Trades that didn't take per Hollinger

[Andy Jick]

Morey is the GM gold standard in this league.

No one else is even close.

Yup, he pwned the trade deadline.

He really set up his club to be a factor for the next few years. If Yao is close to full strength next season, they'll be a contender. Even if he's not, they'll still get a playoff birth.

but in my opinion they're still not close to contending for a title.  and last i checked, isn't that still the objective?  everybody is touting this guy like he's the next red auerbach, but i don't see it.  after having witnessed the "potential" party line around these parts (before the arrival of garnett and allen) i've had enough of that.  morey made a nice trade but is houston really going to be all that better?  not so sure...

if that is the only criteria then 25 GMs a year are incompetent ..

well, i was going to say around 20 of them.  yeah, many GM's are incompetent, and probably more than half of them reside in the Eastern Conference.  look around the league and see how many teams are floundering in mediocrity, have no real vision for what they want to achieve, and find themselves making really bad decisions.  Eleven teams are under .500 and another 6 are hovering right at that number.  Last I checked that's called "average" or "below average."  Success is measured by wins and losses, not by what happens every year on the third Thursday in February...

[PLamb]

Morey is the GM gold standard in this league.

No one else is even close.

Yup, he pwned the trade deadline.

He really set up his club to be a factor for the next few years. If Yao is close to full strength next season, they'll be a contender. Even if he's not, they'll still get a playoff birth.

but in my opinion they're still not close to contending for a title.  and last i checked, isn't that still the objective?  everybody is touting this guy like he's the next red auerbach, but i don't see it.  after having witnessed the "potential" party line around these parts (before the arrival of garnett and allen) i've had enough of that.  morey made a nice trade but is houston really going to be all that better?  not so sure...

if that is the only criteria then 25 GMs a year are incompetent ..

well, i was going to say around 20 of them.  yeah, many GM's are incompetent, and probably more than half of them reside in the Eastern Conference.  look around the league and see how many teams are floundering in mediocrity, have no real vision for what they want to achieve, and find themselves making really bad decisions.  Eleven teams are under .500 and another 6 are hovering right at that number.  Last I checked that's called "average" or "below average."  Success is measured by wins and losses, not by what happens every year on the third Thursday in February...

Last I checked in a league with 30 teams most would expect 10 or so teams to have losing records, 10 or so teams to have around .500 records and 10 or so to have winning records

That means, according to your definition 20 or so GMs are incompetent

Which of course is ridiculous

No matter how you slice it there will be a group of teams arounfd .500 and a group of teams with winning records and losing records

It can't be helped, it has to happen

Just because teams can't win every year doesn't make their management incompetent

In 1997-98, San Antonio was an awful team, the next year they won the championship

Same management team

Were they incompetent one year and have some sort of out of body management learning experience that made them great over night and won them the championship

Same thing for the 2006-07 Celtics

Same management team, next year championship

Never judge the competency of a management team on the win loss record of their team

You have to look at the whole picture

[dlpin]

I feel like I do about this explanation of cap flexibility in 2011 the same way I do about "Change I can believe in." with the Obama administration

Neither makes any sense and neither changes a thing

If we traded for Martin we would have zero salary flexibility in 2011

If we don't trade Ray for Martin and don't even resign Ray Allen, we still have zero salary flexibility in 2011 because Paul Pierce will never be renounced and his and a bunch of other cap holds still render salary flexibility in 2011 a pipe dream

The fact is that with that trade we would have an additional 20 million on the books for 11-12, when for all we know there could be a hard cap or anything else. "Cap flexibility" doesn't refer to just our ability to sign other players, but also to our ability our own free agents, including some we'd like to keep around, like Perkins.

Add to that that we would have an additional 13 million in the books in the 2012 off season when major players could be available, even under today's rule.

Martin might not be terribly overpaid, but he is overpaid nonetheless, and far from the missing link for this team's future. I'd rather suck in 11-12 and start over with cap space and a lottery pick in 12 than become a 40 win team around Rondo and Martin.

[PLamb]

I feel like I do about this explanation of cap flexibility in 2011 the same way I do about "Change I can believe in." with the Obama administration

Neither makes any sense and neither changes a thing

If we traded for Martin we would have zero salary flexibility in 2011

If we don't trade Ray for Martin and don't even resign Ray Allen, we still have zero salary flexibility in 2011 because Paul Pierce will never be renounced and his and a bunch of other cap holds still render salary flexibility in 2011 a pipe dream

The fact is that with that trade we would have an additional 20 million on the books for 11-12, when for all we know there could be a hard cap or anything else. "Cap flexibility" doesn't refer to just our ability to sign other players, but also to our ability our own free agents, including some we'd like to keep around, like Perkins.

Add to that that we would have an additional 13 million in the books in the 2012 off season when major players could be available, even under today's rule.

Martin might not be terribly overpaid, but he is overpaid nonetheless, and far from the missing link for this team's future. I'd rather suck in 11-12 and start over with cap space and a lottery pick in 12 than become a 40 win team around Rondo and Martin.

Give me ten teams that sucked that sign greta players that turned a team around in the NBA

No better yet give me 7

Can you name 7 teams in the history of the NBA that sucked that then signed a free agent and turned things around

Cap space for the sake of having the ability to lure big name free agents in the NBA is fool's gold

Just about every great team is built through trades and the draft

Trading for Martin is soooooooooooo much more of a sure thing to build a team around and upon than hoping cap flexibility will solve your problems that it's not funny

And your point about resigning you own players is ludicrous

Even under a new CBA, signing and retaining your own free agents will always be easy under any cap situation just as it is now because of Bird rights

[GranTur]

I think Danny and co. are very happy with Nate. They upgraded their biggest hole (back-up PG) for nothing.

For nothing? 

NOO I'm not saying Eddie was nothing! Just saying Nate is an upgrade at back-up PG in the trade we made straight up.

Billy and Giddens were nice but they wouldn't have seen a future with us anyway. They were good kids and I hope them the best, though.

Eternal love for Eddie too, but Nate will bring us good times.

[dlpin]

Give me ten teams that sucked that sign greta players that turned a team around in the NBA

No better yet give me 7

Can you name 7 teams in the history of the NBA that sucked that then signed a free agent and turned things around

Cap space for the sake of having the ability to lure big name free agents in the NBA is fool's gold

Just about every great team is built through trades and the draft

Trading for Martin is soooooooooooo much more of a sure thing to build a team around and upon than hoping cap flexibility will solve your problems that it's not funny

And your point about resigning you own players is ludicrous

Even under a new CBA, signing and retaining your own free agents will always be easy under any cap situation just as it is now because of Bird rights

Except that pretty much every news piece about the new CBA talks about how hard the owners will push for a hard cap.

Regarding teams that signed a top free agent to contend, here's the thing: there is no sure fire way to build a contender. Some do it through the draft, some do it through free agency. Martin would severely hurt both ways.

But if you want examples:
Arenas in Washington, Tim Hardaway in Miami, Vlade Divac in Sac, Steve Nash in Phoenix, Rashard Lewis in Orlando, Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill in Orlando, Joe Jonhson to the Hawks. Baron Davis, Blake Griffin and another free agent should be pretty good next year. Sure, some of these teams weren't THAT bad. And sure, sometimes there wasn't a marked turn around. But when that happened it was generally due to injuries.

Draft+free agent worked pretty well for the Suns and the Hawks, for example.

[Who]

Carl Landry is more valuable than the cap space Boston could have offered.  I have yet to hear a package that was more valuable than what Carly Landry + increased cap flexibility.

The Kings did, however, screw up by not making the initial trade and then doing another deal with the Knicks. It appears they made an attempt with the David Lee trade discussions but did a poor job of it.

I do agree with Hollinger that Geoff Petrie has done a poor job over the last few years (mainly the bad contracts + control of cap). He may be righting the ship this season though. At least the first steps towards that direction.

[sk7326]

Martin locked in a under 10M a year through 2013 is a pretty good deal - i mean at the end of 2013 he'd make barely half of what Ray Allen does today.  Overpaid compared to schoolteachers, underpaid compared to his production level among NBA peers. 

Management teams to me are about their ability to create a structure that perpetuates winning.  This does not mean titles - since titles involve luck and having often the best player - but the ability to stay on top or near it for a long time.  The Spurs have managed Duncan's career exquisitely and are prepared for his departure.  Danny has done a good job preparing this team for life after Garnett.  Dallas seems to have no plan whatsoever except to desperately sign old people to cash in on Dirk while he is still a great player.  Golden State seems to be planning to try to not fire Don Nelson despite him desperately wanting them to. 

Detroit's 6 straight conference finals, in this day and age is a staggering achievement - and makes Joe Dumars terrible handling of the team since all the more striking. 

With the Celtics, Danny's charge is to try to keep the team a viable contender for two more seasons - they do that, they become an attractive destination for a free agent ... because they have cap room, and they show they are a serious management.  Now the cheapness of ownership relative to the rest of the league - that is still an open question.

[Brickowski]

Once again, the bottom line, to which Hollinger seems oblivious, is that no one was taking Nocioni, particularly in this economy.  If Petrie had been willing to package Martin with Kenny Thomas (expiring) instead, he would have had plenty of takers.

[jdpapa3]

Give me ten teams that sucked that sign greta players that turned a team around in the NBA

No better yet give me 7

Can you name 7 teams in the history of the NBA that sucked that then signed a free agent and turned things around

Cap space for the sake of having the ability to lure big name free agents in the NBA is fool's gold

Just about every great team is built through trades and the draft

Trading for Martin is soooooooooooo much more of a sure thing to build a team around and upon than hoping cap flexibility will solve your problems that it's not funny

And your point about resigning you own players is ludicrous

Even under a new CBA, signing and retaining your own free agents will always be easy under any cap situation just as it is now because of Bird rights

Yea, I'm trying to come up with something and so far all I have is the Lakers with Shaq. And, I guess you could say Rashard Lewis to pair next to Dwight, but I'm sure they aren't in love with that contract right now.

Danny's basic philosophy is correct: the 3 D's: Draft, Development, Dealing.

[BballTim]

Martin locked in a under 10M a year through 2013 is a pretty good deal - i mean at the end of 2013 he'd make barely half of what Ray Allen does today.  Overpaid compared to schoolteachers, underpaid compared to his production level among NBA peers. 

  I think he's paid close to where he should be. He's a nice piece but he's not really a franchise player. I don't know that he's a "best player on a good team" type of player.

[Fafnir]

Martin locked in a under 10M a year through 2013 is a pretty good deal - i mean at the end of 2013 he'd make barely half of what Ray Allen does today.  Overpaid compared to schoolteachers, underpaid compared to his production level among NBA peers. 

  I think he's paid close to where he should be. He's a nice piece but he's not really a franchise player. I don't know that he's a "best player on a good team" type of player.

The Rockets need Yao to be their best player.

If he can't be then they'll have to rebuild, but its better to have Martin and those draft picks so you have options to try and rebuild.

[the_Bird]

I'll keep saying it, the C's are preparing for a massive rebuild in the summer of 2012.  Making a trade for Martin would mean that probably could happen; you'd have Martin, Rondo, and likely Pierce and Perk all on the books for ~$10M - $12M per that year, plus cap holds.  I'm thinking Danny decided that Martin wasn't quite good enough to be the team's centerpiece for the next decade, so he held off so he could maybe do something big in 2012.

EDIT: It could well be that management decided Nooch's contract was too unfavorable to take on Martin.  Assuming Andreas was only going to play a minor role for the C's, it would have basically been equivalent to paying $15M - $16M per season for Martin's services.  It may have been as simple as deciding that was too much to pay for a guy that's not even necessarily an All Star, and it probably didn't make any sense for Sac-town to deal with us unless we took on Nooch's deal. 

[sk7326]

Once again, the bottom line, to which Hollinger seems oblivious, is that no one was taking Nocioni, particularly in this economy.  If Petrie had been willing to package Martin with Kenny Thomas (expiring) instead, he would have had plenty of takers.

They DID package Martin with Thomas ... and the Rockets took him QED ...

But Carl Landry + Control > Ray Allen + Zippo ... or for that matter Ray Allen + a late 1st ...  so Nocioni coming back made some sense there

Either way Ainge was smart not doing something rash - although this deal was not without merit ... i'll leave defending the owners right to act like donald sterling to other people

[sk7326]

Martin locked in a under 10M a year through 2013 is a pretty good deal - i mean at the end of 2013 he'd make barely half of what Ray Allen does today.  Overpaid compared to schoolteachers, underpaid compared to his production level among NBA peers. 

  I think he's paid close to where he should be. He's a nice piece but he's not really a franchise player. I don't know that he's a "best player on a good team" type of player.

He would have been the 2nd best player on a Rondo let team - he can be a leading scorer on a decent team because of his shooting efficiency.  He is not using possessions at a Monta Ellis level pace or anything ...