I'm begining to dislike Rasheed as a Celtic.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth #20]

As long as he keeps pulling the 3 finger arm pump after he hits a 3, SHEEEEED is good in my book. Love that move, its like cocking back a 3 pointer gun, bladow!

[Casperian]

Count me as one not enamored with nocioni at all. I don't see what he really would have brought us other than more three point shooting, which we already have enough of. He's a average defender, and thats giving him alot of credit. Daniels is fine for what we need.

and the MLE is not an "albatros" to me. That's the same exact contract that the majority of this blog was in favor of paying posey for 4 years. At the time it was argued the contract "didn't count" because we get one every year, ergo, it was simply a good move.

We didn't make that move because posey is not a MLE player, as he is proving nightly in NO.

 Sheed is. He's worth our exception for three years, the last of which he will probably be out of here as an expiring contract. He provides an incredible valuable spacing presence on the floor, people seem to forget, already, that for the first 7 games that spacing helped our slashers and offensive in general look like gangbusters.

The whole offense is in a funk at the moment, not sure why it all falls on sheed except that he's a big man who shoots, and basketball purists hate that, and thus he must be the problem.

and People talked all about how posey's potential deal really wouldn't have been for 4 years, since the last year is a huge plus for a team to trade, but now sheed's isn't because no one will want his expiring year? the contract is fine, so is the player.

Exchange Nocioni for "Player X who can help us do Y".
I won´t discuss the Posey argument. I will say that I disagree with you, an still think it was a mistake not to sign him, but that´s a whole different topic.

I´m not buying the "he helped our spacing for the first 7 games" argument, to be honest.
It´s early in the season, and the first few games, teams didn´t know how to play us. They will know it in the playoffs.

[crownsy]

Count me as one not enamored with nocioni at all. I don't see what he really would have brought us other than more three point shooting, which we already have enough of. He's a average defender, and thats giving him alot of credit. Daniels is fine for what we need.

and the MLE is not an "albatros" to me. That's the same exact contract that the majority of this blog was in favor of paying posey for 4 years. At the time it was argued the contract "didn't count" because we get one every year, ergo, it was simply a good move.

We didn't make that move because posey is not a MLE player, as he is proving nightly in NO.

 Sheed is. He's worth our exception for three years, the last of which he will probably be out of here as an expiring contract. He provides an incredible valuable spacing presence on the floor, people seem to forget, already, that for the first 7 games that spacing helped our slashers and offensive in general look like gangbusters.

The whole offense is in a funk at the moment, not sure why it all falls on sheed except that he's a big man who shoots, and basketball purists hate that, and thus he must be the problem.

and People talked all about how posey's potential deal really wouldn't have been for 4 years, since the last year is a huge plus for a team to trade, but now sheed's isn't because no one will want his expiring year? the contract is fine, so is the player.

Exchange Nocioni for "Player X who can help us do Y".
I won´t discuss the Posey argument. I will say that I disagree with you, an still think it was a mistake not to sign him, but that´s a whole different topic.

I´m not buying the "he helped our spacing for the first 7 games" argument, to be honest.
It´s early in the season, and the first few games, teams didn´t know how to play us. They will do in the playoffs.

why do i have to change noccioni for x or y? not every deal will involve a player with a similar contract. plus the deal was a rumor, nothing else.


Fair enough cas, but dismissing 7 games that don't in anyway back up your assessments to focus on the last games where the entire team has played subpar is just as uncompelling to me as well.

And i think the posey argument is right on point. Why would the posey contract, which would be for all intents an purposes the same contract at this point (MLE for 3 more years) not be an albatross but a contract of the same type for a better player is?

[Atzar]

I never looked to it as talking down I saw it as calling it as it is.  Sheed was brought in to fill a role which he has accepted and is doing fine.  He has had a few off games, but so has Paul Pierce and KG, but no one is talking about them.  Comparing Sheed to Scal or even big Baby to me is laughable.  Sheed, is a proven champ, he has won on many levels, he has been an all star.  He is in the same breathe with the other big three.  IMO, threads like this are very premature. I still think we will see this move bring us another banner.  IMO Doc could even be playing him more and pairing him alongside KG.  I anticipate as the season wears on we will see more of this.

He is 36, and this is his last go.  Yet his skill set brings us something very valuable.

So he's a HOFer?  He took a bad team to the conference finals?  He can score 25+ per game, but he limits his own offense to better fit in with his teammates?  He was the leader of the Pistons?

Sheed was lucky to be on a heck of a team in Detroit.  If he can put up numbers like that, he doesn't - and never has.  He's not a leader like the rest of the big 3 have proven to be - the leader of his Pistons team was Chauncey Billups, followed probably by Ben Wallace.  Effort and ambition have always been question marks for him - he's been under fire his whole career for seeming to have the skillset of a superstar, but the production of a roleplayer.

Look, Sheed is what he is.  He's a complimentary player, has been his whole career.  I like what he brings to the team, and I view him as an excellent acquisition.  But let's not act like we brought in another 'big 3'-caliber player, somebody who's setting his own stats aside for the better of the team, because that's not what's happening here.

With that said, how are you questioning his effort, Moiso?  He's played good D and he's been where he's supposed to be on offense.  He was rolling around in the paint last night for a loose ball screaming "timeout" to get us an extra possession.  Clearly the sign of a lack of effort and hustle.  You claim it wears off on his teammates, and yet his unit is normally the one responsible when we pull away for wins.  If something is rubbing off on his teammates, it's definitely not his lack of effort and intensity.

[Casperian]

And i think the posey argument is right on point. Why would the posey contract, which would be for all intents an purposes the same contract at this point (MLE for 3 more years) not be an albatross but a contract of the same type for a better player is?

Because my assessment of James Posey is different to the majority of this blog.

When we discuss new signings like Sheed (or Marbury), people are quick to point out that playing for a contender could rejuvenate their game and that it´s about "more than just the numbers". When we discuss Posey, we look solely at numbers and forget his history. He played great for the Miami championship team, but disappeared in the following season (a contract season), which was the reason why we got him for peanuts in 2007.
We all know he played great for us in our championship season, even if it seems that most of us have already forgotten. Now he´s in the dog house, again.

Posey is what he is, a very versatile, tough role-player who plays the right way. He allowed us to play different units, and his skill set was a big reason why these units worked (see exhibit A: the 2008 bench). He is your typical "only valuable to a contender" player, he won´t go out of his way to take over games. Simply put, he plays as good as the rest of the team allows.
There is more (about tradability, dynamics on the court, etc.) but I really don´t have the time or desire to talk about Posey anymore.

Seriously, this isn´t about Pose, it´s about Sheed, and I think we should agree to disagree. Let´s just wait a few more games before we decide if he can still help us win a championship.

[goz421]

I never looked to it as talking down I saw it as calling it as it is.  Sheed was brought in to fill a role which he has accepted and is doing fine.  He has had a few off games, but so has Paul Pierce and KG, but no one is talking about them.  Comparing Sheed to Scal or even big Baby to me is laughable.  Sheed, is a proven champ, he has won on many levels, he has been an all star.  He is in the same breathe with the other big three.  IMO, threads like this are very premature. I still think we will see this move bring us another banner.  IMO Doc could even be playing him more and pairing him alongside KG.  I anticipate as the season wears on we will see more of this.

He is 36, and this is his last go.  Yet his skill set brings us something very valuable.

So he's a HOFer?  He took a bad team to the conference finals?  He can score 25+ per game, but he limits his own offense to better fit in with his teammates?  He was the leader of the Pistons?

Sheed was lucky to be on a heck of a team in Detroit.  If he can put up numbers like that, he doesn't - and never has.  He's not a leader like the rest of the big 3 have proven to be - the leader of his Pistons team was Chauncey Billups, followed probably by Ben Wallace.  Effort and ambition have always been question marks for him - he's been under fire his whole career for seeming to have the skillset of a superstar, but the production of a roleplayer.

Look, Sheed is what he is.  He's a complimentary player, has been his whole career.  I like what he brings to the team, and I view him as an excellent acquisition.  But let's not act like we brought in another 'big 3'-caliber player, somebody who's setting his own stats aside for the better of the team, because that's not what's happening here.

With that said, how are you questioning his effort, Moiso?  He's played good D and he's been where he's supposed to be on offense.  He was rolling around in the paint last night for a loose ball screaming "timeout" to get us an extra possession.  Clearly the sign of a lack of effort and hustle.  You claim it wears off on his teammates, and yet his unit is normally the one responsible when we pull away for wins.  If something is rubbing off on his teammates, it's definitely not his lack of effort and intensity.

Stop looking at number sand look at what players equate as greatness.  Rings?  I agree Chauncy and Rip were probably the biggest leaders in that run, but Sheed brought something the others didn't.  Big man who can stretch the D is an intangible in the NBA.  Sheed was also a hell of a college player.


I never said Sheed was a HOF.  I said he is up there with the big three.  How many rings?

[Casperian]

Stop looking at number sand look at what players equate as greatness.  Rings?  I agree Chauncy and Rip were probably the biggest leaders in that run, but Sheed brought something the others didn't.  Big man who can stretch the D is an intangible in the NBA.  Sheed was also a hell of a college player.


I never said Sheed was a HOF.  I said he is up there with the big three.  How many rings?

Less than Horry or Kerr, what´s your point?

Imo, the bolded part is correct, and exactly the problem.
Big men who can´t rebound or play inside are a liability. Everyone is so enarmoured with Sheed´s intangibles, that they´re happy to overlook his lack of tangibles.

[Atzar]

I never looked to it as talking down I saw it as calling it as it is.  Sheed was brought in to fill a role which he has accepted and is doing fine.  He has had a few off games, but so has Paul Pierce and KG, but no one is talking about them.  Comparing Sheed to Scal or even big Baby to me is laughable.  Sheed, is a proven champ, he has won on many levels, he has been an all star.  He is in the same breathe with the other big three.  IMO, threads like this are very premature. I still think we will see this move bring us another banner.  IMO Doc could even be playing him more and pairing him alongside KG.  I anticipate as the season wears on we will see more of this.

He is 36, and this is his last go.  Yet his skill set brings us something very valuable.

So he's a HOFer?  He took a bad team to the conference finals?  He can score 25+ per game, but he limits his own offense to better fit in with his teammates?  He was the leader of the Pistons?

Sheed was lucky to be on a heck of a team in Detroit.  If he can put up numbers like that, he doesn't - and never has.  He's not a leader like the rest of the big 3 have proven to be - the leader of his Pistons team was Chauncey Billups, followed probably by Ben Wallace.  Effort and ambition have always been question marks for him - he's been under fire his whole career for seeming to have the skillset of a superstar, but the production of a roleplayer.

Look, Sheed is what he is.  He's a complimentary player, has been his whole career.  I like what he brings to the team, and I view him as an excellent acquisition.  But let's not act like we brought in another 'big 3'-caliber player, somebody who's setting his own stats aside for the better of the team, because that's not what's happening here.

With that said, how are you questioning his effort, Moiso?  He's played good D and he's been where he's supposed to be on offense.  He was rolling around in the paint last night for a loose ball screaming "timeout" to get us an extra possession.  Clearly the sign of a lack of effort and hustle.  You claim it wears off on his teammates, and yet his unit is normally the one responsible when we pull away for wins.  If something is rubbing off on his teammates, it's definitely not his lack of effort and intensity.

Stop looking at number sand look at what players equate as greatness.  Rings?  I agree Chauncy and Rip were probably the biggest leaders in that run, but Sheed brought something the others didn't.  Big man who can stretch the D is an intangible in the NBA.  Sheed was also a hell of a college player.


I never said Sheed was a HOF.  I said he is up there with the big three.  How many rings?

And 'up there with the big 3' means 'HOFer', since all three of them are likely in. 

Just because he brings a valuable commodity to the team doesn't put him 'up there with the big 3'.  Kendrick Perkins brings a valuable commodity - he's one of the best post defenders in the league, maybe one of the only players who can limit Dwight and Shaq one-on-one.  Is he up there with the big 3?  I love him, but no - not even close. 

Rings?  Horry has seven of them.  Clearly he's a better player than the big 3 and Sheed combined, right? 

Stats don't tell the entire story, but at some point you have to look at production.  Sheed, for all of his hype, doesn't produce enough to be mentioned with the big 3 - never has.  He's an excellent roleplayer, no more, no less. 

[RockinRyA]

I still love Sheed as a Celtic.  I just dislike the overall tendency of this whole team to get complacent, and decide to have a 3 point shootout every game.  The number of forced 3's has increased dramatically over the last week and a half, and it has been a teamwide epidemic.

Doesn't the finger of blame for this epidemic have to be pointed at Sheed? It literally feels like I'm watching a 2002 Antoine Walker coming off the bench. As an other poster mentioned, Mcdyess would have been a better fit, he bangs and has a good mid-range jumper.

Is there any chance we trade this guy if the team continues to struggle? I don't see a match anywhere. Plus, wouldn't it be embarrassing for everyone involved in the courting process?

We're Married to this guy for three years

What was he doing differently in 5 years ago that made him an elite player? Is he out of shape? He's a settler... It's driving me crazy.

dice is a 4. we need a backup 5.

[RockinRyA]

And i think the posey argument is right on point. Why would the posey contract, which would be for all intents an purposes the same contract at this point (MLE for 3 more years) not be an albatross but a contract of the same type for a better player is?

Because my assessment of James Posey is different to the majority of this blog.

When we discuss new signings like Sheed (or Marbury), people are quick to point out that playing for a contender could rejuvenate their game and that it´s about "more than just the numbers". When we discuss Posey, we look solely at numbers and forget his history. He played great for the Miami championship team, but disappeared in the following season (a contract season), which was the reason why we got him for peanuts in 2007.
We all know he played great for us in our championship season, even if it seems that most of us have already forgotten. Now he´s in the dog house, again.

Posey is what he is, a very versatile, tough role-player who plays the right way. He allowed us to play different units, and his skill set was a big reason why these units worked (see exhibit A: the 2008 bench). He is your typical "only valuable to a contender" player, he won´t go out of his way to take over games. Simply put, he plays as good as the rest of the team allows.
There is more (about tradability, dynamics on the court, etc.) but I really don´t have the time or desire to talk about Posey anymore.

Seriously, this isn´t about Pose, it´s about Sheed, and I think we should agree to disagree. Let´s just wait a few more games before we decide if he can still help us win a championship.

where do you get this "very versatile?" He can defend the 3 and some 4 well. he shoots well from 3, gets some rebounds. thats versatility?

[BASS_THUMPER]

im glad sheed is here along with scalabrine and eddie..we gotta nother long range weapon..plus sheed got heart..and i promise when playoffs come any doubters will change that mind cause for sure he will step up his game..sheed is only as good as the challenge..good thing nor a bad thing jus sheed.

[CelticG1]

And 'up there with the big 3' means 'HOFer', since all three of them are likely in. 

Well there was a thread up a couple weeks ago asking whether Sheed is a hall of famer or not. Although probably most people thought that he wasn't some still thought he might be so I would say that you could still classify him as "up there with the big 3". Not to mention that KG is the only lock hall of famer out of the 3 of them anyway.

Sheed is our 6th man. He is not getting big minutes and his production will be relatively low because of this. I guess I just don't know what people are expecting. 20 points a night? 10 rebounds a game? Pass the ball 2 more times a game instead of shooting the 3? To me he has done everything that I have expected especially out of a 6th man.

[Rondo_is_better]

He's doing a fine job. Chill.

[wdleehi]

I never looked to it as talking down I saw it as calling it as it is.  Sheed was brought in to fill a role which he has accepted and is doing fine.  He has had a few off games, but so has Paul Pierce and KG, but no one is talking about them.  Comparing Sheed to Scal or even big Baby to me is laughable.  Sheed, is a proven champ, he has won on many levels, he has been an all star.  He is in the same breathe with the other big three.  IMO, threads like this are very premature. I still think we will see this move bring us another banner.  IMO Doc could even be playing him more and pairing him alongside KG.  I anticipate as the season wears on we will see more of this.

He is 36, and this is his last go.  Yet his skill set brings us something very valuable.

So he's a HOFer?  He took a bad team to the conference finals?  He can score 25+ per game, but he limits his own offense to better fit in with his teammates?  He was the leader of the Pistons?

Sheed was lucky to be on a heck of a team in Detroit.  If he can put up numbers like that, he doesn't - and never has.  He's not a leader like the rest of the big 3 have proven to be - the leader of his Pistons team was Chauncey Billups, followed probably by Ben Wallace.  Effort and ambition have always been question marks for him - he's been under fire his whole career for seeming to have the skillset of a superstar, but the production of a roleplayer.

Look, Sheed is what he is.  He's a complimentary player, has been his whole career.  I like what he brings to the team, and I view him as an excellent acquisition.  But let's not act like we brought in another 'big 3'-caliber player, somebody who's setting his own stats aside for the better of the team, because that's not what's happening here.

With that said, how are you questioning his effort, Moiso?  He's played good D and he's been where he's supposed to be on offense.  He was rolling around in the paint last night for a loose ball screaming "timeout" to get us an extra possession.  Clearly the sign of a lack of effort and hustle.  You claim it wears off on his teammates, and yet his unit is normally the one responsible when we pull away for wins.  If something is rubbing off on his teammates, it's definitely not his lack of effort and intensity.

Wallace has always sacrificed his number for a better chance to win.  That's one of the reasons players have always loved playing with him.  He had the same talent levels as the Webbers, Duncans, KGs had. 


And as for him on the Pistons, in the playoffs, if you wanted to know how the games went, you looked at how Wallace played. 

[Atzar]

I never looked to it as talking down I saw it as calling it as it is.  Sheed was brought in to fill a role which he has accepted and is doing fine.  He has had a few off games, but so has Paul Pierce and KG, but no one is talking about them.  Comparing Sheed to Scal or even big Baby to me is laughable.  Sheed, is a proven champ, he has won on many levels, he has been an all star.  He is in the same breathe with the other big three.  IMO, threads like this are very premature. I still think we will see this move bring us another banner.  IMO Doc could even be playing him more and pairing him alongside KG.  I anticipate as the season wears on we will see more of this.

He is 36, and this is his last go.  Yet his skill set brings us something very valuable.

So he's a HOFer?  He took a bad team to the conference finals?  He can score 25+ per game, but he limits his own offense to better fit in with his teammates?  He was the leader of the Pistons?

Sheed was lucky to be on a heck of a team in Detroit.  If he can put up numbers like that, he doesn't - and never has.  He's not a leader like the rest of the big 3 have proven to be - the leader of his Pistons team was Chauncey Billups, followed probably by Ben Wallace.  Effort and ambition have always been question marks for him - he's been under fire his whole career for seeming to have the skillset of a superstar, but the production of a roleplayer.

Look, Sheed is what he is.  He's a complimentary player, has been his whole career.  I like what he brings to the team, and I view him as an excellent acquisition.  But let's not act like we brought in another 'big 3'-caliber player, somebody who's setting his own stats aside for the better of the team, because that's not what's happening here.

With that said, how are you questioning his effort, Moiso?  He's played good D and he's been where he's supposed to be on offense.  He was rolling around in the paint last night for a loose ball screaming "timeout" to get us an extra possession.  Clearly the sign of a lack of effort and hustle.  You claim it wears off on his teammates, and yet his unit is normally the one responsible when we pull away for wins.  If something is rubbing off on his teammates, it's definitely not his lack of effort and intensity.

Wallace has always sacrificed his number for a better chance to win.  That's one of the reasons players have always loved playing with him.  He had the same talent levels as the Webbers, Duncans, KGs had. 


And as for him on the Pistons, in the playoffs, if you wanted to know how the games went, you looked at how Wallace played. 

See, I just don't buy that.  I know he's a great team player, he does whatever the team needs to get the win, but I'm not sold that he was ever any more than  glorified roleplayer.  He's undeniably one of the best at what he brings, don't get me wrong.  But I'm not convinced that he could be more than that even if he team needed him to be.  If you could show me a stretch of games to prove me wrong, maybe I'd agree with you - but I think his 'eh' production is as much a product of a lack of ambition as it is a team-first attitude.