We have not developed value in Walker and Giddens.

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It doesn't matter whether they're good or not, there's little chance they would be better than the guys ahead of them.  I don't really care how good they are; it is irrelevant.  They're not cracking our rotation.

It does matter that other teams think they've got upside so we can use them to "sweeten" trades.  I want other teams to want them, even if we don't.  Other teams have to see them play for that to happen.

I saw Popovich draw up 7 plays for Matt Bonner to get dunks in a preseason game in Manchester.  Now Matt isn't exactly a star...but he sure as heck looked like one for 5 minutes that day.  He dominated, actually.  It was odd.

Could Doc draw up a few plays for the kids to look good for 5 minutes on a relatively consistent basis (like, against sub-500 teams)?  Of course he could, and next to our starters, either kid would look like an all-star, too.
 
Could that great defense of ours, with Perk and KG guarding the rim, cover for the inevitable few mistakes?  Probably.

They may or may not be good prospects, but we could at least show something besides their contract to teams wanting SOMETHING from their salary dump, fool's gold though it may be.

Could they have cracked the rotation?  They might well have potential, but they're not getting their break on this squad, and we haven't showcased them for anyone else, either.

This is ..........I don't know........weird, to say the least

You want this team, who's goal it is to win games to spend valuable practice time and coach's time drawing up and practicing plays drawn up specifically for the 14th and 15th players on our bench

You then want the team to instill these players in meaningful games in meaningful minutes to perform these plays for the sole purpose of trying to fool other GMs and scouts into believing these players are better than they are just so if we ever have to trade them they are more valuable than if they just tried to develop them properly

This one is out there, man

I've heard some stuff before but this one is way way out there

Yeah, maybe.  If we didn't need to improve our rotation, it wouldn't matter-they'd just be practice bodies.  Why bother.

The Evil Phil Jackson is pretty good at this-putting young late-round picks on the court in a very limited role for short minutes in the 1st half early in the season (whew).  The play is usually the "stand in a corner and wait for a dish to shoot a corner-3", which happens to be the easiest 3-ball on the floor, but it usually builds from there...maybe because players play harder and learn more from you when you show them that they matter.  Maybe he can get away with it because his offense is simpler, I have no idea.

But I do know that nobody else will want them if they don't ever see them play, and teams want some hope for the future if they're dumping a star now.  They'd make mistakes if they were just throw out there, so perhaps Doc could have earned his money and drawn up a couple of plays.  It's not like he's been working the rest of the team that hard...

[Tai]

It doesn't matter whether they're good or not, there's little chance they would be better than the guys ahead of them.  I don't really care how good they are; it is irrelevant.  They're not cracking our rotation.

It does matter that other teams think they've got upside so we can use them to "sweeten" trades.  I want other teams to want them, even if we don't.  Other teams have to see them play for that to happen.

I saw Popovich draw up 7 plays for Matt Bonner to get dunks in a preseason game in Manchester.  Now Matt isn't exactly a star...but he sure as heck looked like one for 5 minutes that day.  He dominated, actually.  It was odd.

Could Doc draw up a few plays for the kids to look good for 5 minutes on a relatively consistent basis (like, against sub-500 teams)?  Of course he could, and next to our starters, either kid would look like an all-star, too.
 
Could that great defense of ours, with Perk and KG guarding the rim, cover for the inevitable few mistakes?  Probably.

They may or may not be good prospects, but we could at least show something besides their contract to teams wanting SOMETHING from their salary dump, fool's gold though it may be.

Could they have cracked the rotation?  They might well have potential, but they're not getting their break on this squad, and we haven't showcased them for anyone else, either.

This is ..........I don't know........weird, to say the least

You want this team, who's goal it is to win games to spend valuable practice time and coach's time drawing up and practicing plays drawn up specifically for the 14th and 15th players on our bench

You then want the team to instill these players in meaningful games in meaningful minutes to perform these plays for the sole purpose of trying to fool other GMs and scouts into believing these players are better than they are just so if we ever have to trade them they are more valuable than if they just tried to develop them properly

This one is out there, man

I've heard some stuff before but this one is way way out there

Yeah, maybe.  If we didn't need to improve our rotation, it wouldn't matter-they'd just be practice bodies.  Why bother.

The Evil Phil Jackson is pretty good at this-putting young late-round picks on the court in a very limited role for short minutes in the 1st half early in the season (whew).  The play is usually the "stand in a corner and wait for a dish to shoot a corner-3", which happens to be the easiest 3-ball on the floor, but it usually builds from there...maybe because players play harder and learn more from you when you show them that they matter.  Maybe he can get away with it because his offense is simpler, I have no idea.

But I do know that nobody else will want them if they don't ever see them play, and teams want some hope for the future if they're dumping a star now.  They'd make mistakes if they were just throw out there, so perhaps Doc could have earned his money and drawn up a couple of plays.  It's not like he's been working the rest of the team that hard...

Firstly, who are you referring to when you say Phil Jackson puts in this or that player for a set play in the corners of the court? Shannon Brown?

Secondly, stop comparing Walker and Giddens to players clearly much better than them, thinking that they'll get it just because you give them court time. They have all practice and every warm up to prove they deserve court time, it's that simple. Seriously, this isn't pee-wee.

Thirdly, as far as the Lakers and Phil doing what you claim he does, you do realize that...*ahem*... Gabe Pruitt is on the LAKERS D-League squad, right?! Just a hunch, but if he had any worth, we'd see him on the 15-man roster for the Lakers right now. I mean, clearly Phil the HoF coach can get something out of all-talented Gabe Pruitt, no?  They only have 13 guys on their roster you know; there's more than enough room for Pruitt and to have him not even shoot from the corners, but to pass to guys in the corners. Here's a link in case you want his thoughts on being in the D-League. http://www.nesn.com/2010/01/gabe-pruitt-former-celtics-pick-signs-with-los-angeles-dfenders.html

I rest my case.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

That is one point i have been saying all along, thank you for posting it. At the very least, when you play the young guys, you can play them in the early season months, sept, oct, nov, that way, if you lose games because of it, so what, better to lose then..then later when your starters are tired and or hurt..! Also, the rest of the league gets to see the rookies, so if you do not want them, at least the other teams get to see them, as players, not as bench sitters, now you have more trade bait...more to package,...! Another coaching / management failure, and no, i did not wait till the losing streak to dislike doc's style....he was always the same to me.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

one more thing for you "Doc sees them in practice" Guys....Let me tell you about practice, practice is for learning plays and rotations, it has nothing to do with game time. Playing in a game is 100% different, you could be a star in practice......people need real game time to get NBA level confidence, once you help them get that, then you see what you really have, as in leon powe......it took doc almost 2 years to play that man......what was he waiting on...? Enter sheldon williams, scal starts, not sheldon...what did you get out of him...ever...nothing, so what did doc see in him in practice..? Yea right.....if you think practice is anywhere near game style, you haven't ever played real time...

[wdleehi]

Both will be lucky to be in the NBA in two years.



Name one player that didn't earn play time under Doc that is playing a meaningful role in the NBA right now? 



Does it take Doc time to get young players on the court?  In most cases, yes. 


Have JR and Walker have those opportunities the successful late picks have?  Yes.

Did they take advantage of those opportunities?  Nope. 

[wdleehi]

one more thing for you "Doc sees them in practice" Guys....Let me tell you about practice, practice is for learning plays and rotations, it has nothing to do with game time. Playing in a game is 100% different, you could be a star in practice......people need real game time to get NBA level confidence, once you help them get that, then you see what you really have, as in leon powe......it took doc almost 2 years to play that man......what was he waiting on...? Enter sheldon williams, scal starts, not sheldon...what did you get out of him...ever...nothing, so what did doc see in him in practice..? Yea right.....if you think practice is anywhere near game style, you haven't ever played real time...

Scali has proven himself in the NBA.  He may just be a 12th man, but he is a proven 12th man that has stepped in when needed and provided what he needed to provide for the team to be successful.  Just look at the teams record with him starting in the past three seasons. 

[Meadowlark_Scal]

one more thing for you "Doc sees them in practice" Guys....Let me tell you about practice, practice is for learning plays and rotations, it has nothing to do with game time. Playing in a game is 100% different, you could be a star in practice......people need real game time to get NBA level confidence, once you help them get that, then you see what you really have, as in leon powe......it took doc almost 2 years to play that man......what was he waiting on...? Enter sheldon williams, scal starts, not sheldon...what did you get out of him...ever...nothing, so what did doc see in him in practice..? Yea right.....if you think practice is anywhere near game style, you haven't ever played real time...

Scali has proven himself in the NBA.  He may just be a 12th man, but he is a proven 12th man that has stepped in when needed and provided what he needed to provide for the team to be successful.  Just look at the teams record with him starting in the past three seasons. 

Oh please stop with the "scal is good" stuff, ever hear of the  kings clothes story...? Ever see anyone cover scal in the corner, no...they don't, you might respect him, but the rest of the league do not. Is he ever mentioned in trades, no, why is that. He is the 6th highest paid player on the c's....it was a flat out mistake, we got took, and that is that. look at his stats, tell me how he does things no one sees, the intagibles, off the ball, ya right, one minute you guys are all about stats, the next, you go to the mystery help......as if you would ever put scal on your team by choice.....i would always play sheldon over him, sheldon rebounds, rondo developed his shot this year, how did scal improve himself over time here...? shot sucks, no post up, no rebounds...what??? give the scasl thing a rest.....i don't hate him, i never met him, he just doesn't belong out there ahead of a contributer who needs some prime time playing. Scal strating....my god, you are kidding to incite more reaction, right..?

[sk7326]

one more thing for you "Doc sees them in practice" Guys....Let me tell you about practice, practice is for learning plays and rotations, it has nothing to do with game time. Playing in a game is 100% different, you could be a star in practice......people need real game time to get NBA level confidence, once you help them get that, then you see what you really have, as in leon powe......it took doc almost 2 years to play that man......what was he waiting on...? Enter sheldon williams, scal starts, not sheldon...what did you get out of him...ever...nothing, so what did doc see in him in practice..? Yea right.....if you think practice is anywhere near game style, you haven't ever played real time...

Scali has proven himself in the NBA.  He may just be a 12th man, but he is a proven 12th man that has stepped in when needed and provided what he needed to provide for the team to be successful.  Just look at the teams record with him starting in the past three seasons. 

Oh please stop with the "scal is good" stuff, ever hear of the  kings clothes story...? Ever see anyone cover scal in the corner, no...they don't, you might respect him, but the rest of the league do not. Is he ever mentioned in trades, no, why is that. He is the 6th highest paid player on the c's....it was a flat out mistake, we got took, and that is that. look at his stats, tell me how he does things no one sees, the intagibles, off the ball, ya right, one minute you guys are all about stats, the next, you go to the mystery help......as if you would ever put scal on your team by choice.....i would always play sheldon over him, sheldon rebounds, rondo developed his shot this year, how did scal improve himself over time here...? shot sucks, no post up, no rebounds...what??? give the scasl thing a rest.....i don't hate him, i never met him, he just doesn't belong out there ahead of a contributer who needs some prime time playing. Scal strating....my god, you are kidding to incite more reaction, right..?

Scal is pretty good for a 10th man - plays good team defense, makes hustle plays, does not make mistakes.  Sheldon has not developed much since his drafting, he can rebound some, but his hands are impossibly bad and he has a tendency to shoot mid range jumpers he cannot make. 

He will be an attractive chip because of the expiring deal - but the Celtics have to add some talent into the soup. 

As far as Giddens and Walker - if they could play, they would.  Giddens being an old rookie, probably his potential just is not there.  Walker might get better ...

What is funny is how Doc was ripped for his arbitrary rotations when he had no players -and now he is being ripped for the opposite.

[wdleehi]

one more thing for you "Doc sees them in practice" Guys....Let me tell you about practice, practice is for learning plays and rotations, it has nothing to do with game time. Playing in a game is 100% different, you could be a star in practice......people need real game time to get NBA level confidence, once you help them get that, then you see what you really have, as in leon powe......it took doc almost 2 years to play that man......what was he waiting on...? Enter sheldon williams, scal starts, not sheldon...what did you get out of him...ever...nothing, so what did doc see in him in practice..? Yea right.....if you think practice is anywhere near game style, you haven't ever played real time...

Scali has proven himself in the NBA.  He may just be a 12th man, but he is a proven 12th man that has stepped in when needed and provided what he needed to provide for the team to be successful.  Just look at the teams record with him starting in the past three seasons. 

Oh please stop with the "scal is good" stuff, ever hear of the  kings clothes story...? Ever see anyone cover scal in the corner, no...they don't, you might respect him, but the rest of the league do not. Is he ever mentioned in trades, no, why is that. He is the 6th highest paid player on the c's....it was a flat out mistake, we got took, and that is that. look at his stats, tell me how he does things no one sees, the intagibles, off the ball, ya right, one minute you guys are all about stats, the next, you go to the mystery help......as if you would ever put scal on your team by choice.....i would always play sheldon over him, sheldon rebounds, rondo developed his shot this year, how did scal improve himself over time here...? shot sucks, no post up, no rebounds...what??? give the scasl thing a rest.....i don't hate him, i never met him, he just doesn't belong out there ahead of a contributer who needs some prime time playing. Scal strating....my god, you are kidding to incite more reaction, right..?

Sure he makes to much money.


But he is a true NBA 12th man.  And, the team has a great record when he starts for KG or Perk. 


He is an NBA player.  Walker and JR, likely not so.  They look to be the roster filler. 

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I can't believe Scal has been here all these years and still doesn't know where the weight room is.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Well, right, a 12th man, i can't argue that....but that is different line than playing guys to showcase them early in the season for trade bait at least....scal could practice his shot more......there is no reason not to play sheldon, ...only in my opinion, because, he is the only one that will be there when the shot is up, lately, the rest of the team are heading back for D...no help.....rasheed has more 3 attempts than rebounds. Sheldons hands are more no playing time jitters than anything else..anyone who loves to rebound has good hands, that is how you get it in the first place...besides, if he passes it off badly, it was a rebound, not a point.....rebounders cause the other team to get in foul trouble.....i also feel that doc has us in the exact place we were this time last year...

[Meadowlark_Scal]

didn't mean to get so fired up before...nothing personal....also, a C's problem is, the only rebounders we have are rondo and TA...that is wrong. Practice time will not develop a player, only real time will, and the coaches confidence. Even scal, with all his time...looks a little better....!

[Chief]

one more thing for you "Doc sees them in practice" Guys....Let me tell you about practice, practice is for learning plays and rotations, it has nothing to do with game time. Playing in a game is 100% different, you could be a star in practice......people need real game time to get NBA level confidence, once you help them get that, then you see what you really have, as in leon powe......it took doc almost 2 years to play that man......what was he waiting on...? Enter sheldon williams, scal starts, not sheldon...what did you get out of him...ever...nothing, so what did doc see in him in practice..? Yea right.....if you think practice is anywhere near game style, you haven't ever played real time...

Scali has proven himself in the NBA.  He may just be a 12th man, but he is a proven 12th man that has stepped in when needed and provided what he needed to provide for the team to be successful.  Just look at the teams record with him starting in the past three seasons. 

Oh please stop with the "scal is good" stuff, ever hear of the  kings clothes story...? Ever see anyone cover scal in the corner, no...they don't, you might respect him, but the rest of the league do not. Is he ever mentioned in trades, no, why is that. He is the 6th highest paid player on the c's....it was a flat out mistake, we got took, and that is that. look at his stats, tell me how he does things no one sees, the intagibles, off the ball, ya right, one minute you guys are all about stats, the next, you go to the mystery help......as if you would ever put scal on your team by choice.....i would always play sheldon over him, sheldon rebounds, rondo developed his shot this year, how did scal improve himself over time here...? shot sucks, no post up, no rebounds...what??? give the scasl thing a rest.....i don't hate him, i never met him, he just doesn't belong out there ahead of a contributer who needs some prime time playing. Scal strating....my god, you are kidding to incite more reaction, right..?

Sure he makes to much money.


But he is a true NBA 12th man.  And, the team has a great record when he starts for KG or Perk. 


He is an NBA player.  Walker and JR, likely not so.  They look to be the roster filler. 

The C's are 1-0 when Giddens starts.

[housecall]

Both will be lucky to be in the NBA in two years.



Name one player that didn't earn play time under Doc that is playing a meaningful role in the NBA right now? 



Does it take Doc time to get young players on the court?  In most cases, yes. 


Have JR and Walker have those opportunities the successful late picks have?  Yes.

Did they take advantage of those opportunities?  Nope. 

I know this is a little off topic but you hit on a subject i was listening to on the tube an xgm and retired player comments about players today.They both agreed that theres a big percentage of players today wouldn't have been able to crack an NBA roster in the 70's and 80's.I feel the same way and feel thats some of the reason the product has taken a turn for the worst,but approx.how many do you feel is on each team is not NBA worthy or ready today?I say on 30 teams there's probably 2-3players who shouldn't be in the NBA. 

[wdleehi]

Both will be lucky to be in the NBA in two years.



Name one player that didn't earn play time under Doc that is playing a meaningful role in the NBA right now? 



Does it take Doc time to get young players on the court?  In most cases, yes. 


Have JR and Walker have those opportunities the successful late picks have?  Yes.

Did they take advantage of those opportunities?  Nope. 

I know this is a little off topic but you hit on a subject i was listening to on the tube an xgm and retired player comments about players today.They both agreed that theres a big percentage of players today wouldn't have been able to crack an NBA roster in the 70's and 80's.I feel the same way and feel thats some of the reason the product has taken a turn for the worst,but approx.how many do you feel is on each team is not NBA worthy or ready today?I say on 30 teams there's probably 2-3players who shouldn't be in the NBA. 

I agree.


There could be guys that could be built up to that level if there was a good minor system in place that actually trained these guys.