We have not developed value in Walker and Giddens.

[FatjohnReturns]

Just give the guy a chance. How could it be worse than the last 3 weeks?

[PLamb]

How can you tell? They never play. Doc only put them in for like 2 minutes at the end of quaters.  When they do get time they are so scared to screw up that they are ineffictive.

All that matters is that Danny and Doc can tell because they see them all the time

Also, there's a reason teams are trying to trade for Hickson

It's because he was a top 20 pick in the draft, highly regarded out of college, have seen him excel in Summer League, and have reviewed video of his development in game situations over the last two years

Scouts and GMs are seeing he is a very talented young man

Neither Walker nor Giddens were highly regarded out college
Neither has excelled in the Summer league
Neither has been dominant in the NBDL
Neither has been good enough to crack a rotation
And neither has any video anywhere of them in NBA game situations showing that the get it at this level

Teams aren't bowling themselves over trying to make calls about Giddens and Walker because THEY have determined these players suck and the Celtics management made a mistake in choosing them

The Celtics can't develop them because they aren't good enough to develop

The Celtics(Danny, Doc) did however develop Rondo, Perk, Davis, Powe, West, Gomes, and Jefferson

Why

Because they had something to be developed and Walker and Giddens don't

Want to blast someone, blast Danny for choosing these players instead of Chris Douglas Roberts or Mario Chalmers or Luc Mbah a Moute or Goran Dragic or Nikola Pekovic or Kyle Weaver or DeAndre Jordan

But don't blame Doc and Danny for not developing NBA talent that wasn't NBA talent to begin with

Blame Danny for misjudging that these guys talents were better than players they could have chosen instead

[jpd985]

When healthy no matter who we drafted would not be playing much at all. When the injuries racked up I would have had no problem playing them a few minutes a game to save the legs of the vets. Currently, I don't believe Giddens and Walker should be playing over Marquis and TA.

[Tai]

This is ridiculous.

I'm telling you, Hickson doesn't have any more value than Walker and Giddens. He just benefits from playing with LeBron, which gives him open looks and easy dunks or layups.

If the Suns really consider Hickson as a "talent" and a "good prospect", Kerr should be fired immediately. The guy benefits from wide open looks and plays 20 minutes a game, while not having special abilities or all-star potential. Ridiculously overrated.

Berating other players on other teams just to justify Walker or Giddens is clownish. Period. It doesn't tell me anything about Walker and Giddens. AT ALL.

Seriously....this tactic almost admits you don't see anything in Walker and Giddens, cause it's implying that you have to talk down players on other teams who are doing well in order to make it look like Walker and Giddens are no different from them, when that's further from the truth than Cali to NY.

[rondohondo]

I agree , Doc should have been playing Walker at least 10 mins a game. We all know what TA is ( a bench player , 8th or 9th man. Doc is playing Ray 40 MINS A NIGHT in half the games.

Playing Walker 10-15 mins a game does these things.

- Gives PP and Ray rest
- Gives Rondo another guy to run the floor and finish
- Gives us a young prospect teams might want in a trade


And don't tell me that they suck, Doc never plays young players unless he is forced to. Walker has proven he can score in the D league. I know its not NBA talent, but Walker would be playing against other teams 2nd unit players.

Doc play Walker,and I'm not talking about 5 mins every 5 games.

I guess he didn't play Pruitt cause he hates young guys. Where is he now, again?

Hudson's not really getting the consistent time in Memphis that you'd like, either, if "5 min every 5 games" isn't good enough for you.

Also, I'll tell you Walker doesn't suck as long as you don't tell me that what he did in D-League means anything. It's one thing to score in D-League, but can he score the way in D-League the way he would have to in the NBA to be effective?

And I know you're not implying that Walker is playing "2nd unit players" in D-League starters. I'm not trying to berate Walker for the sake of it, but come on, you're telling me just as little as you'd think Doc would say about Walker when asked. Additionally, even without Ray Allen, only Paul Pierce had 30+ min against New Orleans (34). That was with 10 guys, not even including Shelden, and all without Walker. We don't need Walker just to keep starters' minutes down when healthy, either.

Of course Pruitt and Hudson didn't play, Rondo is a 24 yr old stud at the PG position who can effectively play 40 mins a night.

Walker is backing up a 35 yr old SG and a baanged up PP. We have been sucking since december anyways, its not like playing walker 10 mins a game is going to make us much worse.

Ray and PP are old and we know what TA is.

It's not going to happen now though because Daniels is back, but Doc should have given him some mins against atlanta and other athletic teams.

[Donoghus]

How can you tell? They never play. Doc only put them in for like 2 minutes at the end of quaters.  When they do get time they are so scared to screw up that they are ineffictive.

All that matters is that Danny and Doc can tell because they see them all the time

Also, there's a reason teams are trying to trade for Hickson

It's because he was a top 20 pick in the draft, highly regarded out of college, have seen him excel in Summer League, and have reviewed video of his development in game situations over the last two years

Scouts and GMs are seeing he is a very talented young man

Neither Walker nor Giddens were highly regarded out college
Neither has excelled in the Summer league
Neither has been dominant in the NBDL
Neither has been good enough to crack a rotation
And neither has any video anywhere of them in NBA game situations showing that the get it at this level

Teams aren't bowling themselves over trying to make calls about Giddens and Walker because THEY have determined these players suck and the Celtics management made a mistake in choosing them

The Celtics can't develop them because they aren't good enough to develop

The Celtics(Danny, Doc) did however develop Rondo, Perk, Davis, Powe, West, Gomes, and Jefferson

Why

Because they had something to be developed and Walker and Giddens don't

Want to blast someone, blast Danny for choosing these players instead of Chris Douglas Roberts or Mario Chalmers or Luc Mbah a Moute or Goran Dragic or Nikola Pekovic or Kyle Weaver or DeAndre Jordan

But don't blame Doc and Danny for not developing NBA talent that wasn't NBA talent to begin with

Blame Danny for misjudging that these guys talents were better than players they could have chosen instead

Nailed it.

[Tai]

I agree , Doc should have been playing Walker at least 10 mins a game. We all know what TA is ( a bench player , 8th or 9th man. Doc is playing Ray 40 MINS A NIGHT in half the games.

Playing Walker 10-15 mins a game does these things.

- Gives PP and Ray rest
- Gives Rondo another guy to run the floor and finish
- Gives us a young prospect teams might want in a trade


And don't tell me that they suck, Doc never plays young players unless he is forced to. Walker has proven he can score in the D league. I know its not NBA talent, but Walker would be playing against other teams 2nd unit players.

Doc play Walker,and I'm not talking about 5 mins every 5 games.

I guess he didn't play Pruitt cause he hates young guys. Where is he now, again?

Hudson's not really getting the consistent time in Memphis that you'd like, either, if "5 min every 5 games" isn't good enough for you.

Also, I'll tell you Walker doesn't suck as long as you don't tell me that what he did in D-League means anything. It's one thing to score in D-League, but can he score the way in D-League the way he would have to in the NBA to be effective?

And I know you're not implying that Walker is playing "2nd unit players" in D-League starters. I'm not trying to berate Walker for the sake of it, but come on, you're telling me just as little as you'd think Doc would say about Walker when asked. Additionally, even without Ray Allen, only Paul Pierce had 30+ min against New Orleans (34). That was with 10 guys, not even including Shelden, and all without Walker. We don't need Walker just to keep starters' minutes down when healthy, either.

Of course Pruitt and Hudson didn't play, Rondo is a 24 yr old stud at the PG position who can effectively play 40 mins a night.

Walker is backing up a 35 yr old SG and a baanged up PP. We have been sucking since december anyways, its not like playing walker 10 mins a game is going to make us much worse.

Ray and PP are old and what know what TA is.

It's not going to happen now though because Daniels is back, but Doc should have given him some mins against atlanta and other athletic teams.

So...where is Pruitt again? Actually, Pruitt did play a little last year. Even Walker did a little.

Hudson can barely get rotational minutes on a team that probably needs him more than we did. Hopefully they increase towards the end of the year.

Bottom line, Doc clearly has no faith in Walker. Oh well.  

[ssspence]

This is ridiculous.

I'm telling you, Hickson doesn't have any more value than Walker and Giddens. He just benefits from playing with LeBron, which gives him open looks and easy dunks or layups.

If the Suns really consider Hickson as a "talent" and a "good prospect", Kerr should be fired immediately. The guy benefits from wide open looks and plays 20 minutes a game, while not having special abilities or all-star potential. Ridiculously overrated.

This is a major reach. Hickson has played far better in the NBA than either Walker (due in large part to injury) and Giddens (due to the fact that he's terrible). He's a better prospect than any young player on this Cs outside Rondo or Perk. 

[jpd985]

This is ridiculous.

I'm telling you, Hickson doesn't have any more value than Walker and Giddens. He just benefits from playing with LeBron, which gives him open looks and easy dunks or layups.

If the Suns really consider Hickson as a "talent" and a "good prospect", Kerr should be fired immediately. The guy benefits from wide open looks and plays 20 minutes a game, while not having special abilities or all-star potential. Ridiculously overrated.

This is a major reach. Hickson has played far better in the NBA than either Walker (due in large part to injury) and Giddens (due to the fact that he's terrible). He's a better prospect than any young player on this Cs outside Rondo or Perk. 

I wouldn't say Giddens is terrible. I believe he could be a decent bench player. However, he needs PT and here isn't the place for it. If I remember right Danny didn't want to use the pick and tried very hard to trade it.

[Chief]

I remember Walker being highly regarded after high school. Maybe # 2 in the nation after OJ Mayo. At Kansas State, he was a big star but had serious knee problems. Most thought he was a lottery pick, talent wise, but nervous about a guy that had just had his third knee injury during pre draft workouts.

Walker has always shown, to me, that he has NBA talent. Reminds me of Gerald Wallace in Sacramento. The guy could not get any run on a championship caliber team. Sacramento thought so little of him, they made him available to the Bobcats in the expansion draft. I bet they regret that move now.

[Who]

JJ Hickson has played at a comparable level to Glen Davis only he's younger + a much better athlete + was considered raw with a lot of potential to improve when drafted.

That is why Hickson has good trade value.

[BballTim]

Its mismanagement plain and simple. We are super banged up and you cant cut 10 mpg for one or the other.(Walker or Giddens).  Washington also wanted Hickson for any Jamison trade. So its not just Cleveland. They have given the guy a chance to make mistakes and grow. Now they can cash him in. Our young guns never get a chance and their confidence level shows that when they do come in for 2 minutes at the end of a quater.

  Almost all of the games we've had over the last 6-7 weeks have been close. You can't just take 10 minutes from Pierce and Allen and give them to Walker and Giddens in close games.

[PLamb]

These assertions that playing time develops players are just wrong

Teaching and practice develops players, not playing time

Giddens and Walker will not get better with playing time, they will only get exposed

Young players have to earn playing time not be given it to develop

I keep reading this notion that if only Walker or Giddens got playing time then they would develop

That is patently WRONG on EVERY level

Game playing time does not develop players that aren't good enough to earn the playing time on their own, and obviously neither has if Scal and Tony are being trotted out in front of them all the time

[Chief]

These assertions that playing time develops players are just wrong

Teaching and practice develops players, not playing time

Giddens and Walker will not get better with playing time, they will only get exposed

Young players have to earn playing time not be given it to develop

I keep reading this notion that if only Walker or Giddens got playing time then they would develop

That is patently WRONG on EVERY level

Game playing time does not develop players that aren't good enough to earn the playing time on their own, and obviously neither has if Scal and Tony are being trotted out in front of them all the time

Consistent playing time develops confidence.

[fanofgreen]

Last time I checked, Bill Walker plays the small forward spot........JR plays the shooting guard spot......and JJ Hickson the power forward spot:

Bill Walker....SF...Boston Celtics - playing behind Marquis Daniels+Paul Pierce = garbage time

JR Giddens...SG..Boston Celtics - playing behind Tony Allen+Eddie House+Ray Allen= no time

JJ Hickson....PF..Cleveland Cavaliers - playing behind Anderson Varejao = plenty of time