What will Tebow be the NFL equivalent of?

[Donoghus]

If there is a future superstar that has been taking the field for the Broncos the last month, his name is Von Miller and not Tim Tebow.

He is playing like an absolute stud.

Tebow's flair for the dramatics and his effort/passion are admirable but he's still leaving a lot to be desired as a complete football player.

[Rondo2287]

But here's the part I don't like with your argument, its far too simplistic.

Teams can go an awful long way with a bad QB and win a lot of games, especially in the short term. Rex Grossman is a bad NFL QB, but he got the Bears in 2006 to the super bowl.

true, but if I remember Grossman didn't supplant a QB who had thrown for 4000 yards in the past and start winning, whereas previously they weren't. Also when he was young nobody was saying he couldn't play or had some debilitating hitch.

All unrelated to my point, which is that winning games in the short term doesn't tell you how good a QB is.

Well neither does losing them in the short term. P Manning's rookie year had tons of losses. Not saying Tebow is Manning. Or anyone else.  I'd say the Slash comparison strikes me as most accurate.

Exactly, wins are related to your team more than the QB even though the QB is the most important position.

Tebow's wins have been impressive, but his play overall has been poor.

I don't agree his play has been poor. It's just not what we're used to seeing. He has no INTs, I don't think any fumbles. Tons of running yards. A lot of leadership.

Agreed

[guava_wrench]

Tebow reminds me of the Dolphins' use of the wildcat. Worked for a while, but I am skeptical in the long term success. Once one team locks it down, everyone will follow the same strategy and where can Denver go from there?

The Denver coaching staff deserves tons of credit for creativity.

[Donoghus]

Tebow reminds me of the Dolphins' use of the wildcat. Worked for a while, but I am skeptical in the long term success. Once one team locks it down, everyone will follow the same strategy and where can Denver go from there?

The Denver coaching staff deserves tons of credit for creativity.

Harbaugh in SF will win it but what John Fox has done over the past month or so in Coach of the Year worthy.

[Fafnir]

But here's the part I don't like with your argument, its far too simplistic.

Teams can go an awful long way with a bad QB and win a lot of games, especially in the short term. Rex Grossman is a bad NFL QB, but he got the Bears in 2006 to the super bowl.

true, but if I remember Grossman didn't supplant a QB who had thrown for 4000 yards in the past and start winning, whereas previously they weren't. Also when he was young nobody was saying he couldn't play or had some debilitating hitch.

All unrelated to my point, which is that winning games in the short term doesn't tell you how good a QB is.

Well neither does losing them in the short term. P Manning's rookie year had tons of losses. Not saying Tebow is Manning. Or anyone else.  I'd say the Slash comparison strikes me as most accurate.

Exactly, wins are related to your team more than the QB even though the QB is the most important position.

Tebow's wins have been impressive, but his play overall has been poor.

I don't agree his play has been poor. It's just not what we're used to seeing. He has no INTs, I don't think any fumbles. Tons of running yards. A lot of leadership.

He's produced very few yards for his team relative to other QBs. His offensive production is poor, he's had 1 pick and 4 fumbles. The fumbles were recovered by Denver, but he still put the ball on the ground. (recovering fumbles is luck as its all about how the ball bounces) That's still very good as far as TOs from a QB, that's perhaps his best attribute.

The team is averaging 5.25 YPA on the ground with him starting and 4.05 Net YPA on called passing plays.

[Fafnir]

The Denver coaching staff deserves tons of credit for creativity.

Plus there are going to be games they can't win by just running the ball, you aren't going to score enough points to win week in an week out when all you can do is run the ball.

[Moranis]

Tebow reminds me of the Dolphins' use of the wildcat. Worked for a while, but I am skeptical in the long term success. Once one team locks it down, everyone will follow the same strategy and where can Denver go from there?

The Denver coaching staff deserves tons of credit for creativity.

Harbaugh in SF will win it but what John Fox has done over the past month or so in Coach of the Year worthy.

Marvin Lewis has to be right there as well at this point of the season.

[Fan from VT]

I do find it funny how many people are seemingly threatened by tebow and what he represents for the game of football.

 


That makes no sense.


Does that mean if I think the Redskins do not have a starting caliber QB I am threaten by Sexy Rexy and what he represents for the game of football?  I mean he won enough in one season to make it to the super bowl. 

Or Jackson?  He has had season where his teams won some games. 

People are clearly threatened because he is succeeding in a way that nobody else has.  I think Tebow is second in the league in yards after contact if im not mistaken.  (first is Adrian Peterson) You say that he is a bad qb, but he is what, 4-1 this year?  Over the last two years with Orton as the QB of the broncos I think they were 4-14.  If Tebow is a bad QB, what does that make Orton? 

And Orton is a guy that another teams training camp was chanting for this past off season.

Time to give the guy his props, just because he isnt doing it in a way you or other viewers are accustomed to seeing doesnt mean he is bad.

But here's the part I don't like with your argument, its far too simplistic.

Teams can go an awful long way with a bad QB and win a lot of games, especially in the short term. Rex Grossman is a bad NFL QB, but he got the Bears in 2006 to the super bowl.

true, but if I remember Grossman didn't supplant a QB who had thrown for 4000 yards in the past and start winning, whereas previously they weren't. Also when he was young nobody was saying he couldn't play or had some debilitating hitch.

No, but Tebow is replacing a guy who just 2 seasons ago went 6-0 to start a season with a similar team. Same team started slow  this season under a new coach after a lockout, and now the defense is playing great; I'd be interested to see what this team could have done with this defense playing this good, these receivers developing, and these players getting used to a new coach and playing very well. Before Tebow, the team was 1-1 against Cincy and Green Bay, one a juggernaught, the other surprisingly good. In those games, the defense surrendered an average of 35.5 points and forced 2 total turnovers, while the offense averaged 23.5 points in those two games. They are 4-1 against a slate that includes Miami, KC, Oakland minus their QB, Jets 3 days after a night game, and Detroit, and in those games, their offense averages  In Tebow's victories, the defense is allowing 15.5 points per game; San Fran leads the league at 15.3 points per game. Additionally, they've slightly increased their ability to create turnovers, at causing 6 in 5 games. Their offense has actually Dropped to 17.1 points per game, aided by a punt return TD and a pick-6 (and a fluky 60 yd run by mcgahee that does count in their offensive points).

Basically, their offense has gotten worse with Tebow, and if their defense didn't play so great (which, of course, has nothing to do with Tebow) in their 4 recent wins, then they'd have a much worse record, and if they started Tebow all year, judging by the effect on overall offense, they'd have one less win since they'd have lost the Cincy game. I think they'd have the same record as they do now if they'd kept Orton.

[action781]

I was thinking of putting this in a poll, but it's too complicated.


If you're John Fox what do you do?

I think with 6 games left he has to ride Tebow.

But then what?  If Tebow keeps winning or gets them in or close to the playoffs he has to keep  him and make him the #1 guy and in the mean time try to draft a kid in the 3rd round or something and maybe try to bring in a free agent with some ability like - I don't know - Chad Henne or something.

In the mean time do you trade Kyle Orton? Brady Quin? What can you get for guys that god beat out by Tebow?  

I think his hands are tied because the fans are in love with tebow and he keeps winning. And the fans will stay in love with him till he loses.

But seriously. You're John Fox....what do you do?

Its a tough spot, but its not really about Fox, its more about Elway.

Elway can't overtly draft Tebow's replacement (ie spend a high pick on a QB) until its clear Tebow needs a replacement.

Its not even really a question anymore; Fox has to ride Tebow, or at least he's gotta keep him very involved in the game (maybe splitting time with another QB, but how often has that worked?)

The real question is your last point. IF the Broncos even sniff the playoffs this year, what the heck do you do?

You spend your first 3 draft picks on mobile linemen, defense studs, and running backs, and you go with ol' Tebow to church. That's what you do.

Yes he can.

If you're the GM of the football team you have to do what's best for your franchise. If the best thing is to draft Andrew Luck when you have Peyton you need to do it. If you don't believe Tebow can be your franchise QB, you draft one if you have that opportunity.

If you lack the support of your owner to take such steps, or aren't willing to stand up to the media then you should resign.

This seems sorta overly romantic to me because if you get rid of the popular kid that was winning in favor of someone else and that guy loses you're screwed.

If you stick with the popular guy that was winning you probably get at least a one year grace period and then the new QB will have the toys you drafted to play with

Or you've wasted a bunch of draft picks trying to build an offense around a QB you don't believe in.

Why not focus on building a rock solid defense through the draft?

That's something that won't go to waste if Tebow doesn't pan out.

And if Tebow does pan out, then I'd argue that he would benefit most from a great defense that can keep games to within one possession.  Under the assumption that Tebow does pan out as some kind of clutch QB, then if defenses can keep many games close, Tebow will be in position to win them at the end as he has shown a penchant for doing.

In the meantime, collect some offensive players who would be more valuable to your system than others, like run blocking WR's such as Kevin Walter or Percy Harvin.  Keep a deep threat WR on the field to make safeties pay for not playing honest.

[Eja117]

Personally since Tebow seems to be the only American capable of drawing on divine miracles routinely we ought to send him to Congress to teach them how to act like adults instead of children and how to do their jobs.

Tebow for dictator in 2012.   I've given up hope. There's just no better way.   

Sorry. I saw Mr. Smith goes to Washington like 2 months ago and I think it's still affecting me

[Greenbean]

I do find it funny how many people are seemingly threatened by tebow and what he represents for the game of football.

 


That makes no sense.


Does that mean if I think the Redskins do not have a starting caliber QB I am threaten by Sexy Rexy and what he represents for the game of football?  I mean he won enough in one season to make it to the super bowl. 

Or Jackson?  He has had season where his teams won some games. 

People are clearly threatened because he is succeeding in a way that nobody else has.  I think Tebow is second in the league in yards after contact if im not mistaken.  (first is Adrian Peterson) You say that he is a bad qb, but he is what, 4-1 this year?  Over the last two years with Orton as the QB of the broncos I think they were 4-14.  If Tebow is a bad QB, what does that make Orton? 

And Orton is a guy that another teams training camp was chanting for this past off season.

Time to give the guy his props, just because he isnt doing it in a way you or other viewers are accustomed to seeing doesnt mean he is bad.

But here's the part I don't like with your argument, its far too simplistic.

Teams can go an awful long way with a bad QB and win a lot of games, especially in the short term. Rex Grossman is a bad NFL QB, but he got the Bears in 2006 to the super bowl.

true, but if I remember Grossman didn't supplant a QB who had thrown for 4000 yards in the past and start winning, whereas previously they weren't. Also when he was young nobody was saying he couldn't play or had some debilitating hitch.

No, but Tebow is replacing a guy who just 2 seasons ago went 6-0 to start a season with a similar team. Same team started slow  this season under a new coach after a lockout, and now the defense is playing great; I'd be interested to see what this team could have done with this defense playing this good, these receivers developing, and these players getting used to a new coach and playing very well. Before Tebow, the team was 1-1 against Cincy and Green Bay, one a juggernaught, the other surprisingly good. In those games, the defense surrendered an average of 35.5 points and forced 2 total turnovers, while the offense averaged 23.5 points in those two games. They are 4-1 against a slate that includes Miami, KC, Oakland minus their QB, Jets 3 days after a night game, and Detroit, and in those games, their offense averages  In Tebow's victories, the defense is allowing 15.5 points per game; San Fran leads the league at 15.3 points per game. Additionally, they've slightly increased their ability to create turnovers, at causing 6 in 5 games. Their offense has actually Dropped to 17.1 points per game, aided by a punt return TD and a pick-6 (and a fluky 60 yd run by mcgahee that does count in their offensive points).

Basically, their offense has gotten worse with Tebow, and if their defense didn't play so great (which, of course, has nothing to do with Tebow) in their 4 recent wins, then they'd have a much worse record, and if they started Tebow all year, judging by the effect on overall offense, they'd have one less win since the

Isnt it possible that the ball control offense they are playing is helpinmg the defense? They are controlling the clock and consistently winning the field position game.y'd have lost the Cincy game. I think they'd have the same record as they do now if they'd kept Orton.

[MBunge]

Personally since Tebow seems to be the only American capable of drawing on divine miracles routinely we ought to send him to Congress to teach them how to act like adults instead of children and how to do their jobs.

Tebow for dictator in 2012.   I've given up hope. There's just no better way.

Not even Tebow Almighty is up to that task.  What we need to do as a society is get him and Taylor Swift together.  If the product of that union couldn't solve all our problems, then we are well and truly screwed.

Mike

[MBunge]

No, but Tebow is replacing a guy who just 2 seasons ago went 6-0 to start a season with a similar team.

Since they drafted him, Denver is 5-3 when Tebow starts.  I believe they are 4-14 with Tebow on the bench.  Now, those numbers may even out some if Tebow starts the rest of the season, but I think it's kind of ridiculous to try and deny Tebow credit until that actually happens.

Mike

[Eja117]

John Fox tried so hard to lose that game yesterday, but Tebow, and to a lesser extent the defense wouldn't let him.

Quote from Deion Sanders: John Elway has a problem cause this kid is gonna keep winning. He's bringing something to the field not on a stat sheet and that is leadership.

Quote from local radio: At this point doesn't the ownership have to say something to support him? Hasn't he earned that?

Quote from Michael Irvin: The Bible says "Use foolishness to confound the wise" and what we are seeing is foolishness and it is confounding us so called wise men.

Tom Jackson: He's getting better at passing and it is keeping the defense honest enough to open things for the running game.

Many people: Yeah he only hit 9 passes, but he's had only one interception and maybe one fumble and of those 9 passes one was for a TD, and he had 67 yards running, one of which was a big critical run in overtime. These players believe now. They believe they can keep it close and beat anyone. They want to play for him.

It is so funny to watch Merril Hodge try to explain this. On to Skip Bayless, who is probably having the happiest 6 weeks of his life

[WBrownTrophy]

I am VERY interested in seeing the Broncos play an elite defense, or even a team with an elite offense, which may demand higher points from the Broncos offense...if Tebow/Broncos win a game like that (which I don't think it will happen), then it will be very interesting to see what critics say.