Stoudemire close to being a Cavalier!!

[MMacOH]

Want a Cavs fan's perspective on this?

Amare running the pick and roll with Lebron would be an excellent weapon for the Cavs.  Think about what has made Hickson succesful this year.  Hickson gets his opportunities because teams sag off of him and make him beat them.  This is why he gets so many lane cuts and dunks.  Do you think teams will allow Amare that freedom? 

The Cavs are more efficient with Andy because he is a better finisher than Hickson.  Amare is a much better finisher than Varejao. 

Amare also adds a young all-star to pariw tih Lebron in the years going forward.  That is a major part of this deal as well.

As for defense, Brown coaches a system that has made Shaq look like a great defender this year.  I think Amare will fit right into this.

My main concern is Amare's health and contract status. I don't think his on court play will be an issue

[sk7326]

If Amare comes - Shaq might get dealt.  There are a lot of options for Cleveland to move Shaq.  Amare and Shaq stunk out loud playing together a year ago.  Amare is soft - Shaq has never been soft - and obsessed with his own numbers.  Him in Cleveland is a lateral move from what the Cavs have now. 

[MMacOH]

If Amare comes - Shaq might get dealt.  There are a lot of options for Cleveland to move Shaq.  Amare and Shaq stunk out loud playing together a year ago.  Amare is soft - Shaq has never been soft - and obsessed with his own numbers.  Him in Cleveland is a lateral move from what the Cavs have now. 

Shaq has already addressed this.  He has no desire to be 'the man' in Cleveland so he and Amare won't need to be fighting over shots in CLE. 

Anyone who thinks Amare would be a lateral move is being blinded by their Celtic love (which isn't a bad thing since you are Celtic fans)

[Jon]

If Amare comes - Shaq might get dealt.  There are a lot of options for Cleveland to move Shaq.  Amare and Shaq stunk out loud playing together a year ago.  Amare is soft - Shaq has never been soft - and obsessed with his own numbers.  Him in Cleveland is a lateral move from what the Cavs have now. 

Shaq has already addressed this.  He has no desire to be 'the man' in Cleveland so he and Amare won't need to be fighting over shots in CLE. 

Anyone who thinks Amare would be a lateral move is being blinded by their Celtic love (which isn't a bad thing since you are Celtic fans)

I'm not saying it won't work out.  However, I will agree with those who have some skepticism.  Unfortunately, big dunks and flashy plays get you big headlines and thus league wide respect.  But for a big man of his apparent stature, he plays horrid defense, doesn't rebound well, has been the beneficiary of Steve Nash's passes, and has done very, very little as far as winning on some very good teams (the fact he made it to the WCF a few years ago should be surprising in the fact that it isn't the norm, in comparison to PP, KG, and Ray's sole appearances where we should all be surprised that they made it that far at all with their horrid surrounding casts). 

Might he change on Cleveland?  Sure.  But I wouldn't necessarily count on in it given his contract status.  Also, I wouldn't put aside the fact that the Amare/Shaq combination with a pretty good backcourt of Steve Nash, Jason Richardson, and Grant Hill couldn't even make the playoffs last year.  I don't know why putting that duo with LeBron, Parker, and Williams (who can't even make the Finals) is a guarantee of a championship. 

[MMacOH]

If Amare comes - Shaq might get dealt.  There are a lot of options for Cleveland to move Shaq.  Amare and Shaq stunk out loud playing together a year ago.  Amare is soft - Shaq has never been soft - and obsessed with his own numbers.  Him in Cleveland is a lateral move from what the Cavs have now. 

Shaq has already addressed this.  He has no desire to be 'the man' in Cleveland so he and Amare won't need to be fighting over shots in CLE. 

Anyone who thinks Amare would be a lateral move is being blinded by their Celtic love (which isn't a bad thing since you are Celtic fans)

I'm not saying it won't work out.  However, I will agree with those who have some skepticism.  Unfortunately, big dunks and flashy plays get you big headlines and thus league wide respect.  But for a big man of his apparent stature, he plays horrid defense, doesn't rebound well, has been the beneficiary of Steve Nash's passes, and has done very, very little as far as winning on some very good teams (the fact he made it to the WCF a few years ago should be surprising in the fact that it isn't the norm, in comparison to PP, KG, and Ray's sole appearances where we should all be surprised that they made it that far at all with their horrid surrounding casts). 

Might he change on Cleveland?  Sure.  But I wouldn't necessarily count on in it given his contract status.  Also, I wouldn't put aside the fact that the Amare/Shaq combination with a pretty good backcourt of Steve Nash, Jason Richardson, and Grant Hill couldn't even make the playoffs last year.  I don't know why putting that duo with LeBron, Parker, and Williams (who can't even make the Finals) is a guarantee of a championship. 

I am missing the logic of your last sentence.  This is the first year Parker has been on the Cavs.  Of course they haven't made the finals.  Are you saying Lebron and Mo couldn't make the finals? 

Either way, a starting lineup of Mo, Parker, Lebron, Amare and Shaq with Delonte, Gibson, Moon, Z (he would be bought out by PHX), AV and Leon Powe coming off the bench is completely different than relying on Wally World, Ben Wallace and Darnell Jackson of your bench.

You can't compare last year to this year, and it is an entire team that wins a championship, not just a couple of players.   

[LarBrd33]

Looks like the Cavs will get better one way or the other.   
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64714/20100215/murphy_is_clevelands_plan_b/

If the Cavaliers aren't able to work out a deal with the Suns for Amare Stoudemire, they'll focus their attention on Indiana's Troy Murphy.

According to the Los Angeles Times, the Cavaliers and Pacers have agreed on a deal should Cleveland's pursuit of Stoudemire come up empty.

Cleveland would ship Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Indiana for the power forward.

The Pacers may then waive Ilgauskas.

[Jon]

If Amare comes - Shaq might get dealt.  There are a lot of options for Cleveland to move Shaq.  Amare and Shaq stunk out loud playing together a year ago.  Amare is soft - Shaq has never been soft - and obsessed with his own numbers.  Him in Cleveland is a lateral move from what the Cavs have now. 

Shaq has already addressed this.  He has no desire to be 'the man' in Cleveland so he and Amare won't need to be fighting over shots in CLE. 

Anyone who thinks Amare would be a lateral move is being blinded by their Celtic love (which isn't a bad thing since you are Celtic fans)

I'm not saying it won't work out.  However, I will agree with those who have some skepticism.  Unfortunately, big dunks and flashy plays get you big headlines and thus league wide respect.  But for a big man of his apparent stature, he plays horrid defense, doesn't rebound well, has been the beneficiary of Steve Nash's passes, and has done very, very little as far as winning on some very good teams (the fact he made it to the WCF a few years ago should be surprising in the fact that it isn't the norm, in comparison to PP, KG, and Ray's sole appearances where we should all be surprised that they made it that far at all with their horrid surrounding casts). 

Might he change on Cleveland?  Sure.  But I wouldn't necessarily count on in it given his contract status.  Also, I wouldn't put aside the fact that the Amare/Shaq combination with a pretty good backcourt of Steve Nash, Jason Richardson, and Grant Hill couldn't even make the playoffs last year.  I don't know why putting that duo with LeBron, Parker, and Williams (who can't even make the Finals) is a guarantee of a championship. 

I am missing the logic of your last sentence.  This is the first year Parker has been on the Cavs.  Of course they haven't made the finals.  Are you saying Lebron and Mo couldn't make the finals? 

Either way, a starting lineup of Mo, Parker, Lebron, Amare and Shaq with Delonte, Gibson, Moon, Z (he would be bought out by PHX), AV and Leon Powe coming off the bench is completely different than relying on Wally World, Ben Wallace and Darnell Jackson of your bench.

You can't compare last year to this year, and it is an entire team that wins a championship, not just a couple of players.   

Fine forget Parker.  What I'm saying is I don't understand how putting the the front court of a pretty talented team that couldn't even make the playoffs + LeBron (and Williams and a decent wing) who couldn't even make the NBA Finals, somehow yields an automatic championship.

I'm also not saying that they won't win it all.  All I'm saying is that I wouldn't call the deal a homerun right away. 

[MMacOH]

Looks like the Cavs will get better one way or the other.   
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64714/20100215/murphy_is_clevelands_plan_b/

If the Cavaliers aren't able to work out a deal with the Suns for Amare Stoudemire, they'll focus their attention on Indiana's Troy Murphy.

According to the Los Angeles Times, the Cavaliers and Pacers have agreed on a deal should Cleveland's pursuit of Stoudemire come up empty.

Cleveland would ship Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Indiana for the power forward.

The Pacers may then waive Ilgauskas.

I would be shocked if this deal actually went down.  From everything i have read in Cleveland, there is no chance that Hickson gets moved for Murphy.

[wdleehi]

If Amare comes - Shaq might get dealt.  There are a lot of options for Cleveland to move Shaq.  Amare and Shaq stunk out loud playing together a year ago.  Amare is soft - Shaq has never been soft - and obsessed with his own numbers.  Him in Cleveland is a lateral move from what the Cavs have now. 

Shaq has already addressed this.  He has no desire to be 'the man' in Cleveland so he and Amare won't need to be fighting over shots in CLE. 

Anyone who thinks Amare would be a lateral move is being blinded by their Celtic love (which isn't a bad thing since you are Celtic fans)

I'm not saying it won't work out.  However, I will agree with those who have some skepticism.  Unfortunately, big dunks and flashy plays get you big headlines and thus league wide respect.  But for a big man of his apparent stature, he plays horrid defense, doesn't rebound well, has been the beneficiary of Steve Nash's passes, and has done very, very little as far as winning on some very good teams (the fact he made it to the WCF a few years ago should be surprising in the fact that it isn't the norm, in comparison to PP, KG, and Ray's sole appearances where we should all be surprised that they made it that far at all with their horrid surrounding casts). 

Might he change on Cleveland?  Sure.  But I wouldn't necessarily count on in it given his contract status.  Also, I wouldn't put aside the fact that the Amare/Shaq combination with a pretty good backcourt of Steve Nash, Jason Richardson, and Grant Hill couldn't even make the playoffs last year.  I don't know why putting that duo with LeBron, Parker, and Williams (who can't even make the Finals) is a guarantee of a championship. 

I am missing the logic of your last sentence.  This is the first year Parker has been on the Cavs.  Of course they haven't made the finals.  Are you saying Lebron and Mo couldn't make the finals? 

Either way, a starting lineup of Mo, Parker, Lebron, Amare and Shaq with Delonte, Gibson, Moon, Z (he would be bought out by PHX), AV and Leon Powe coming off the bench is completely different than relying on Wally World, Ben Wallace and Darnell Jackson of your bench.

You can't compare last year to this year, and it is an entire team that wins a championship, not just a couple of players.   

Fine forget Parker.  What I'm saying is I don't understand how putting the the front court of a pretty talented team that couldn't even make the playoffs + LeBron (and Williams and a decent wing) who couldn't even make the NBA Finals, somehow yields an automatic championship.

I'm also not saying that they won't win it all.  All I'm saying is that I wouldn't call the deal a homerun right away. 

Didn't Amare go out with an injury last year? 


Wasn't that team 46-36?



Now, the Cavs failed because:

1) Lebron didn't have a true 2nd option (this trade fixes that)
2) They had all sorts of issues at PF.  Could guard Orlando's PFs, but not talented enough to hurt them the other way.  (this trade also fixes that)


Now Lebron has made the Finals. 

[MMacOH]

I never really said that getting Amare is a guaranteed championship.  I did say that he was much better than Hickson

[Jon]

I never really said that getting Amare is a guaranteed championship.  I did say that he was much better than Hickson

I wasn't really reacting to you.  I was more reacting to the sentiment of some people. 

And my critique of Amare is that usually when you have a superstar big man paired with a two-time MVP point guard and a MVP 4-time champion center (not to mention a good surrounding cast), you expect big things. 

Yeah, it was unfortunate that with a winning record, they missed the playoffs.

However, you would've thought that they would've been a slam dunk for a WCF showdown with L.A. with that roster.  Yet they didn't even make the playoffs. 

Thus, I have to question just how much Amare fits in with Cleveland.  Obviously all that talent didn't mesh well in Phoenix.  Who's to say it will in Cleveland?

[Who]

Amare is to LeBron what Gasol was to Kobe.

Give an MVP candidate a true second option and his team will go to another level and the Cavs are already an elite team + the frontrunner in the East.

[MMacOH]

It may not mesh in Cleveland, that would always be a possibility.  But, I do know that Lebron has the ability to bring out the best in everyone around him.

Just think of a high pick and roll with Lebron and Amare.  What do you do?  Do you double out on Lebron and leave Amare open?  That's a slam dunk waiting to happen.  You can't Lebron get going towards the rim.  Do you rotate someone over to Amare and hope he doesn't find Shaq now waiting at the rim?  Do you leave Mo, Parker, West or Gibson open for 3?

I think he opens up a lot more opportunities in the Cavs system than Hickson does.  

[Jon]

Amare is to LeBron what Gasol was to Kobe.

Give an MVP candidate a true second option and his team will go to another level and the Cavs are already an elite team + the frontrunner in the East.

Maybe.  But Gasol was mired on a terrible Memphis team.  He had an excuse for underachieving.  Stoudemire has been playing with the best point guard in basketball for years and had the the chance to play with an elite center and still couldn't do anything.  

Cleveland may win because they're already so darn good.  But I'm not convinced that if they aren't already pretty darn close to being L.A.'s equals now that he does enough to make them champions.  

[EJPLAYA]

Amare may not guarantee Cleveland a championship, but it pretty much guarantees that the CELTICS won't win one. If this goes down, and it appears that it will, stick a fork in us.

If this does happen I would be in favor of letting Ray's deal expire this year and trying to re-sign him on the cheap. Try and make a smaller trade involving BBD, Scal, and another to get us a solid role player. Then sit KG the rest of the year so he'll fully heal. Sit anyone else that needs it for as long as they do. Then go after a 2nd tier free agent next offseason like a Joe Johnson or an Al Harrington or Manu Ginobli or Mike Miller. If we traded this year for a solid athletic big and then added one of these wings we'd be right back in the thick of it if KG was allowed to fully heal.