"We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)

[LB3533]

AI's time in Denver is all you need to know about AI if you want to consider if he would sacrifice his game to win.

He wasn't winning in Philly, they traded him to a team with another superstar. How would the two co-exist? AI's never had a legit superstar teammate (no Chris Webber doesn't count).

Iverson averaged nearly 25 shots per game his last 3 seasons in Philly, in Denver he averaged less than 19 while increasing his FG% by about 5%.

[wdleehi]

AI's time in Denver is all you need to know about AI if you want to consider if he would sacrifice his game to win.

He wasn't winning in Philly, they traded him to a team with another superstar. How would the two co-exist? AI's never had a legit superstar teammate (no Chris Webber doesn't count).

Iverson averaged nearly 25 shots per game his last 3 seasons in Philly, in Denver he averaged less than 19 while increasing his FG% by about 5%.

So an underperforming team that had two scorers taking turns scoring while never really help the other one by creating easy baskets for them?


Funny that when Billups got there, Melo was suddenly back in the conversation with Wade and Lebron.  (not quite as good as those two, but better then he had been showing with AI)


ANd funny all the former stars that stop being offensive stars when they had to play next to AI.

[nickagneta]

AI's time in Denver is all you need to know about AI if you want to consider if he would sacrifice his game to win.

He wasn't winning in Philly, they traded him to a team with another superstar. How would the two co-exist? AI's never had a legit superstar teammate (no Chris Webber doesn't count).

Iverson averaged nearly 25 shots per game his last 3 seasons in Philly, in Denver he averaged less than 19 while increasing his FG% by about 5%.

I don't see where Iverson sacrificed that much of his game in Denver as compared to Philly. In Philly he always had one player that, when added along with his numbers, took 50% or so of all their teams shots. In Denver, he might have taken slightly less shots per game, in Philly his average for all his years there was a bit over 23 per game in Denver 19, but between him and Melo, they still took 50% of the shots, as always.

His game never changed. He had one guy he didn't mind sharing the scoring spotlight with and the hell with everyone else to the detriment to the team.

[Eric_Suede]

#3 I'll repeat this till the cows come home. Remember when we picked up Ray Allen. Yeah that same RAY ALLEN who's "old" ,fresh off Ankle surgery? Would KG have signed with us? Would we have #17? Actually I'll go a step further, think back to 07 , let's say we signed AI and we had a backcourt of PP & AI? You think KG would be more likely to sign with a team that has AI and Pierce or Pierce and freakin Mike Conley?
All i'm going to say is I'm glad Ainge finally saw the light and didn't listen to many on this board or else we'd be 3-7. whining having discussions like "HOW COME GREEN IS SO CLUELESS ON DEFENSE" ,"FIRE DOC".

Ray Allen cares about winning.  Like Pierce, Allen sacrificed his offense and ramped up his  defense for the team.  Iverson cares about Iverson.  They are far from interchangable parts.  This is speculation of course.  (Garnett didn't sign with us..He was traded to us)  But I kind of think that Garnett would have "signed" with the Sioux Falls Skyforce for 27m.  But given the choice, if he wanted to win, he'd rather be on a team with Conley and Pierce than Iverson and anybody else. 

The reason we were so clueless on defense is because Rivers can't coach defense.  Danny idiot-proofed both the roster and the coaching staff.  He rid the team of all of the poor-man's Iversons.   Why would he want Iverson himself?

Stand Corrected on the "signing" part but My point is that KG had NO desire to come to Beantown and would've done something to hinder the trade had we not had a team of solid vets (specifically Allen) that he could see win a title. If i'm not mistaken he admitted as such in the press conferences. He saw that as a sign that this organization is serious about forming a championship team. That is what draws Vets and big name free agents. That's my point. So as you are obviously a AI hater, fine ok lets say you're correct he's all about AI and yes he scores 26ppg but it's considered a failure for some reason (again I can't imagine it being considered a failure since they suck anyhow) . What it does for Memphis "future" is it would show the league , AI can still score , which would undoubtedly be much better trade bait than Mike Conley. Even though you guys say his tenure in Denver was a failure Look where it got them... Chauncey Billups.  You think Detroit would've traded chauncey billups for Mike Conley? lol lol Please don't make me laugh and gag at the same time. Finkel , I get it you don't like his game, but for a franchise that's going nowhere I see absolutely nothing to lose.
 
 Obviously the memphis staff & others agree and would rather have conley. For a person like me, maybe i'm different. Again look how much the Grizzlies have improved with Conley at the helm Their horrible record speaks for itself. By the way before he went to detroit Wallace was considered a "crybaby Cancer" as well. Put him in the right situation with PROVEN VETS, not puppies 2003 champs & hopefully 2010 champs.

I'm sorry I just never understood the logic, I have player A who I know for a FACT is capable of putting up big numbers, I shun him in favor of player B who sucks now but I gamble , hope & pray that one day he "develops" into player that's capable of putting up player A's numbers. Dude I'd go with player A. Plan B is a waste of time , besides who's to say if Conley does develop into a special player ,that he'll want to stay in memphis? What good was it for Portland to "develop" jermain o'neal. What good was it for Toronto to "develop" Tracy mcgrady. Can't see it. Again AI did that franchise a favor. What does Memphis have to look forward to now other than another years of more 20 something win seasons? Thank God i'm a celtics fan.  

[LB3533]

Check the numbers, Melo's performance and production declined when playing along side Billups.

Also, when Billups got to the Nuggets, Melo was hurt so he never was "back in the conversation" with Wade and Lebron.

The only time Melo came back into the conversation was in the playoffs when Melo had his best playoff performance of his career. (And it's not like Billups turned to Steve Nash either in the playoffs, in fact Billups's scoring also increased in the playoffs.)

[Eric_Suede]

AI's time in Denver is all you need to know about AI if you want to consider if he would sacrifice his game to win.

He wasn't winning in Philly, they traded him to a team with another superstar. How would the two co-exist? AI's never had a legit superstar teammate (no Chris Webber doesn't count).

Iverson averaged nearly 25 shots per game his last 3 seasons in Philly, in Denver he averaged less than 19 while increasing his FG% by about 5%.

So an underperforming team that had two scorers taking turns scoring while never really help the other one by creating easy baskets for them?


Funny that when Billups got there, Melo was suddenly back in the conversation with Wade and Lebron.  (not quite as good as those two, but better then he had been showing with AI)


ANd funny all the former stars that stop being offensive stars when they had to play next to AI.

As opposed to plan b for Denver which would've been what exactly? Stick with Andre Miller & Joe Smith, (that was working wonders) or better yet, traded Andre Miller and drafted Mike Conley. Conley would've been an upgrade right? Oh of course Detroit would've then been Screaming and clawing at the chance to give up Chauncey Billups in order to get Conley on the Roster. we're getting a little off course here. The disagreement is not whether AI is capable of winning a ring. We got off topic on the original thread and the source of this new debate is whether Memphis was better off With Conley getting monster minutes or AI getting those minutes. Personally I feel folk are out their mind and their record with conley at the helm for the last 2 seasons should be an obvious indication that Memphis is headed nowhere waiting for Conley to Develop, that's why i'm having a hard time letting this topic go. lol IMHO Memphis should've given AI what he wanted and let the man play.
  AI was displeased with coming off the bench in detroit but yet you expect him to come off the bench for your sorry non-winning franchise,Memphis grizzlies? Sorry I don't buy it , I can't conceive AI agreeing to that. I believe he was tricked into believing otherwise and was completely taken back when Hollins sat him down (with no intention to discuss it with him).

[nickagneta]

Check the numbers, Melo's performance and production declined when playing along side Billups.

Also, when Billups got to the Nuggets, Melo was hurt so he never was "back in the conversation" with Wade and Lebron.

The only time Melo came back into the conversation was in the playoffs when Melo had his best playoff performance of his career. (And it's not like Billups turned to Steve Nash either in the playoffs, in fact Billups's scoring also increased in the playoffs.)

Melo is at the moment being considered as an early season candidate for MVP based on his ALL AROUND PLAY. Looking at just scoring stats when judging player is one of the worse things someone can do in judging a player. Melo, as an all around player, has become better playing alongside Billups, as has everyone else because they are being involved in the offense and have learned of the importance of defense through his example and leadership.

I think your, "Melo isn't as good without AI" argument is not only seriously and logically flawed, it's down right wrong.

[LB3533]

Check the numbers, Melo's performance and production declined when playing along side Billups.

Also, when Billups got to the Nuggets, Melo was hurt so he never was "back in the conversation" with Wade and Lebron.

The only time Melo came back into the conversation was in the playoffs when Melo had his best playoff performance of his career. (And it's not like Billups turned to Steve Nash either in the playoffs, in fact Billups's scoring also increased in the playoffs.)

Melo is at the moment being considered as an early season candidate for MVP based on his ALL AROUND PLAY. Looking at just scoring stats when judging player is one of the worse things someone can do in judging a player. Melo, as an all around player, has become better playing alongside Billups, as has everyone else because they are being involved in the offense and have learned of the importance of defense through his example and leadership.

I think your, "Melo isn't as good without AI" argument is not only seriously and logically flawed, it's down right wrong.

My argument about Melo is for his play when Billups was traded to the Nuggets last season, not this year.

The two seasons Melo played with AI were two of Melo's best seasons. His Per was over 21, his shooting % was in the upper 40 percentile.

This year Melo has been playing like a stud, but has also come down to earth a bit, and no it doesn't have as much to do with Billups involving Melo more, it has every bit to do with Melo actually playing to his own potential picking up the slack while J.R. Smith has been suspended for these early games of this season. Now that J.R. Smith is back from suspension, look for Melo's production to continue to be more "human".

[xmuscularghandix]

If you want Allen Iverson on your team then you don't know enough about basketball to run a team.

[kg is king]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AuTLe8K5vyOwQltWAJQQdLA5nYcB?slug=aw-iversonrelease030210&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Do we need an "Answer" in Boston to all our issues now? 

I know we are loaded with undersized guards but in the 25 games he played for Philly he has shown the ability to score and blow by much younger guards. Clearly, he still has alot left in the tank. Thoughts?

[JSD]

Of course he waits until after I drop Lou Williams to announce this 

[Lucky17]

Unless his daughter's health takes a turn for the better, I don't see him on another roster this season.

Was he even released before last night's deadline?

[Onslaught]

I hope his daughter gets better.
And I hope I never see him play in the NBA again.

[ACF]

I hope his daughter gets better.

I second that.

[kg is king]

Unless his daughter's health takes a turn for the better, I don't see him on another roster this season.

Was he even released before last night's deadline?

He was not released