the Grizzlies says maybe that thread was premature because Hudson went off in a meaningless game once and has been about what we saw ever since

Maybe Walker going for 21 in a game where his team was once down by 49 points can be labeled as going off in a meaningless game as well and will be another premature reaction just like the thread about Hudson's game

Maybe?

[RJ87]

This whole thread reminds me of that Lester Hudson thread proclaiming him the big mistake that got away after he got a little run in a gamne in which Mayo was in severe foul trouble and Sam Young was hurt and the team was getting beat

18 DNP-CDs out of 26 games with the Grizzlies says maybe that thread was premature because Hudson went off in a meaningless game once and has been about what we saw ever since

Maybe Walker going for 21 in a game where his team was once down by 49 points can be labeled as going off in a meaningless game as well and will be another premature reaction just like the thread about Hudson's game

Maybe?

Lol funny that you mention that. Since L-Hud was sent to the d-league again this weekend, I was wondering where all of the "Lester Hudson was our savior" threads went.

[sk7326]

Every time I see a thread like this I ask the same question: name me one young player that Doc refused to play who is now making an impact on his current NBA team. The answer of course is, there are none.

Right.  I've read thought quite a few times on the board.

I wonder, though, if all the bloated, guaranteed contracts are clogging rosters and making 2nd opportunities nearly impossible?

I wonder if teams don't have their own draft picks and young players to develop, and just can't fit another on their roster?

I wonder if position is a factor?

I wonder if some teams with a roster spot would rather leave it open than pay more luxury taxes?

I wonder if teams (including the C's) would rather give a minimum deal to a veteran with some name recognition to sell tickets than to a young player, even if he has more talent?

And I say yes to all, which seems to limit the strength of that particular argument.  

I think that yes, a player needs talent, but that talent needs to be developed as well, which takes a committment from the team.  The Celtics haven't been committed to that since the Big 3 got here, and have made no secret of that fact.  It doesn't mean the players don't have the ability.

I think that's a REALLY good point.  I don't think good teams WANT first round picks and their guaranteed contracts for sure.  Second rounders are better because they offer more leverage to the team.

I've wondered - in this NBA - the way the NBDL and stuff work ... whether a supplemental draft would work in the NBA.  For instance, suppose you took every rookie who played less than 800 minutes in 2 years (40 games, 20 minutes per game ... this seems like a VERY reasonable expectation to me) and they became eligible for a second chance draft.

Then a team might draft him (like in baseball) at the cost of a 2nd rounder or something ...

Or it could be the glaringly simple explanation that after a decade of Doc coaching in the NBA, the people who he didn't play just weren't that talented

But, no that can't be it

Let's make up all these convoluted possibilities to explain away the obvious

That Doc Rivers, in a decade of coaching, has never not played a player who then went on to be successful elsewhere

Why?

Maybe because he's a [dang] good judge of young talent

But heavens to bid that can't be it

nobody is putting walker in the hall of fame - or hall of very good ... but players respond to different circumstances differently, who knows ... it is entirely possible Walker could be a good player in one place, not in another and have neither team be precisely "wrong" ...

[vinnie]

This whole thread reminds me of that Lester Hudson thread proclaiming him the big mistake that got away after he got a little run in a gamne in which Mayo was in severe foul trouble and Sam Young was hurt and the team was getting beat

18 DNP-CDs out of 26 games with the Grizzlies says maybe that thread was premature because Hudson went off in a meaningless game once and has been about what we saw ever since

Maybe Walker going for 21 in a game where his team was once down by 49 points can be labeled as going off in a meaningless game as well and will be another premature reaction just like the thread about Hudson's game

Maybe?

Lol funny that you mention that. Since L-Hud was sent to the d-league again this weekend, I was wondering where all of the "Lester Hudson was our savior" threads went.

Yes. Lester is the answer to all our problems. WHy we let him go I will never understand.

[Tai]

I'll put it this way.

Bill Walker may very well indeed be the best young guy the Celtics have let go/traded in the last three years, but does that mean he's good enough to contribute to another team?

20+ points in a blowout loss isn't done everyday, hard as it is to believe, but his defense left a lot to be desired, something Doc may have felt about him too. And he's not gonna learn it with D'Antoni if he couldn't learn it with Thibs.

Still, Walker IS on a NBA team, and he's getting consistent minutes. And...I have MSG. I'll be sure to try and see every game I can. 

[Bossco]

"Every time I see a thread like this I ask the same question: name me one young player that Doc refused to play who is now making an impact on his current NBA team. The answer of course is, there are none."

How about Ryan Gomes? He had 21 dnpcds and another 15 games of 9 min or less before injuries forced doc to start him. He wasn't even dressed most of that time. Last time I looked he is a starter in the NBA.

Leon Powe had 23 dnpcd his rookie season with 24 games of 9 min or less. In 07/08 Powe had 25 dnpcd with 18 games of 9 min or less. In the playoffs Leon had 3 dnpcds and 12 games of 9 min or less with an 8.8 mpg in the finals, even though he went 6/7 from the field and 9/13 from the line for 21 points in only 15 min. in the 2nd game.

Rajon Rondo was once in doc's dog house too. In his rookie year there was a period of 21 games from late Nov til early Jan where he only played 9 mpg and had 4 dnpcds. He finished averaging 37 mpg for the month of April. If doc is such a keen talent evaluator: why did that happen? doc chose 2 other guards over Rondo and I believe that if Danny hadn't traded the other 2 away that doc may still not have made Rondo his starting pg. I also believe that is why Danny did NOT bring in a veteran pg till the end of the season because if he had doc might have prefered to play the vet over Rondo.

By doc not playing young guys in games to see what they can do until he is forced to either by injury or trade is a major disservice to Celtics Nation.

Even if Billy Walker could only help us mostly at the offensive end at this time - isn't that enough sometimes? Haven't we had major scoring droughts repeatedly happen? Couldn't we use a jolt of offensive power with running the fast break and dunking on people - get the crowd going?

doc was here when we got our last ring. Thanks doc. It's time to move in a different direction where we play Celtics basketball again under new leadership, bringing back Celtic Pride.

[Bossco]

"Every time I see a thread like this I ask the same question: name me one young player that Doc refused to play who is now making an impact on his current NBA team. The answer of course is, there are none."

How about Ryan Gomes? He had 21 dnpcds and another 15 games of 9 min or less before injuries forced doc to start him. He wasn't even dressed most of that time. Last time I looked he is a starter in the NBA.

Leon Powe had 23 dnpcds his rookie season with 24 games of 9 min or less. In 07/08 Powe had 25 dnpcds with 18 games of 9 min or less. In the playoffs Leon had 3 dnpcds and 12 games of 9 min or less with an 8.8 mpg in the finals, even though he went 6/7 from the field and 9/13 from the line for 21 points in only 15 min. in the 2nd game.

Rajon Rondo was once in doc's dog house too. In his rookie year there was a period of 21 games from late Nov till early Jan where he only played 9 mpg and had 4 dnpcds. He finished averaging 37 mpg for the month of April. If doc is such a keen talent evaluator: why did that happen? doc chose 2 other guards over Rondo and I believe that if Danny hadn't traded the other 2 away that doc may still not have made Rondo his starting pg. I also believe that is why Danny did NOT bring in a veteran pg till the end of the championship season because if he had he was afraid that doc might have preferred to play the vet over Rondo.

By doc not playing young guys in games to see what they can do until he is forced to either by injury or trade is a major disservice to Celtics Nation.

Even if Billy Walker could only help us mostly at the offensive end at this time - isn't that enough sometimes? Haven't we had major scoring droughts repeatedly happen? Couldn't we use a jolt of offense with running the fast break and dunking on people - get the crowd going?

doc was here when we got our last ring. Thanks doc. It's time to move in a different direction where we play Celtics basketball again under new leadership, bringing back Celtic Pride.

[xmuscularghandix]

Walker can play, but what he's missing is a total grasp of the defense... therefore he didn't play. It makes to me.

That being said i own a Billy Walker C's jersey, i watched him and Beasley at KState, and i was screaming for us to draft him.


We are a defensive team and that's what comes first. I don't like the fact that Doc can't trust young players, but we are a good team and can't afford bonehead mistakes... The Knicks have boneheads running the organization so it really doesn't matter what's going on on the court.