GSW considering Ellis for Allen?

[Fan from VT]

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910GSW.HTM

Scariest thing about him is that the Warriors are WAYYY better when he is not on the floor.

He's averaging 42 minutes a game, so the raw on/off court numbers cannot be taken at face value. Two sample sizes that are way out of wack.

I think the statistics are on the right track on this one -- the Warriors are better with Ellis off the court. They move the ball better, more players are involved, and they're harder to defend. They're also more efficient. They're a better offensive team when he's off the floor and they're a better defensive team when they play bigger.

I do think it's hard to put stock in this stat. Is AC Law really that much better than everyone else on the team? Azubuike was playing incredibly before he got injured and he's in the negative. Bell is at -20, and everyone still wants him!

[Evantime34]

I think Ellis actually would not be a bad fit for the Celtics, he is lightning quick and gets to the hoop with ease. Him and Rondo in transition would be good for 20 points a game.

However, in order to match salaries we would either have to take on Radmonovic and a small contract or Corey Maggette. I'm sure the Warriors would gladly trade away Radmonovic, but I doubt they give away Maggette without getting something of value back.

Either way I think we would need to give up a 1st to get the deal done.

[Chris]

It's the same thing with Iguodala in Philadelphia.  You wouldn't think he'd be available in a salary dump, but apparently he is.  Teams are regretting give big money, long term deals to players they can't build around.

Well, let's not overstate things here.  The rumors are that Iguodala could be had in a deal that rids the sixers another of their terrible contracts (either Brand, or more likely Dalembert).  So while they may regret his signing a bit, they are not giving him away, they are considering using him as sweetener in a salary dump.  It is kind of like the C's using the pick that became Brandon Roy in order to dump Lafrentz for Ratliff's shorter deal.

This is also where I think Ellis is.  Yes, I think they want to get rid of him, but he does have value, and they will not get rid of him unless they are either getting assets in return, or getting rid of another bad contract that does not have value (Maggette for example). 

[Who]

I think Golden State's best team is has Curry and Morrow in the backcourt. Then has Azubuike or Maggette at small forward and Anthony Randolph at power forward. Then Biedrins at center.

I think Golden State plays it's best basketball offensively when they're based around the unselfishness of Curry + Morrow. Their passing ability, shooting ability, and willingness to share the ball allows their teammates to be more effective offensively. And, I think GSW plays it's best defensive ball when they avoid their small ball lineups.

Ideally, Monta Ellis could be a combo guard off the bench but he's too big a personality and has too big a reputation, and too big a contract, for that to happen. Ellis would add a great deal to the Warriors in that role.

[Evantime34]

Didn't Ellis sprain the ankle that he initially hurt riding a motorcycle (or was it a moped)?

[arctic 3.0]

Didn't Ellis sprain the ankle that he initially hurt riding a motorcycle (or was it a moped)?

according to prosportsdaily it is the other ankle. that said there is no way i do this trade.
i don't think monta's style will gel with the first unit and considering our age its all about winning this year.

i'd much rather try and get martin from sac town. he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective and would space the floor like allen. plus the "bad" contract we would need to take on is nocioni, a far better fit for us then radmonovic.

[ssspence]

the Cs aren't trading for ellis, and the warriors aren't trading for ray.

what i find interesting here is that the two teams are talking. what i'd like to see is the Cs getting maggette and a young player for eddie, scal, giddens, etc. the warriors have trashed maggette's value by overshopping him, and though his contract is long it's not unreasonably high -- meaning the Cs could add him AND keep paul and ray at the wing for the next couple of years. that's a great three man rotation and would keep some of those older legs fresh.

you could also throw in baby or a pick to get what you want out of it (i.e. morrow).

[arctic 3.0]

the Cs aren't trading for ellis, and the warriors aren't trading for ray.

what i find interesting here is that the two teams are talking. what i'd like to see is the Cs getting maggette and a young player for eddie, scal, giddens, etc. the warriors have trashed maggette's value by overshopping him, and though his contract is long it's not unreasonably high -- meaning the Cs could add him AND keep paul and ray at the wing for the next couple of years. that's a great three man rotation and would keep some of those older legs fresh.

you could also throw in baby or a pick to get what you want out of it (i.e. morrow).

your suggestion makes much more sense for us than ellis.

there will be lots of names available this deadline. if the right deal (that improves the team now and in the future) comes along i hope danny pulls the trigger. other wise stay the course. we have as good a shot at winning it all as anyone.

[PLamb]

the Cs aren't trading for ellis, and the warriors aren't trading for ray.

what i find interesting here is that the two teams are talking. what i'd like to see is the Cs getting maggette and a young player for eddie, scal, giddens, etc. the warriors have trashed maggette's value by overshopping him, and though his contract is long it's not unreasonably high -- meaning the Cs could add him AND keep paul and ray at the wing for the next couple of years. that's a great three man rotation and would keep some of those older legs fresh.

you could also throw in baby or a pick to get what you want out of it (i.e. morrow).

your suggestion makes much more sense for us than ellis.

there will be lots of names available this deadline. if the right deal (that improves the team now and in the future) comes along i hope danny pulls the trigger. other wise stay the course. we have as good a shot at winning it all as anyone.

I think it makes more sense for us but not necessarily more sense as a trade

I just don't see teams across the league clamoring to the Celtics door asking to turn over starting caliber players like Maggette and Morrow for players that will have trouble cracking most 8 man rotations in the league like Davis, Scalabrine, Tony Allen, Eddie House, JR Giddens and Billy Walker whether their contracts are expiring or not

And enticing them with first round draft picks that are going to be just a pick or two above picks who's quality isn't that much better but who you don't have to guarantee a million dollar a year contract to isn't all that great either

[Overrated]

I wouldn't mind Boston trading for Ellis, even though he shoots way too much and turns it over too. He's only 24 though, and how old is Ray? He won't be as serviceable in a few years, so it wouldn't be a bad move for Boston.

[ssspence]

the Cs aren't trading for ellis, and the warriors aren't trading for ray.

what i find interesting here is that the two teams are talking. what i'd like to see is the Cs getting maggette and a young player for eddie, scal, giddens, etc. the warriors have trashed maggette's value by overshopping him, and though his contract is long it's not unreasonably high -- meaning the Cs could add him AND keep paul and ray at the wing for the next couple of years. that's a great three man rotation and would keep some of those older legs fresh.

you could also throw in baby or a pick to get what you want out of it (i.e. morrow).

your suggestion makes much more sense for us than ellis.

there will be lots of names available this deadline. if the right deal (that improves the team now and in the future) comes along i hope danny pulls the trigger. other wise stay the course. we have as good a shot at winning it all as anyone.

I think it makes more sense for us but not necessarily more sense as a trade

I just don't see teams across the league clamoring to the Celtics door asking to turn over starting caliber players like Maggette and Morrow for players that will have trouble cracking most 8 man rotations in the league like Davis, Scalabrine, Tony Allen, Eddie House, JR Giddens and Billy Walker whether their contracts are expiring or not

And enticing them with first round draft picks that are going to be just a pick or two above picks who's quality isn't that much better but who you don't have to guarantee a million dollar a year contract to isn't all that great either

the cs players going their way are incidental. the warriors want out from under maggette's contract. very few teams are currently willing to add salary. The Cs should be one of them. they can add maggette and likely keep ray for the total cost of what they're paying ray this year.

[rondohondo]

The only way I do this deal is if it is

Bos sends:  Ray & House
GS sends:   Ellis , Radmonovic & Morrow

OR


Bos sends : Ray , TA
GS. Sends:  Ellis , Bell & filler


If we can't get one of those packages then forget it.

If Nate Robinson is on the trading block I would rather go after him. He is probably about 75% of what Monta Ellis, but he doesn't have a huge contract and we wouldn't have to give up Ray.

[jdpapa3]

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910GSW.HTM

Scariest thing about him is that the Warriors are WAYYY better when he is not on the floor.

He's averaging 42 minutes a game, so the raw on/off court numbers cannot be taken at face value. Two sample sizes that are way out of wack.

I think the statistics are on the right track on this one -- the Warriors are better with Ellis off the court. They move the ball better, more players are involved, and they're harder to defend. They're also more efficient. They're a better offensive team when he's off the floor and they're a better defensive team when they play bigger.

I do think it's hard to put stock in this stat. Is AC Law really that much better than everyone else on the team? Azubuike was playing incredibly before he got injured and he's in the negative. Bell is at -20, and everyone still wants him!

Yea, you have to ignore it when the stat has someone at a low % of minutes. For instance, Bill Walker had a comical number in the negative column for a couple of weeks because he had played about 30 seconds and had a -4 or so.

[Roy Hobbs]

It's the same thing with Iguodala in Philadelphia.  You wouldn't think he'd be available in a salary dump, but apparently he is.  Teams are regretting give big money, long term deals to players they can't build around.

Well, let's not overstate things here.  The rumors are that Iguodala could be had in a deal that rids the sixers another of their terrible contracts (either Brand, or more likely Dalembert).  So while they may regret his signing a bit, they are not giving him away, they are considering using him as sweetener in a salary dump.  It is kind of like the C's using the pick that became Brandon Roy in order to dump Lafrentz for Ratliff's shorter deal.

Dalembert has, what, $12.9 million left on his deal?  And VladRad has $6.9 million left?  Why is it hard to believe that Golden State wouldn't move Ellis in a salary dump, if Philly would do the same thing with a superior player for only $6 million more in immediate savings?

I'm having a hard time seeing why you think Golden State would never do a deal like this, when other teams have done so / are rumored to be looking into the possibility.  Monta Ellis isn't the guy the Warriors want to build around, so it wouldn't shock me in the least if they offered him around the league.

[sk7326]

Funny thing is, I'd rather have Maggette ... his deal is considered poisonous, but that's BS.  He's having a terrific season, he gets to the line like crazy.  He is a sixth man type, but what a sixth man he'd be.  However, Maggette has been the undercoating the Warriors have been schlepping for limitless superfreak Anthony Randolph.  For instance:

Ray Allen and a first rounder

for

Corey Maggette, Anthony Randolph, Speedy Claxton

Claxton makes the numbers work - he comes off the books next year and could very well be begged to retire after the season due to injury. 

Allen of course can shoot and clears Maggette's contract for Golden State. And if Allen tries to buy himself out, so much the better.