GSW Fire Sale according to Rick Bucher

[Atzar]

It might be hard to imagine GS unloading Randolph and Morrow just to get rid of Maggette, but what if it was to get rid of Maggette or Ellis and vlad's deal?

I could see a Ray and a 1st for Randolph, Vlad, Morrow, Ellis type package. I'd have to do that. Try to play Ellis and Rondo together (As i think Brick pointed out, Baron is not a great three point shooter and they were very good together), and insert Morrow if other teams are really clogging.

Well, the difference is that Rondo will not take a three unless it's at the end of the shot clock (and for good reason).  Baron may not shoot a very high percentage, but he WILL shoot them and that forces teams to respect him from long range.

[PosImpos]

If we could trade a couple expirings for Maggette / Bell or a player like Randolph, Morrow, or Azubuike I'd definitely consider doing it.

[jdpapa3]

Ellis played very well when he was off the ball with Baron Davis. He shot 53% on 15 fg attempts per game and averaged 20 a game. That is absolutely phenomenal. His TS% was also solid at 58%.

It is possible though that this season has cemented some bad habits in his game. But before his injury he has done it.

He used to be a mid 40s % on jump shots and has gone into the 20s % in the last 2 years.

[TradeProposalDude]

GS's players are intriguing. The only problem is that their valuable players have bad contracts. I would love to have Monta Ellis, but based on the latest report he's not going anywhere. Corey Maggette could probably be had, but at what price? Remember when a report was published that the Celtics had offered Maggette the MLE in 2007 but turned it down? There may still be some mutual interest given the rumor is true. Players like Raja Bell and Vladimir Radmanovic would come cheaper but likewise at what cost? I'd personally refuse to part with anyone not named Scalabrine and Giddens. And based on how he's played of late, I'd prefer having Tony Allen over Bell or Radmanovic. With regard to Maggette, it might be different however. Mags is having a very good year.

[LarBrd33]

I'm only going to be excited if we somehow get Randolph... just because it would be fun to see Bill Simmons absolutely freak out.

[dlpin]

Where does it say we need a 3pt shooter?  I thought the complaint was they shoot too many 3's.  Some of you no idea what you're talking about w/ regard to Ellis although I assume most of it just masking your KEEP CLASSY RAY ALLEN.  At least I hope so that would make some sense.

1- A 3 point threat spaces the floor
2- The fact that Ellis doesn't shoot 3 pointers well doesn't mean that he doesn't shoot them. He is on pace to 200 this season. And we don't need to shoot fewer 3 pointers. In fact, we are at just about the league average in terms of 3 point shots taken. What we need is for the people shooting poorly to stop shooting. Sheed is shooting at 29.8%. He shouldnt take so many threes. Ellis is shooting at 30.7%. He shouldnt take so many threes either.

Finally, all the "pluses" that Ellis is supposed to bring to the celtics are based on the hope that he will accept a completely different role here, which is not guaranteed in any way. Even in his seasons with Baron davis Ellis never averaged less than 20% usage.

[ManUp]

No way we'd handy cap ourselves by trading Ray and bringing back Maggette's contract. No way we're trading Ray and getting Ellis, Randolph, and Morrow from Golden State. I would personally drive Ray to the airport to get this one done.

[GreenFaith1819]

Where does it say we need a 3pt shooter?  I thought the complaint was they shoot too many 3's.  Some of you no idea what you're talking about w/ regard to Ellis although I assume most of it just masking your KEEP CLASSY RAY ALLEN.  At least I hope so that would make some sense.

1- A 3 point threat spaces the floor
2- The fact that Ellis doesn't shoot 3 pointers well doesn't mean that he doesn't shoot them. He is on pace to 200 this season. And we don't need to shoot fewer 3 pointers. In fact, we are at just about the league average in terms of 3 point shots taken. What we need is for the people shooting poorly to stop shooting. Sheed is shooting at 29.8%. He shouldnt take so many threes. Ellis is shooting at 30.7%. He shouldnt take so many threes either.

Finally, all the "pluses" that Ellis is supposed to bring to the celtics are based on the hope that he will accept a completely different role here, which is not guaranteed in any way. Even in his seasons with Baron davis Ellis never averaged less than 20% usage.

Good Point (Monta accepting a different role). I could be wrong, but IMO I don't believe he would keep his same PPG average if he came to Boston.

[sk7326]

Monta Ellis played extremely well when GS had Baron Davis, who dominates the ball more than Rondo.  The idea that Ellis demands the ball is a myth.  He plays extremely well off the ball.  He can flat out score, and he does it the old fashioned way.  There's certainly no one on the current Celtics who can stop him consistently.

But I want no part of either Maggette or Radmanovich, both of who are selfish players who don't defend.  I want Raja Bell (expiring) and one of their young forwards, either Brandon Wright or Anthony Randolph.

Ellis - the who had a lower assist rate (rate, key word) than Derek Fisher?  He won't dominate the shot clock because the Warriors ran way more than the Celts do.  Rondo doesn't really dominate the ball anyway - they get so many baskets from assists that it belies the notion.  We're much more of a passing team than GS is.  Monta is a lousy defender - low effort, on a team where effort to play D is not rewarded.

Where Ellis is unselfish and Maggette is not is an interesting distinction considering they both pass about equally frequently (not very) ... but Maggette takes FAR fewer shots to get his points and gets to the line a ton.  Shots he doesn't take - possessions he doesn't waste are possessions other people can use.  Defense is bad - but going to a defense-first culture will help.  Also, he is used to being a 6th man - this team has nearly zippo in depth, he would be invaluable.  His contract seems bad - but for what he provides (proven, sustainable scoring because of his ridiculous ability to draw fouls) the price is not bad.

But if the Warriors want him to be the bad contract to take for Randolph - that is more a Mike Lowell in the Beckett trade sort of bad contract.

[PosImpos]

Monta Ellis played extremely well when GS had Baron Davis, who dominates the ball more than Rondo.  The idea that Ellis demands the ball is a myth.  He plays extremely well off the ball.  He can flat out score, and he does it the old fashioned way.  There's certainly no one on the current Celtics who can stop him consistently.

But I want no part of either Maggette or Radmanovich, both of who are selfish players who don't defend.  I want Raja Bell (expiring) and one of their young forwards, either Brandon Wright or Anthony Randolph.

Where Ellis is unselfish and Maggette is not is an interesting distinction considering they both pass about equally frequently (not very) ... but Maggette takes FAR fewer shots to get his points and gets to the line a ton.  Shots he doesn't take - possessions he doesn't waste are possessions other people can use.  Defense is bad - but going to a defense-first culture will help.  Also, he is used to being a 6th man - this team has nearly zippo in depth, he would be invaluable.  His contract seems bad - but for what he provides (proven, sustainable scoring because of his ridiculous ability to draw fouls) the price is not bad.

But if the Warriors want him to be the bad contract to take for Randolph - that is more a Mike Lowell in the Beckett trade sort of bad contract.

You make some good points, and I do believe that Maggette is not overpaid for what he brings given his efficiency (21.2 PER this season) and his ability to draw fouls.  On the other hand, he really can't shoot outside of mid-range, making him a bad fit with our bench group, which currently consists of only one player who can hit 3's better than ~30% of the time.  He's a SF who scores like a PF.  His defense is nothing to write home about, either.

Also, Maggette's contract might just be too much money, even if he is worth it in terms of talent.  It's worth noting that Maggette is 30 with 4 years left on his contract.  There's a good chance, given his play style, that by the end of that contract he'll be grossly overpaid for what he brings to the table, even if that's not the case now.

Nevertheless, if we could extort Golden State for Anthony Randolph and / or CJ Watson along with Maggette, it may just be worth it.

[wiley]

I personally think we could very well win a championship with either Ray Allen or Monta Ellis.  But it would be too risky.  The best reason to get Ellis would be to then trade him in a package for Evan Turner, but alas and again, too risky.....

I think Big 3 forever is going to the be the way to go....all of them off the bench in a couple of years....

[arctic 3.0]

imo maggette's contract is worth it if we could land a young beast like randolph and or sharp shooter morrow.

if this could be done for spare parts (either scal tony and house and/or davis, walker)i wouldn't think twice about taking on maggette's contract.

[jdpapa3]

I personally think we could very well win a championship with either Ray Allen or Monta Ellis.  But it would be too risky.  The best reason to get Ellis would be to then trade him in a package for Evan Turner, but alas and again, too risky.....

I think Big 3 forever is going to the be the way to go....all of them off the bench in a couple of years....

I would do that trade right now, but Turner is going in the 2-3 range and Ellis is not worth that.

[wiley]

I personally think we could very well win a championship with either Ray Allen or Monta Ellis.  But it would be too risky.  The best reason to get Ellis would be to then trade him in a package for Evan Turner, but alas and again, too risky.....

I think Big 3 forever is going to the be the way to go....all of them off the bench in a couple of years....

I would do that trade right now, but Turner is going in the 2-3 range and Ellis is not worth that.

yeah I agree...that's why I mentioned the package...
by risky I mainly meant risky regarding this year's title, not risky regarding potential to get Turner or some other draft stud...though that could be challenging as well (as you say).

[scoop]

Where Ellis is unselfish and Maggette is not is an interesting distinction considering they both pass about equally frequently (not very) ...  but Maggette takes FAR fewer shots to get his points and gets to the line a ton.  Shots he doesn't take - possessions he doesn't waste are possessions other people can use. Defense is bad - but going to a defense-first culture will help.  Also, he is used to being a 6th man - this team has nearly zippo in depth, he would be invaluable.  His contract seems bad - but for what he provides (proven, sustainable scoring because of his ridiculous ability to draw fouls) the price is not bad.

Well, unless he's always drawing flagrant fouls, which he isn't, that's not true - you don't need to take a shot to waste a possession.

Maggette's usage rate is 26.1%. In the Celtics, the player with the highest usage rate is Paul Pierce, with a 22.9%. 

Of course, Ellis is in Kobe/Wade/Arenas territory with a 29.1 usage rate, but, in all fairness, his assist rate is almost the double of Maggette's.

In any case, I disagree this team has nearly zippo in depth. When healthy, they have a solid 8/9 men rotation. For the playoffs, that's all that matters. I suppose a player like Maggette can help an offensively challenged unit (it needs to be a really bad one), but I fail to see how an unit with 2/3 out of Rondo/Ray/Pierce/Garnett plus Daniels/Wallace comes even close of being offensively challenged.

Plus, is there a player in the league more unpleasant to the eye than Maggette?