I'm begining to dislike Rasheed as a Celtic.

[Chris]

I still love Sheed as a Celtic.  I just dislike the overall tendency of this whole team to get complacent, and decide to have a 3 point shootout every game.  The number of forced 3's has increased dramatically over the last week and a half, and it has been a teamwide epidemic.

where we're these concerns in 2008 when we shot more 3 pointers / 100 than we do this year? was it ok because posey was taking them?

I mean, this idea that we've suddenly become a three point shooting team is ridiculous. We have always been a three point shooting team. People just don't like that a center/PF is now one of our three point shooters.

(credit to scoop in another thread)

Boston Celtics 2007/2008:
3PTA per game - 19
3PTA/FGA ratio - 24.9%
3PTA per 100 possessions - 21.2

Boston Celtics 2009/2010:
3PTA per game - 18.2
3PTA/FGA ratio - 23.8%
3PTA per 100 poss. - 20

We are nearly spot on with what we shot, per 100, to what we did in the championship season. When you have arguably the best three point shooter of all time in ray, and a plethra of other good three point shooters in paul, eddie, and sheed you will shoot alot of threes when the other team sags to cover a slasher.

The only difference is posey's spot has been taken by sheed, and they shoot roughly the same percentage.

People have talked them self into this the same way they have talked themselves into believing, just as a counter factual example, that vince carter misses a huge amount of games each year.

Both are fun to harp on, neither is supported by fact.

I have no problem with the number of 3's.  I have a problem with them taking challenged 3's that are not in the flow of the offense. 

For the first few games, the C's were getting a lot of wide open 3's.  Therefore they made them. 

Recently however, they have continued to take the 3's, but they have stopped being so wide open.  Teams have stopped leaving the shooters so much, partly because of adjustments from scouting, and partly because the C's have stopped penetrating like they were earlier in the season, which opened up the outside.

What I am arguing can not be shown with stats.  You have to watch the game, and see where the shots are being taken.

[crownsy]

I still love Sheed as a Celtic.  I just dislike the overall tendency of this whole team to get complacent, and decide to have a 3 point shootout every game.  The number of forced 3's has increased dramatically over the last week and a half, and it has been a teamwide epidemic.

where we're these concerns in 2008 when we shot more 3 pointers / 100 than we do this year? was it ok because posey was taking them?

I mean, this idea that we've suddenly become a three point shooting team is ridiculous. We have always been a three point shooting team. People just don't like that a center/PF is now one of our three point shooters.

(credit to scoop in another thread)

Boston Celtics 2007/2008:
3PTA per game - 19
3PTA/FGA ratio - 24.9%
3PTA per 100 possessions - 21.2

Boston Celtics 2009/2010:
3PTA per game - 18.2
3PTA/FGA ratio - 23.8%
3PTA per 100 poss. - 20

We are nearly spot on with what we shot, per 100, to what we did in the championship season. When you have arguably the best three point shooter of all time in ray, and a plethra of other good three point shooters in paul, eddie, and sheed you will shoot alot of threes when the other team sags to cover a slasher.

The only difference is posey's spot has been taken by sheed, and they shoot roughly the same percentage.

People have talked them self into this the same way they have talked themselves into believing, just as a counter factual example, that vince carter misses a huge amount of games each year.

Both are fun to harp on, neither is supported by fact.

I have no problem with the number of 3's.  I have a problem with them taking challenged 3's that are not in the flow of the offense. 

For the first few games, the C's were getting a lot of wide open 3's.  Therefore they made them. 

Recently however, they have continued to take the 3's, but they have stopped being so wide open.  Teams have stopped leaving the shooters so much, partly because of adjustments from scouting, and partly because the C's have stopped penetrating like they were earlier in the season, which opened up the outside.

What I am arguing can not be shown with stats.  You have to watch the game, and see where the shots are being taken.

I have missed a few games from class, but I have seen most of the games, and outside sheed, most of the three's still look pretty open.

The only game i saw where a team defended the three line well was Atlanta. they really did a good job of limiting penetration and sticking to shooters. In indy, we just missed them early and then missed them late.

I'm much more concerned about the defense than the offense, I think it's been pretty good outside of Atlanta and Indy, where we just didn't attack enough.

[wdleehi]

In the regular season, Davis's rebounding rate of last year is a little better then Wallace's rate this year.

But Wallace's scoring rate is a lot better.


Wallace's adj shooting rate is .063 better.



Wallace is the better defender.




Let's be honest, the Celtics got Wallace to do three things.  

1) be a tall backup to Perk
2) play good defense
3) shoot from the outside to open up the inside.


That's what he has been doing.  


If we are looking for the rebounding issues, look at the following players who have a lower rate this season vs. last season

KG
Perk
Pierce
Rondo
House
Ray




Seems to be a team wide problem.  

As a team, they are not attacking the boards like they did last year.

[goz421]

I think we have some posters here who are very young with little knowledge of NBA history.  If you watched what Sheed did in Detroit you know he is a valuable commodity which will pay dividends late into the season.  Right now he is finding his way and is in a little slump.  He will come out of it.  The more he plays himself into shape the better he will be.  He will shoot a lot of 3's, but as he finds his legs this will become more of a problem for teams.  The game he scored 21 in limited minutes remember how easily the C"s cruised.  7 foooter's with that range can not be defended.  Shooters have longer carrers because they have a specialty the fall back on.  He also brings a toughness.

As for the refs I wish he would lay off.  Yet I watch most his complaints and they usually are legit.  He just can't let it go.  To me I see how blatently bad the NBA officials are.  I can not for the life of me figure how the Pats can have all of congress after them for basically an interpretation of rules.  Yet in the NBA an official openly comes out about how crooked it is and it quickly swept under the rug.

It's all about the money.  IMO, has ruined the NBA.

[Fafnir]

I think we have some posters here who are very young with little knowledge of NBA history.

Thats a dangerous and inaccurate assumption about most of posters.

[mgent]

I love Rasheed.

People on this site flip sides more than anything i've ever seen.

[goz421]

Trust me,  I have an extensive background in basketball, and I can tell a lot from assumptions people make in their posts.  If they are not young, they are then not very knowledgeable about the game.

[JHTruth]

Sheed has his annoying traits but I'm so glad he's on our team. He's not the most overtly intense guy in the world but he's great off the bench. He would be lousy as a starter but for all the talk of his lack of intensity the energy of the team ALWAYS picks up when he comes in. Half the time the starters are sleepwalking through the game and then Sheed comes in and the whole energy changes. Just because he's not one the type of guy to scream after every routine play doesn't mean he's not intense...

[wdleehi]

Trust me,  I have an extensive background in basketball, and I can tell a lot from assumptions people make in their posts.  If they are not young, they are then not very knowledgeable about the game.

Self proclaimed experts usually don't do well around here.  


And really, it isn't hard to have a discusion without having to take shots at other's age or knowledge.  That doesn't lead to great discusion.  That leads to pointless arguements, name callings and then, clean up actions by the staff.

[crownsy]

Trust me,  I have an extensive background in basketball, and I can tell a lot from assumptions people make in their posts.  If they are not young, they are then not very knowledgeable about the game.

Trust me, talking down to your fellow posters about their level of basketball knowledge based on random assumptions about them and their level of familiarity with the game is not a good way to court the benefit of the doubt you seek in your opinions on the subject.

In fact, it does the exact opposite. I'm already fairly annoyed by it. Instead, it pays to articulate and support your points, not just tell us that you have a great knowledge of the game and assume the rest of us don't.

[Casperian]

Trust me,  I have an extensive background in basketball, and I can tell a lot from assumptions people make in their posts.  If they are not young, they are then not very knowledgeable about the game.

Too bad that Basketball knowledge isn`t everything. Basketball knowledge is the reason why NBA teams pick Marvin Williams ahead of Chris Paul.
The reasons against Rasheed have more to do with common sense, and I can tell a lot from your assumption that his play in Detroit would be a good indicator for his play here. After all, we´re talking about a 36-year-old man who is on the decline for quite some time now.

[crownsy]

Trust me,  I have an extensive background in basketball, and I can tell a lot from assumptions people make in their posts.  If they are not young, they are then not very knowledgeable about the game.

Too bad that Basketball knowledge isn`t everything. Basketball knowledge is the reason why NBA teams pick Marvin Williams ahead of Chris Paul.
The reasons against Rasheed have more to do with common sense, and I can tell a lot from your assumption that his play in Detroit would be a good indicator for his play here. After all, we´re talking about a 36-year-old man who is on the decline for quite some time now.

I agree on the first part about basketball knowledge, but disagree on your assessment of sheed. he fills a valuable role on this team. He's shot poorly for 3 games, but he's played good, though certainly not great defense since he got here.

He's also had games where his spacing has made our offense unstoppable, I.E the first 7.

Sheed is fine on this team. He is a victim of over-hype. I feel like when we signed him, people though we were getting KG-Lite. Sheed's not that guy. He does three things well:

1.Spaces floor and drags big centers well out of the lane (key vs. howard, shaq, bynum, ect) allowing guards to drive

2.Good 3Pt shooter whos release is nearly unblockable

3.Smart defender who lacks the athleticism to block a ton of shots, but has a high defensive IQ.

People who were expecting him to come in and get 10+ rebounds a night while banging in the low post have misunderstood why we brought him in off the bench. Thier disappointed in there own assessment of the player, not sheed as he has been since about 2004.

[Casperian]

People who were expecting him to come in and get 10+ rebounds a night while banging in the low post have misunderstood why we brought him in off the bench. Thier disappointed in there own assessment of the player, not sheed as he has been since about 2004.
 

Agreed.
As I´ve admitted before, I couldn´t watch the first 8 games of the season, so my opinion comes solely from his recent play, and that is exactly what I´ve expected when we signed him.

There are several reasons against Sheed, imo, but they are all arguable.
The thing is, we overpaid big time for his services. The full MLE for 3 years is way too much, I´m questioning if he´s even worth the full MLE this season.
EDIT: As someone else said, it´s one thing to take a gamble on him, but to court him the way we did? We´re now stuck with him for the next years.

This mother of an albatross will cost us dearly in the next years, imo. If the Nocioni rumors had any legs, one could argue it already costs us this season.

[crownsy]

People who were expecting him to come in and get 10+ rebounds a night while banging in the low post have misunderstood why we brought him in off the bench.

Agreed.
As I´ve admitted before, I couldn´t watch the first 8 games of the season, so my opinion comes solely from his recent play, and that is exactly what I´ve expected when we signed him.

The thing is, we overpaid big time for his services. The full MLE for 3 years is way too much, I´m questioning if he´s even worth the full MLE this season.

This mother of an albatross will cost us dearly in the next years, imo. If the Nocioni rumor had any legs, one could argue it already costs us this season.

Count me as one not enamored with nocioni at all. I don't see what he really would have brought us other than more three point shooting, which we already have enough of. He's a average defender, and thats giving him alot of credit. Daniels is fine for what we need.

and the MLE is not an "albatros" to me. That's the same exact contract that the majority of this blog was in favor of paying posey for 4 years. At the time it was argued the contract "didn't count" because we get one every year, ergo, it was simply a good move.

We didn't make that move because posey is not a MLE player, as he is proving nightly in NO.

 Sheed is. He's worth our exception for three years, the last of which he will probably be out of here as an expiring contract. He provides an incredible valuable spacing presence on the floor, people seem to forget, already, that for the first 7 games that spacing helped our slashers and offensive in general look like gangbusters.

The whole offense is in a funk at the moment, not sure why it all falls on sheed except that he's a big man who shoots, and basketball purists hate that, and thus he must be the problem.

and People talked all about how posey's potential deal really wouldn't have been for 4 years, since the last year is a huge plus for a team to trade, but now sheed's isn't because no one will want his expiring year? the contract is fine, so is the player.

[goz421]

I never looked to it as talking down I saw it as calling it as it is.  Sheed was brought in to fill a role which he has accepted and is doing fine.  He has had a few off games, but so has Paul Pierce and KG, but no one is talking about them.  Comparing Sheed to Scal or even big Baby to me is laughable.  Sheed, is a proven champ, he has won on many levels, he has been an all star.  He is in the same breathe with the other big three.  IMO, threads like this are very premature. I still think we will see this move bring us another banner.  IMO Doc could even be playing him more and pairing him alongside KG.  I anticipate as the season wears on we will see more of this.

He is 36, and this is his last go.  Yet his skill set brings us something very valuable.