Improve the Kings TP Contest Poll (VOTE!)

[Redz]

Derr, I was looking at the options for a couple of minutes trying to figure out if I'd missed that they'd acquired Kenyon Martinn 

[indeedproceed]

Derr, I was looking at the options for a couple of minutes trying to figure out if I'd missed that they'd acquired Kenyon Martinn 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUxR965b4LU&feature=related

[Redz]

If they could keep Thompson out of it I'd like the last one.  Voted for Bosh. Butler & Blatche one.

[Redz]

Derr, I was looking at the options for a couple of minutes trying to figure out if I'd missed that they'd acquired Kenyon Martinn 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUxR965b4LU&feature=related

that's HEDley Lamar

[Lucky17]

I'll submit my vote in a second. First, I'll explain which submissions I can't vote for.

1. Can't endorse any trade for Bosh or Boozer.
Why? Kings don't have a prayer of resigning either before the end of this season, being quite possibly the smallest market team in the league. Both Bosh and Boozer will sign with a team that can give them higher visibility and a chance for a title, in addition to big money. Secondly, why should Sacto mortgage so much for a chance to be destroyed by LA in the playoffs? There's no way they can compete for anything beyond a first-round exit, even with Bosh or Boozer. Better to get a lottery pick in a deep draft, and use their assets for players that will actually be on the roster beyond this season.

2. Can't vote for a trade that simply gives Sacto cap relief.
Why? Partly because of my reasons against the Bosh or Boozer deals: Sacto is simply not a destination for high profile free-agents. No title pretensions, no low taxes, no arena deal; warm weather, sure, but no night life or glamour out in Cowtown. Clearing cap space for this summer’s free agent class certainly won’t get the Kings Amare or Joe Johnson, let along Wade or Bosh. Cap space to bid on free-agents is a costly enterprise: you always overpay for what you get (ask Joe Dumars). Cap space might allow the Kings to add players via trade, but they’d still have to give up something in return, so a cap friendly deal could, at best, only be a precursor to the real deal.

That takes out about half of the proposals. Others I can’t endorse:

3. Can’t vote for a trade for CP3.
Trading CP3 would sound the death knell of the franchise in New Orleans. I don’t think they would ever let him go. He means too much to them. He’s beyond untouchable.

4. Can’t vote for a trade for Rubio.
It’s a daring ploy, but I think it’s too much of a gamble, and I think Martin is worth more than a 1st rounder that likely won’t arrive until 2013 and the rights to the Italian Enigma (who may not arrive any sooner, if at all).

5. Can’t vote for a trade for Gallinari.
How/why do the Knicks agree to this? The Knicks front office loves him. Why give him up to get Curry off the books, when they’d have to take back Nocioni? It just doesn’t scan for me.

I’ll post my actual vote soon.

[PosImpos]

I'll submit my vote in a second. First, I'll explain which submissions I can't vote for.

1. Can't endorse any trade for Bosh or Boozer.
Why? Kings don't have a prayer of resigning either before the end of this season, being quite possibly the smallest market team in the league. Both Bosh and Boozer will sign with a team that can give them higher visibility and a chance for a title, in addition to big money. Secondly, why should Sacto mortgage so much for a chance to be destroyed by LA in the playoffs? There's no way they can compete for anything beyond a first-round exit, even with Bosh or Boozer. Better to get a lottery pick in a deep draft, and use their assets for players that will actually be on the roster beyond this season.

2. Can't vote for a trade that simply gives Sacto cap relief.
Why? Partly because of my reasons against the Bosh or Boozer deals: Sacto is simply not a destination for high profile free-agents. No title pretensions, no low taxes, no arena deal; warm weather, sure, but no night life or glamour out in Cowtown. Clearing cap space for this summer’s free agent class certainly won’t get the Kings Amare or Joe Johnson, let along Wade or Bosh. Cap space to bid on free-agents is a costly enterprise: you always overpay for what you get (ask Joe Dumars). Cap space might allow the Kings to add players via trade, but they’d still have to give up something in return, so a cap friendly deal could, at best, only be a precursor to the real deal.

That takes out about half of the proposals. Others I can’t endorse:

3. Can’t vote for a trade for CP3.
Trading CP3 would sound the death knell of the franchise in New Orleans. I don’t think they would ever let him go. He means too much to them. He’s beyond untouchable.

4. Can’t vote for a trade for Rubio.
It’s a daring ploy, but I think it’s too much of a gamble, and I think Martin is worth more than a 1st rounder that likely won’t arrive until 2013 and the rights to the Italian Enigma (who may not arrive any sooner, if at all).

5. Can’t vote for a trade for Gallinari.
How/why do the Knicks agree to this? The Knicks front office loves him. Why give him up to get Curry off the books, when they’d have to take back Nocioni? It just doesn’t scan for me.

I’ll post my actual vote soon.

All of that makes sense.  I agree.

However, the guidelines of the contest were to improve the Kings.  Presumably that means now and not some distant point in the future.  I'm not saying you should reconsider voting for mine, but when I made my trade my goal was to improve the Kings as much in the short term as possible while still keeping the trade realistic.

My trade allows Philadelphia to trade Dalembert and allows Utah to trade Boozer and Korver.  That's enough to make it plausible. 

Anyway, I think your post sums up why this contest is difficult, almost to the point of impossibility - the Kings are a tiny market team with owners unwilling to spend money.  The only way to "improve" their team is to hope to get lucky with young talent (draft picks).  No free agents want to stay there, and that won't change until they become a much more competitive team.

[Slugger]

I voted for the Knick trade, proposed by Tw1x990.

Although the Knicks front office would have to be impressed by Gallinari, you gotta think an extra 8 million in cap space to play with this offseason is pretty big.

Sure, they take on Nocioni's contract, but surely Noce would be easily tradeable (The C's persued him?)

And, Sacto probably wont be a prime free agent destination spot this upcoming season, so when Currys contract has expired, they may actually have formed a solid young nucleus with Evans, Martin, Thompson, Gallinari, Caspi etc. This could be enough to draw a nice big man in the 2011 free agent class?

[Lucky17]

Remaining proposals to consider:

1. Martin, Garcia, and Thompson, for Jefferson, Sessions, and Jawai
I’d like this one a lot, if it didn’t involve Thompson and Garcia. I still don’t think Hawes is quite ready for prime-time, so I think keeping JT (as PF alongside Jefferson) is essential. Garcia is a fantastic energy guy, a Swiss-army type that can do a lot (steals, 3s, blocks). I think the Kings give up too much/get too little in return, and as the OP himself confessed, the bench becomes paper-thin.

2. Martin, Garcia, and 1st rounder for Jeff Green, James Harden and Etan Thomas.
Would like to have heard a case made for this one by the OP. Again, I think the Kings give up a lot here. Martin is the player Harden wants to be, perhaps best-case scenario. Would you trade Garcia and a lottery pick for Jeff Green? I wouldn't.

3. Martin and Nocioni for Josh Howard and Jason Terry.
I like this one. A pretty good return for Martin. Terry is a great complement to Evans in the backcourt. Howard is a talent, but also has injury and headspace issues. But neither contract is long term, so Sacramento could test drive this combination for a season before deciding to resign Howard and/or exercise the team option on Terry’s contract. If they want to move on, Terry and Howard become great trade chips. Most importantly, Sacto keeps all its young talent in this deal.

4. Kevin Martin, and expiring contracts of Kenny Thomas, Sean May, and Sergio Rodriguez for Andre Iguodala, Samuel Dalembert, and JJ Hickson
My own submission, so I’m biased. I thought I made a great case for this deal, but it hasn’t received a single vote. If that’s due to concerns about plausibility, I’m not sure how this proposal, based on persistent rumors of McGrady for Iggy and Dallie, is any less plausible than the Gallinari or CP3 proposals. If it’s about net gain for the Kings, they turn Martin into a superathletic wing and a defensive center with one year left on his contract (huge trade chip next season), while keeping all their other young personnel intact. Defensively, a five-man unit of Evans, Iggy, Casspi or Garcia, Thompson, and Dalembert would be sick, but would not struggle to score. Improved defense and slight decrease in scoring is a net gain over keeping Martin.

I think it’s poor taste for vote for myself here, so I vote for the Sacto-Dallas trade.

[Edgar]

Remaining proposals to consider:

1. Martin, Garcia, and Thompson, for Jefferson, Sessions, and Jawai
I’d like this one a lot, if it didn’t involve Thompson and Garcia. I still don’t think Hawes is quite ready for prime-time, so I think keeping JT (as PF alongside Jefferson) is essential. Garcia is a fantastic energy guy, a Swiss-army type that can do a lot (steals, 3s, blocks). I think the Kings give up too much/get too little in return, and as the OP himself confessed, the bench becomes paper-thin.

2. Martin, Garcia, and 1st rounder for Jeff Green, James Harden and Etan Thomas.
Would like to have heard a case made for this one by the OP. Again, I think the Kings give up a lot here. Martin is the player Harden wants to be, perhaps best-case scenario. Would you trade Garcia and a lottery pick for Jeff Green? I wouldn't.

3. Martin and Nocioni for Josh Howard and Jason Terry.
I like this one. A pretty good return for Martin. Terry is a great complement to Evans in the backcourt. Howard is a talent, but also has injury and headspace issues. But neither contract is long term, so Sacramento could test drive this combination for a season before deciding to resign Howard and/or exercise the team option on Terry’s contract. If they want to move on, Terry and Howard become great trade chips. Most importantly, Sacto keeps all its young talent in this deal.

4. Kevin Martin, and expiring contracts of Kenny Thomas, Sean May, and Sergio Rodriguez for Andre Iguodala, Samuel Dalembert, and JJ Hickson
My own submission, so I’m biased. I thought I made a great case for this deal, but it hasn’t received a single vote. If that’s due to concerns about plausibility, I’m not sure how this proposal, based on persistent rumors of McGrady for Iggy and Dallie, is any less plausible than the Gallinari or CP3 proposals. If it’s about net gain for the Kings, they turn Martin into a superathletic wing and a defensive center with one year left on his contract (huge trade chip next season), while keeping all their other young personnel intact. Defensively, a five-man unit of Evans, Iggy, Casspi or Garcia, Thompson, and Dalembert would be sick, but would not struggle to score. Improved defense and slight decrease in scoring is a net gain over keeping Martin.

I think it’s poor taste for vote for myself here, so I vote for the Sacto-Dallas trade.

Nocioni for Giddens , Tony and House.?

[PosImpos]

4. Kevin Martin, and expiring contracts of Kenny Thomas, Sean May, and Sergio Rodriguez for Andre Iguodala, Samuel Dalembert, and JJ Hickson
My own submission, so I’m biased. I thought I made a great case for this deal, but it hasn’t received a single vote. If that’s due to concerns about plausibility, I’m not sure how this proposal, based on persistent rumors of McGrady for Iggy and Dallie, is any less plausible than the Gallinari or CP3 proposals. If it’s about net gain for the Kings, they turn Martin into a superathletic wing and a defensive center with one year left on his contract (huge trade chip next season), while keeping all their other young personnel intact. Defensively, a five-man unit of Evans, Iggy, Casspi or Garcia, Thompson, and Dalembert would be sick, but would not struggle to score. Improved defense and slight decrease in scoring is a net gain over keeping Martin.

Must have missed that one.  Given your explanation I probably would have voted for it.  Too bad I can't change my vote.

[Lucky17]

All of that makes sense.  I agree.

However, the guidelines of the contest were to improve the Kings.  Presumably that means now and not some distant point in the future.  I'm not saying you should reconsider voting for mine, but when I made my trade my goal was to improve the Kings as much in the short term as possible while still keeping the trade realistic.

My trade allows Philadelphia to trade Dalembert and allows Utah to trade Boozer and Korver.  That's enough to make it plausible. 

Anyway, I think your post sums up why this contest is difficult, almost to the point of impossibility - the Kings are a tiny market team with owners unwilling to spend money.  The only way to "improve" their team is to hope to get lucky with young talent (draft picks).  No free agents want to stay there, and that won't change until they become a much more competitive team.

I thought yours was the best of the Bosh/Boozer proposals. But ultimately, I thought it boiled down to a lot of talent in Martin, Thompson, and Green for Dalembert and Brewer, once Boozer bolted. Brewer is nice, but is he much better than Garcia or Casspi? I thought it would leave the roster out of balance.

[Lucky17]

I voted for the Knick trade, proposed by Tw1x990.

Although the Knicks front office would have to be impressed by Gallinari, you gotta think an extra 8 million in cap space to play with this offseason is pretty big.

Sure, they take on Nocioni's contract, but surely Noce would be easily tradeable (The C's persued him?)

And, Sacto probably wont be a prime free agent destination spot this upcoming season, so when Currys contract has expired, they may actually have formed a solid young nucleus with Evans, Martin, Thompson, Gallinari, Caspi etc. This could be enough to draw a nice big man in the 2011 free agent class?

My disclaimer about cap space also applies to the Knicks. They'll have a completely gutted roster next season. Gallinari is one of the few starting-caliber talents they have locked up on the cheap for next year. As many have wondered, is Lebron going to leave Cleveland for New York, if the Knicks have a worse supporting cast?

If the proposal had Hill going out, instead of Gallo, I might have voted for it.

[PosImpos]

All of that makes sense.  I agree.

However, the guidelines of the contest were to improve the Kings.  Presumably that means now and not some distant point in the future.  I'm not saying you should reconsider voting for mine, but when I made my trade my goal was to improve the Kings as much in the short term as possible while still keeping the trade realistic.

My trade allows Philadelphia to trade Dalembert and allows Utah to trade Boozer and Korver.  That's enough to make it plausible. 

Anyway, I think your post sums up why this contest is difficult, almost to the point of impossibility - the Kings are a tiny market team with owners unwilling to spend money.  The only way to "improve" their team is to hope to get lucky with young talent (draft picks).  No free agents want to stay there, and that won't change until they become a much more competitive team.

I thought yours was the best of the Bosh/Boozer proposals. But ultimately, I thought it boiled down to a lot of talent in Martin, Thompson, and Green for Dalembert and Brewer, once Boozer bolted. Brewer is nice, but is he much better than Garcia or Casspi? I thought it would leave the roster out of balance.

Yeah, I agree.  Without Boozer, that roster would certainly be out of balance.  If Sacramento either a) had a chance of resigning Boozer and Brewer or b) had a chance of signing a solid free agent with that $14 million of expiring money, it would make a lot more sense.  But you're right, Sacramento probably doesn't have a chance of doing either of those things.

[indeedproceed]

We need mo votes! Rock the vote kids!


2 more people vote and I'm calling it.

[indeedproceed]

10 TP's for the next vote + explanation