GSW considering Ellis for Allen?

[PosImpos]

Here's an interesting one, an absolute blockbuster that actually could be argued for each side:

Golden State trades Ellis, Maggette

Gets Ray, Boston #1

Minnesota trades Al Jefferson

Gets Glen Davis and either Maggette/Ellis

Boston trades Ray, Baby, #1

Gets Jefferson, Ellis/Maggette


Boston is set for the next few years, regardless of which guy they get at the 2 spot.

Minnesota has been rumored to want to move Jefferson for a wing scorer. They do so, and get Baby out of the deal as a bonus.

Then Golden State really gets salary relief for the chance to build their Morrow/Curry/Randolph core with their own pick and a late first rounder from us.

If David Kahn did this he ought to be fired, tarred and feathered, and run out of time

What, say they have 2 guys playing the same position and trade the more expensive one for a scoring guard, which the team doesn't have and he's stated they need as well as getting a nice role playing PF/C?

So you think it's a good idea to trade away a legit 20-10 big man who is one of the most talented post scorers in the game, one of the few players who actually commands a double team in the post, in return for a ball-hogging combo guard who doesn't like to play defense?

Let's put it this way:

Players like Al Jefferson in the league - very few, don't come along very often.

Players like Monta Ellis in the league - pretty common, easy to come by.

If the Wolves trade Big Al, suddenly they have no true low post threat.  K-Love is not a great post scorer; he's more of a complementary player.  Just because the Wolves could use a wing scorer doesn't mean they should trade away the best player on their team for one.

Finally, Big Al really isn't a PF, he's a C.  That's the position he's been playing for a while now and in the modern NBA it's impossible for a guy of his size and slow speed to play at the 4 without getting burned on defense almost every game.

[scoop]

Better trade for the Warriors than for the Celtics. Ellis is too one-dimensional.

[Fan from VT]

Here's an interesting one, an absolute blockbuster that actually could be argued for each side:

Golden State trades Ellis, Maggette

Gets Ray, Boston #1

Minnesota trades Al Jefferson

Gets Glen Davis and either Maggette/Ellis

Boston trades Ray, Baby, #1

Gets Jefferson, Ellis/Maggette


Boston is set for the next few years, regardless of which guy they get at the 2 spot.

Minnesota has been rumored to want to move Jefferson for a wing scorer. They do so, and get Baby out of the deal as a bonus.

Then Golden State really gets salary relief for the chance to build their Morrow/Curry/Randolph core with their own pick and a late first rounder from us.

If David Kahn did this he ought to be fired, tarred and feathered, and run out of time

What, say they have 2 guys playing the same position and trade the more expensive one for a scoring guard, which the team doesn't have and he's stated they need as well as getting a nice role playing PF/C?

So you think it's a good idea to trade away a legit 20-10 big man who is one of the most talented post scorers in the game, one of the few players who actually commands a double team in the post, in return for a ball-hogging combo guard who doesn't like to play defense?

Let's put it this way:

Players like Al Jefferson in the league - very few, don't come along very often.

Players like Monta Ellis in the league - pretty common, easy to come by.

If the Wolves trade Big Al, suddenly they have no true low post threat.  K-Love is not a great post scorer; he's more of a complementary player.  Just because the Wolves could use a wing scorer doesn't mean they should trade away the best player on their team for one.

Finally, Big Al really isn't a PF, he's a C.  That's the position he's been playing for a while now and in the modern NBA it's impossible for a guy of his size and slow speed to play at the 4 without getting burned on defense almost every game.

Hey, I wouldn't do the trade from Kahn's perspective, but Kahn has already proven to be a questionable GM and there are already rumblings that he'd move Al and his contract for a wing player. I just go off things I hear when i make trade scenarios, NOT what I think I would do or what I want to happen. Clearly Kahn would have done Al for Granger in a heart beat. We already know that. Now, Ellis is not as good as Granger, but he is a young, dynamic scoring semi-star that could certainly be attractive to a guy like Kahn who wants to make a splash and sell tickets. If he could get baby too, and maybe a distant pick from us, (maybe our number one in this deal goes to minny since G.S. really just wants out of long term contracts and might not need extra incentive), he may actually do such a deal.

[PosImpos]

Here's an interesting one, an absolute blockbuster that actually could be argued for each side:

Golden State trades Ellis, Maggette

Gets Ray, Boston #1

Minnesota trades Al Jefferson

Gets Glen Davis and either Maggette/Ellis

Boston trades Ray, Baby, #1

Gets Jefferson, Ellis/Maggette


Boston is set for the next few years, regardless of which guy they get at the 2 spot.

Minnesota has been rumored to want to move Jefferson for a wing scorer. They do so, and get Baby out of the deal as a bonus.

Then Golden State really gets salary relief for the chance to build their Morrow/Curry/Randolph core with their own pick and a late first rounder from us.

If David Kahn did this he ought to be fired, tarred and feathered, and run out of time

What, say they have 2 guys playing the same position and trade the more expensive one for a scoring guard, which the team doesn't have and he's stated they need as well as getting a nice role playing PF/C?

So you think it's a good idea to trade away a legit 20-10 big man who is one of the most talented post scorers in the game, one of the few players who actually commands a double team in the post, in return for a ball-hogging combo guard who doesn't like to play defense?

Let's put it this way:

Players like Al Jefferson in the league - very few, don't come along very often.

Players like Monta Ellis in the league - pretty common, easy to come by.

If the Wolves trade Big Al, suddenly they have no true low post threat.  K-Love is not a great post scorer; he's more of a complementary player.  Just because the Wolves could use a wing scorer doesn't mean they should trade away the best player on their team for one.

Finally, Big Al really isn't a PF, he's a C.  That's the position he's been playing for a while now and in the modern NBA it's impossible for a guy of his size and slow speed to play at the 4 without getting burned on defense almost every game.

Hey, I wouldn't do the trade from Kahn's perspective, but Kahn has already proven to be a questionable GM and there are already rumblings that he'd move Al and his contract for a wing player. I just go off things I hear when i make trade scenarios, NOT what I think I would do or what I want to happen. Clearly Kahn would have done Al for Granger in a heart beat. We already know that. Now, Ellis is not as good as Granger, but he is a young, dynamic scoring semi-star that could certainly be attractive to a guy like Kahn who wants to make a splash and sell tickets. If he could get baby too, and maybe a distant pick from us, (maybe our number one in this deal goes to minny since G.S. really just wants out of long term contracts and might not need extra incentive), he may actually do such a deal.

Danny Granger is worth about 3 Monta Ellis's

[KungPoweChicken]

Again, I really question trading for some of these underachieving players.  I know everyone wants to point to the fact that Ray, Paul, and KG never won anything until they came together, but when we look at Ellis and even more so when we look at Amare Stoudemire, we're looking at players who have had a good surrounding cast and still haven't really come close to sniffing a title. 

I mean think about how bad some of those Celtics teams that Pierce was on.  Other than Antoine, who could we say could unequivocally crack this teams healthy rotation right now?  Maybe Kenny Anderson. 

Same with Ray and KG.  Yes, they both only made it to the Coference Finals once, but KG did it with Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell, while Ray did it with Cassell and Glenn Robinson.  Good players, but hardly great players. 

With Stoudemire, as someone recently suggested, he's constantly had All Star quality players (Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Shaquille O'Neal, and Jason Richardson to name a few) around him and he's constantly been part of an underachieving Suns team.

With Ellis it's not quite as bad, but they have, on paper, some decent talent.  If that's the case, why does a team with a 26 ppg scorer and a good surrounding cast have such a bad record? 

It's either because the team is too young or the players overrated.  In either case, that type of player isn't going to help this team this year, which is all that really matters at this point. 

Grant Hill and Oneal, when Amare played with them, were no more than role players, not All-Stars. For that matter, Jason Richardson, the man you claim was another All-Star talent, has never even been to an All-Star game. Amare also played with a good, but young Joe Johnson and an overachieving Shawn Marion. Yeah, Stoudemire has played with some good players, no doubt, but let's not act like he's always had great players around him because that's just not true.

[timepiece33]

I would seriously consider a deal that would do the following:

To Golden State: Ray Allen and JR Giddens

To Boston: Corey Maggette, Raja Bell, and Speedy Claxton

Maggette replaces Allen with Bell being an all purpose backup. 

Allen gives them a veteran leader and they get Giddens.

[jambr380]

Again, I really question trading for some of these underachieving players.  I know everyone wants to point to the fact that Ray, Paul, and KG never won anything until they came together, but when we look at Ellis and even more so when we look at Amare Stoudemire, we're looking at players who have had a good surrounding cast and still haven't really come close to sniffing a title. 

I mean think about how bad some of those Celtics teams that Pierce was on.  Other than Antoine, who could we say could unequivocally crack this teams healthy rotation right now?  Maybe Kenny Anderson. 

Same with Ray and KG.  Yes, they both only made it to the Coference Finals once, but KG did it with Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell, while Ray did it with Cassell and Glenn Robinson.  Good players, but hardly great players. 

With Stoudemire, as someone recently suggested, he's constantly had All Star quality players (Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Shaquille O'Neal, and Jason Richardson to name a few) around him and he's constantly been part of an underachieving Suns team.

With Ellis it's not quite as bad, but they have, on paper, some decent talent.  If that's the case, why does a team with a 26 ppg scorer and a good surrounding cast have such a bad record? 

It's either because the team is too young or the players overrated.  In either case, that type of player isn't going to help this team this year, which is all that really matters at this point. 

Grant Hill and Oneal, when Amare played with them, were no more than role players, not All-Stars. For that matter, Jason Richardson, the man you claim was another All-Star talent, has never even been to an All-Star game. Amare also played with a good, but young Joe Johnson and an overachieving Shawn Marion. Yeah, Stoudemire has played with some good players, no doubt, but let's not act like he's always had great players around him because that's just not true.

Yeah, but I get his point. Every year the Suns look like they are really good and then they always fizzle out for some reason. I don't think it is necessarily Amare's fault, but it must just be a mindset of that team. And, for the record, I would LOVE an Amare deal involving Ray.

I think GS also has a similar mindset. Now Phoenix has been a much more accomplished running team than GS, but that is the direction that Nelson decided to go in. In my opinion, they really need to blow that team up and they have a number of G/F types w/ Monta leading the list in terms of salary...As far as Phoenix, I would just keep doing what they are doing down there- and unless they get some super-stud for Amare, they should just hang on to him.

[JSD]

I was for this deal than after some more thought I changed my mind. An undersized turnover prone Chucker who doesn't defend and seems to be a team cancer. Yes, thats basically what Ellis is when you look at it.

Basically, he's a poor man's AI, without the toughness or defense (when AI actually tried to play defense).

These were basically my exact words I used when I called in to Dale and Holly today to argue against bringing Monta Ellis to the Celtics. Mike Holley loves the idea of Ellis in Green and I don't agree.

I like where Roy stands on this idea.

[BirdDrivesaHondo]

OK, peeps-let's try to deal with reality.

We need a young PF who can play.  Look at Camby/Jamison.  Getting a future SF is the second biggest need.

Package parts-Ray, Sheed, House, Baby whatever.  Ray can still play and fills a role on the right team-at the bare minimum, an expiring contract.  Anybody want to see him on Cleveland or Orlando?

Sheed can't move his feet anymore on D or O and his game is all outside and no inside.

The core of this team is Rondo, Perk and TA.  KG can be an effective 6th man-if we get a better replacement as a starter.

Everything is negotiable.

[paintitgreen]

I would seriously consider a deal that would do the following:

To Golden State: Ray Allen and JR Giddens

To Boston: Corey Maggette, Raja Bell, and Speedy Claxton

Maggette replaces Allen with Bell being an all purpose backup. 

Allen gives them a veteran leader and they get Giddens.

I think Golden State would be all over that to clear cap space. Maggette is having a good season but is WAY overpaid some serious longterm money.

I'd only do it if we got Randolph (this team needs frontcourt athleticism for now and the future - he and Rondo will be great together and he's got the defensive skills to become an impact player on that end) and Brandan Wright (another young big with more potent offense than defense for future development - I think he's a victim of Golden State's inability to develop players) instead of Speedy Claxton and could get rid of some surplus players who will drop out of the rotation/put us over the roster limit (i.e., Shelden Williams, who obviously is not gonna play).

[arctic 3.0]

I would seriously consider a deal that would do the following:

To Golden State: Ray Allen and JR Giddens

To Boston: Corey Maggette, Raja Bell, and Speedy Claxton

Maggette replaces Allen with Bell being an all purpose backup. 

Allen gives them a veteran leader and they get Giddens.

I think Golden State would be all over that to clear cap space. Maggette is having a good season but is WAY overpaid some serious longterm money.

I'd only do it if we got Randolph (this team needs frontcourt athleticism for now and the future - he and Rondo will be great together and he's got the defensive skills to become an impact player on that end) and Brandan Wright (another young big with more potent offense than defense for future development - I think he's a victim of Golden State's inability to develop players) instead of Speedy Claxton and could get rid of some surplus players who will drop out of the rotation/put us over the roster limit (i.e., Shelden Williams, who obviously is not gonna play).

would love to get randolph.
LOVE!
i've ben futzing around with the trade machine and came up with a 3 way trade that helps us now and in the future. check out the posting "Homer trade #26,000"
essentially chi trades salmons and hinrich, thomas gets ray allen and g davis.
gs trades randolph and maggette gets salmons and thomas
bos gets hinrich randolph and maggette.

sounds far fetched but all three teams get what they want.
and with pierce down(?) this makes more sense than ever.

[paintitgreen]

I would seriously consider a deal that would do the following:

To Golden State: Ray Allen and JR Giddens

To Boston: Corey Maggette, Raja Bell, and Speedy Claxton

Maggette replaces Allen with Bell being an all purpose backup. 

Allen gives them a veteran leader and they get Giddens.

I think Golden State would be all over that to clear cap space. Maggette is having a good season but is WAY overpaid some serious longterm money.

I'd only do it if we got Randolph (this team needs frontcourt athleticism for now and the future - he and Rondo will be great together and he's got the defensive skills to become an impact player on that end) and Brandan Wright (another young big with more potent offense than defense for future development - I think he's a victim of Golden State's inability to develop players) instead of Speedy Claxton and could get rid of some surplus players who will drop out of the rotation/put us over the roster limit (i.e., Shelden Williams, who obviously is not gonna play).

would love to get randolph.
LOVE!
i've ben futzing around with the trade machine and came up with a 3 way trade that helps us now and in the future. check out the posting "Homer trade #26,000"
essentially chi trades salmons and hinrich, thomas gets ray allen and g davis.
gs trades randolph and maggette gets salmons and thomas
bos gets hinrich randolph and maggette.

sounds far fetched but all three teams get what they want.
and with pierce down(?) this makes more sense than ever.

Sorry I didn't mean to imply I thought it was doable - I'm not convinced G State gives up Randolph just to clear Maggette off the books, I'm saying that's what it would take for me to be interested in taking on all those long term dollars for a guy who might not be any better. I do like the Raja Bell inclusion, since you're getting two guys you can play and not just one. For me, though, I think you're really sacrificing your ability to win now - though Ray hasn't been good and Maggette might be better now, a midseason trade of this magnitude would disrupt our offense and defense a lot - so if I'm gonna do that, I want something on the back end, which is what Randolph is for. I think a Rondo-Randolph connection could be something special in a few years and THAT would be a nucleus you could potentially build around (Randolph is far from a sure thing - Tyrus Thomas had a lot of the same abilities and problems a few years ago, though he didn't have quite as much a skill set).

[Brickowski]

I have no interest in either Vlad Rad or Maggette, who is grossly overpaid.

I am interested in Monta Ellis, but it would have to be Ellis plus expirings and prospects for me to make the deal.  I'll take a chance on Ellis.  He may be one dimensional, but 26 ppg is quite a dimension, and as I said in another thread, he had his best numbers when playing with Baron Davis. He plays off the ball perfectly well.

But don't ask me to take two crappy contracts instead of one. Vlad Rad can't defend a chair and he has such a good personality that they kicked him off the Serbian national team because nobody liked him.  As for Maggette, he's Ricky Davis without the ganga.

If I deal for Ellis, I want Raja Bell (veteran, expiring, can still play a little defense), and either Randolph or Turiaf.  I doubt if GS will get a better deal anywhere else, and they need to clean up the payroll if they expect Lary Ellison to buy the team.

[Andy Jick]

i can't stand the 2010 version of maggette...and i could barely stomach the previous ones.  i want NOTHING to do with this clown...

[scoop]

Kevin Martin, yes. Monta Ellis, no.

Ellis needs to play next to a playmaking wing like LeBron James for example and a top-defensive guard able to defend the 1 and the 2 equally well.