I addressed this same thing at the end of the game thread last night. Someone, can't remember who, sorry, was trying to point out what a great game Tony had because of his +/- stat of +14. I love most stats but find this particular one foolish because it is more indicative of what the other 9 players on the court are doing at the time you are on the court and less indicative of what you are doing on the court.
So anyway, Tony was being praised for his team high stat and being the only player on the bench who did anything last night. Well, like you said Roy, Tony had a good first half. But he had a pretty bad second half which accounted for a fairly decent to okay overall night for him yet the Tony lovers were discussing his play like he just posted some unreal quadruple double and at the same time denigrating the play of his fellow bench players, just to make Tony look better.
The bench as a whole was solid. Their first half was extremely good. Tony played as well as the other bench players and they all seemed to have collective better first halves than second halves. All I want is for people to look at the big picture with Tony and not to put down the play of his fellow Celtics just to try to make Tony look better.
He had a lot of very typical Tony moments in that game, good and bad. But that is why a hate him. He never grew as a player and he is a dumb basketball player. He can have all the great to mediocre nights he wants, I'm still not going to like him or support him because I can't stand dumb basketball. It's like running sharp metal down a chalkboard to me.
Cross court passes that get stolen and then fouling a player so weakly that he still can easily hit a layup on the ensuing fast break. Palming violation while dribbling the ball over half court with no one anywhere near you except the best PG this team has seen in 35 years screaming for you to give him the ball. Loosing control of the ball while driving the lane causing the ball to weakly roll to the feet of an opponent.
All of these things happen every game with Tony. I can';t take it any long. % plus seasons of seeing these things has made me numb and indifferent to anything else he does on the court anymore.
Nick, there's a kind of intellectual disconnect between exhorting your fellow C-bloggers to 'look at the big picture' and then proceeding to list only the bad plays Tony has committed, concluding smugly that "all of these things happen every game".
I mean, if we were truly 'looking at the big picture' would Tony really generate the kind of irrational hate you and Roy (among others) have perfected the last 2 years?
As someone else so correctly noted, the amount of praise that may from time to time overrate Tony is only matched (and sometimes exceeded) by the irrational player hate that underrates what he brings to the floor. You wanna talk 'big picture'? Then drop your irrational hate.
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Seeing the big picture involves judging a player's performance not only in isolation--how they perform in one-on-one offensive/defensive situations--but also holistically by factoring in the impact of how and when a player is used. Few of the Tony-haters manage this--instead they judge in isolation and ignore the milieu of the performance.
We all know Eddie House--for all the good he does when he's making shots--can't play point guard. Yet few make the connection that Eddie's lack of playmaking ability has FORCED Tony to play out-of-position since 2007 as the 2nd unit's defacto point guard, a position which does not suit his talents. Sure, he can dribble and pass better than House, but the added responsibility of running a team and negotiating the dichotomy between when to pass and shoot (which even the great PGs struggle at) makes him much less effective, JUST LIKE EDDIE HOUSE. But, unlike Eddie House, Tony has yet--since his recovery from knee surgery in 2007--to enjoy the benefit of playing with at least an adequate point guard. As such, not only has he been on a perpetual comeback from multiple injuries over the last 3 seasons, he's had to do it while playing out of position. If you don't understand that, you have no claim to the 'big picture.'
So you scold me for not looking at the big picture on Tony. Intellectually berate my irrational hatred of his game. Yet instead of defending ANYTHING about the man, you attack Eddie House and I should take what you say seriously.
Sadly, you still don't get it, Nick. There's a reason I didn't say anything about the man. It was because I was pointing out your failure to account for the context of TA's performance since his knee injury. That has nothing to do with the man--it has everything to do with how he's been used and with whom he's been paired with.
I didn't attack Eddie--I just pointed out how he's not a point guard and how that deficiency has in turn resulted in TA being asked to do too many point guard things the last 3 seasons, mostly to the overall detriment of his performance. Yet, you keep harping on his performance--that's only one part of the 'big picture'. The other part is the
context of that performance, something which you continue to ignore. You brought up 'big picture' concept, but only to dismiss it strawman-like, ironically and purposefully ignoring the context of Tony's performance like it's not a part of the 'big picture'. It's not only a part, it's a big part of the 'big picture.'
Here's the big picture over 5 years.
He's a turnover machine, nothing specific, just his turnover rate is ungodly high over a "big picture" 5 years.
He has a pathetic assist to turnover ratio and might be one of the few players in the league with a career assist to turnover ratio below 1.00. Worse yet, the most likely other culprits in this category are all big men. He has this particular statistical oddity as a guard. That tells me he is a bad passer and can't handle the ball and/or picks up lots of offensive fouls. BTW he does both. And has for the "big picture" entirety of his career.
Part of Tony's turnover problem stems from playing out of position as the de facto point guard on the 2nd team. Put him with a real point guard, limit his touches to scoring opportunities, finishing opportunities on the break and two-dribble drive high post opportunities and his turnovers wouldn't be as glaring, nor occur at as high a rate.
If Tony played more than 30 MPG he would probably foul out of 40% of the games he played in. His fouls per minute is atrocious and always has been.
Not true. TA's Fouls/36 minutes is 4.2 for his career.
Further, TA usually draws the other team's top perimeter player, meaning he's going to get more fouls per 36 minutes than, say, Eddie House, who's often too far out of position to even foul somebody.
Why? The "big picture" tells me because he plays with his body and not his mind. He doesn't think the game and never has. I guarantee you within two weeks he will go for someone's head fake on an outside shot and foul them at least twice. He still hasn't learned anything.
Ray Allen has gone for more headfakes in that last 2 seasons than Tony. So has Paul Pierce. TA's had some high profile miscues in terms of going for a headfake, but not any more than or less than anyone else. Harping on a minor part of the game, when instances are less than probably 20 in his entire career, is yet another example of the isolated, non-holistic nature of your evaluation of TA's game.
He dribbles looking at the floor, has a bad handle, doesn't space properly on the fast break or know when to give up the ball. His outside shot is flat and his form is bad and often off balance. He is a good one on one pressure defender but is often his worse enemy because he reaches in too much or is too aggressive. And, sorry, but he's not a good team defender, he's average at best in recognizing rotations and switches and often when off the ball gets caught losing his man going back door on him because he's too busy playing the passing lanes and watching for a steal rather than playing his man.
Again, his dribbling problems could be minimized by playing him off the ball--yet Eddie's presence the last 3 seasons has made that impossible.
TA's defense is similar to Rondo's in the sense that he gambles too much at times, and gets out of position. These tendencies have been exacerbated by his injuries problems and the amount of court time he's lost over the last 3 seasons. If he could stay healthy, and was afforded consistent minutes, I believe these tendencies would lessen.
How's that for the "big picture"? Do I have it about right? Because 5 years later, Tony is what he is. He's about the same player that came out of Oklahoma State with less athleticism because he can't stay healthy and has gotten into to many injury situations, some from his our idiocy. He is a guy that will thrive on a bad team and be able to make a living playing basketball but has no right getting playing time on a team with complex schemes and plays where thinking the game is as important as playing the game.
Again, you and your evaluation pay no mind to how Tony's been used the last 3 seasons and how that usage has affected his performance; therefore, your 'big picture' fails miserably because it lacks perspective.
You've got a handle on the 'how'--but you ignore the 'why' and how the 'why' ultimately informs 'how'.
Topic: Marquis out Tuesday, Tony in? (Read 24880 times)