"We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)

[Hila]

I'd like to see AI and Starbury in a reality TV series.

What if Delonte West does something crazy again and the Cavs panic and sign AI to be a potential replacement/insurance for West?

A person could hope....It'd be much more fun to watch the messiah's team implode and a lot more reEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.l for our players if we didn't have to eliminate them themselves.  What a circus that would be...Mixing the wackiness of Delonte with the insatiable egos of the messiah, O'Neal, and the most overrated and selfish player in NBA history.

And I do think Doc Rivers could manage Iverson as well. Whatever Doc's shortcomings as a coach might be, he's a great manager of personalities. But I'd stop short of saying I want Iverson on the Celtics without knowing exactly what's going on in that locker room and in Iverson's head.

??  Ainge had to idiotproof the team so Rivers could manage it at all.  Gary Payton?  Ricky Davis?  Mark Blount?  Marcus Banks?  Wally?  He had trouble with Raef Lafrenz for petes sake.  You think Rivers could manage somebody who's an overt coach killer?  You think Rivers could get this idiot, who hasn't played defense at all since he pretended to for Larry Brown, to defend for him?

Wow.

There was a big caveat at the beginning of my post. I think that Doc Rivers is one of half a dozen coaches who could manage Iverson IF-- and as I said, it's a big IF-- Iverson wants to take on a different role. You think Iverson is an idiot through and through; I don't.

I wasn't talking about anyone trying to get Iverson to do something he doesn't want to do; that isn't worth it. My suggestion was that it takes someone special to get him to do something he DOES want to do.

So, yes, I  give Doc more credit than you do. Two years ago, when the current big three came together, there was much moaning about "how many balls are they going to need?" Doc came up with ubuntu and a title. I suppose you'll tell me that anyone could have done that, that Paul and Ray and KG didn't even need a coach. But talented teams with arranged marriages of superstars have failed in the past. Paul and Ray at least have quarreled with coaches (I can't think of an example with KG, so maybe I'll stipulate that he's perfect and anyone under the sun could handle his arrogance, intensity, craziness, etc.)

I also think Doc did an extraordinary job getting something out of nothing in Orlando-- the year John Amaechi of all people had a nice year. (No other coach ever got anything out of him.) That Orlando team had nothing when Grant Hill went down and played out of its mind for Doc. That was all psychological, because it wasn't player talent.

But I really doubt that Iverson would want to come to Boston or that the Celtics would want to invite him at this time, so we'll never know for sure.

[Eric_Suede]

edit - Just to many things that I would have to edit.  Do not use offensive words.  Do not adjust spellings with use of symbols to get around filters.  wdleehi

Sorry about that! Seriously I wasn't trying to be clever ,I was honestly trying to get a point across with strong words yet I didn't want to type it flat out. I really am sorry , but dude I put so much into that post did you have to totally remove it. Couldn't you just take out that word. You're really going to make me repeat my whole rant again? come on? 

[Finkelskyhook]

I think the Grizzlies ownership used AI just to sell tickets and tricked him to signing with the bait that he'd be given an opportunity as was in philly , for him to carry a team on his back. but on the flip side....let me ask you this , Lets say you were Kevin Garnett, Lets say KG's contract was up and he decided to go Sacremento. You honestly think there's justice in asking or assuming that KG should be on the bench playing sparringly behind Jason Thompson? So Thompson can "develop"? .

Apples to cabbage analogy. A better comparison would be to replace Garnett with Tank Carter or his cousin in Houston and make that comparison.  There will probably never be a situation where Garnett doesn't make his team better.  There will probably never be a situation where Iverson does.  Dumars did the same thing the Grizz' ownership did...Try to sell tickets while mailing in the season.  Iverson was bamboozled???  Spare me.  The Grizzlies knew what they were getting and Iverson does what he does best...The Grizz probably thought they'd get half a season out of the coach killer.....And fire another coach.  LOL.  

At this point...Or in reality at any point, I don't see Iverson as a better player than Conley if you're trying to win.  If you're trying to sell tickets and jerseys  to people who know nothing about basketball and don't care whether their team wins or loses, Iverson is your poster child.

There was a big caveat at the beginning of my post. I think that Doc Rivers is one of half a dozen coaches who could manage Iverson IF-- and as I said, it's a big IF-- Iverson wants to take on a different role. You think Iverson is an idiot through and through; I don't.

Yeah.  And if the moon were about a million miles closer to the earth we could access all of that water that was just discovered there.  It's one of those if it quacks like a duck...

[Brickowski]

Well, the only two guys on that Grizzlies team who play basketball are Conley and Marc Gasol.  The rest are just chuckers.  That's why they don't win.

[JPMmiles]

I'm looking for either a "dislike" button or a way to take away a Tommy Point from the original poster. 

Does anyone know of a way to do either?

Why would anyone take a "TP" way from someone else if such an option was available? What would be the meaning by it?

If, for example, someone was to put forth a great idea or comment, someone else might give them a Tommy Point.  Something of a virtual high five for all to see.  Right?

If, on the other hand, someone put forth a colossally ridiculous idea like adding an end of his career me-first stat machine who has a reputation for team disruption to a currently loaded Celtics squad (you know, just as an example) someone else might want to take away a Tommy Point. 

Sort of a virtual slap to the face if you will.

[Eric_Suede]

I just want to say , I Love AI as a player but I really don't think he fits with this squad. Chemistry won't be there. I was 100% rooting for AI to be in green when the rumor first surfaced before the Big three era began but now I don't see it working out. AI is still a superstar in this league and I'm practically still in awe about the amount of disrespect he's been given as a player of his caliber. Especially in MEMPHIS, THE Grizzlies absolutely suck, I don't care how you try to slice it, Having Conley start over AI and get majority of minutes was a crime. I Still can't believe Majority of "experts" and haters were on the grizzlies side on this one. Still in utter amazement of the amount of ignorance. Anyhow back to the point. He wouldn't fit here. GREAT PLAYER and can realistically still put up 25ppg. Personally I think his best bet (maybe not to get a ring, but to restore his personal career) would be to sign with Charlotte or the Warriors. I truly Feel Larry brown or Nelson will let AI shine and bring excitement to an otherwise Boring franchise such as those. So my vote. NO for AI in Green but YES AI still an excellent player who'll be a plus for whatever non-contending team willing to sign him.

It's AI's fault for not listening when offered the contract to come off the bench.  The starting backcourt of the future was going to get the major minutes.

I don't believe that at all. Don't ask me why ,well I mostly base this belief from the interviews AI did once he decided to sign with Memphis. I personally believe he was lead to believe by the Owners that #1 he'd be given major minutes and will be given a platform to shine. On numerous occasions he stated how he was going to prove doubters wrong (that he still had what it takes to carry a nba team) and do his thing. #2 That memphis was serious about doing what it took to become winners. Not "rebuilding". Initially signs such as signing a vet (randolph) that maybe they finally see the light (as did the celtics) that you sign proven vets and match them with great young players and that's how you build a winner. I don't believe for ONE SECOND he was told or lead to believe that he was there to "babysit" or serve as a mentor for the young puppies. That's where the problem emerged, I think the Grizzlies ownership used AI just to sell tickets and tricked him to signing with the bait that he'd be given an opportunity as was in philly , for him to carry a team on his back. but on the flip side....let me ask you this , Lets say you were Kevin Garnett, Lets say KG's contract was up and he decided to go Sacremento. You honestly think there's justice in asking or assuming that KG should be on the bench playing sparringly behind Jason Thompson? So Thompson can "develop"? .... Please that's a downright insult. That's what the NBDL is for. to Develop players. Besides Conley has been starting for the Grizz for the last 2 seasons. I'm sorry , again not to seem like i'm on AI's jock but I still stand by my thoughts or beliefs that having AI play sparringly behind Freakin Mike Conley of all people was a flat out insult. No justification in that. it's not someone like rondo or some other young player where you can honestly say "this youngin will be a star one day" Conley is a servicable backup at best.  

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4457772

At Heisley's behest, Memphis has been pursuing Iverson since July, ignoring concerns about his willingness to accept a reserve role

Asked specifically about Iverson's well-known aversion to coming off the bench, Wallace said: "He indicated to us that he just wants to come in and help a team out, to get better, to win, and he'll shine during that process. I think Allen Iverson is going to be very fine with whatever role he would end up fulfilling here in Memphis. … He knows where we're coming from, we know where he's coming from and I think if he comes here it's going to be a very productive marriage."

Funniest quote  

"I would lead by example," Iverson wrote.

And lets compare AI to play more easily to compare with, Wallace.


Wallace went to a good team and readly accepted a backup role for the chance to win again.


AI found the worst team he could in hopes of hanging another year of stats.  


Wallace has embraced the ways of the team he joined.

AI quit after three games.




Now, having watch him, seems closer to how KG would act if faced with this type of situation?  (you know, after he and the other two star sacrificed personal stats for the chance to be a champ)

#1 I'm not suggesting AI handled it the right way, I was making a case saying that I understand why AI was upset. Personally I wouldn't have quit but at the same time If I were in AI's Shoes I can very well see myself audibly voicing my displeasure as he did.

#2 I'll give you points cause I don't have access (better yet I don't feel like digging) up old press releases to counter your point. I personally believe he was just saying the right things cause he of course wanted to play with a team. I still believe in his heart he felt he'd be given that opportunity right away (to carry the team). Not to dump on Conley cause i'm sure he's a good kid and I truly wish great things for him, I don't believe he's on Iverson's level skillwise.

#3 You can't compare this with wallace situation. As I expressed in my rant you so rudely removed. lol   Memphis is a terrible team. The Celtics are just one year removed from being world champs (and I personally feel if KG were healthy they would've repeat) Wallace knows and respects that. He's 100% aware that The C's are a contender even without him and he's being brought there to get them over the hump so to speak and be a part of the winning atmosphere. He wants to win so I don't believe Wallace would have any issues as he has shown beautifully. MEMPHIS on the other hand is a terrible team Point blank. they had absolutely nothing to lose.
a) It's not possible for them to sink any lower, AI brought exitement to an otherwise Boring franchise and sold tickets. No ring to possibly be had there so this isn't a situation whereas they're contenders and they want AI to get them over the hump. THE FRANCHISE is on life support , they need ANYTHING to help them stay alive. Why not use the "experimental drug" known as the answer.

b) Again what if AI put the team on his back and it was successful, Scrappy #8 playoff team,it would've again built excitement and maybe attracted more big name good free agents thus making them winners.

c) if it were a disaster they could place the blame on AI. No harm no foul, the fans in memphis would've understood and just chalked it up as a failed experiment. I mean they feel that now but at least there would be some excitement this year. What do they have to look forward too now? What good player in their right mind wants to go to memphis? Having AI on their roster was a plus and they just squandered an opportunity.

[wdleehi]

The state of the team is not different then when AI signed with them. 


He choice to go into that situation. 


Therefor he gets all the blame for quiting. 


And as a result, teams still do not want him. 



And yes, Wallace is a great example.  Two older players both coming from the same team.

[moiso]

eric- why do you think AI automatically deserves to have teams built around him?

[Finkelskyhook]

eric- why do you think AI automatically deserves to have teams built around him?

I don't know that Eric does but Iverson sure does. 

[moiso]

And how did Memphis squander an opportunity?  AI was hurt.  When he was cleared to play he was beginning to be integrated into the team and before that could fully happen, AI quit.  I didn't realize when a player is cleared to play they immediately had to start and play 40minutes.  The C's didn't do it that way with KG...

[Eric_Suede]

eric- why do you think AI automatically deserves to have teams built around him?

Because despite his mistakes and attitude I still believe AI is a great player and has proven himself (on the court,not off necessarily) to be a major force. Right now he's still able to put up approx 24ppg. Name another player on their roster (other than Gay) who you can count on to consistently put up big 20+ numbers. I'm not saying a team should mortgage their future or every team should look to place him as their foundation but when you're a team like Memphis or the Knicks. A team you KNOW FOR A FACT is going nowhere fast and there's truly no player that will give you a glimmer of hope to be able to turn things around and your franchise is flat out Boring......... Adding a HOF type player is NEVER a bad thing. Especially as with this case You don't have to commit to a long term deal. Getting to the point of this thread, For teams like the Lakers , Cavs & my beloved C's i'd say NO! we're at the mountaintop No tweaking needed. but to a scrub franchise I see nothing to lose. Same as with Football. What will a team like Detroit (who has only won 1 game in the last 2 seasons) , Rams or Raiders have to lose if they had signed Michael Vick? Give me some negatives.. Likewise From an Owners standpoint , you own the boring franchise, with an uninteresting roster such as Grizzlies or Kings....Give me a list of Negatives in signing AI. That they aren't already experiencing (ie low ticket sales, lack of interest , losing , Low Morale in locker room etc)  

[Eric_Suede]

I think the Grizzlies ownership used AI just to sell tickets and tricked him to signing with the bait that he'd be given an opportunity as was in philly , for him to carry a team on his back. but on the flip side....let me ask you this , Lets say you were Kevin Garnett, Lets say KG's contract was up and he decided to go Sacremento. You honestly think there's justice in asking or assuming that KG should be on the bench playing sparringly behind Jason Thompson? So Thompson can "develop"? .

Apples to cabbage analogy. A better comparison would be to replace Garnett with Tank Carter or his cousin in Houston and make that comparison.  There will probably never be a situation where Garnett doesn't make his team better.  There will probably never be a situation where Iverson does.  Dumars did the same thing the Grizz' ownership did...Try to sell tickets while mailing in the season.  Iverson was bamboozled???  Spare me.  The Grizzlies knew what they were getting and Iverson does what he does best...The Grizz probably thought they'd get half a season out of the coach killer.....And fire another coach.  LOL.  

At this point...Or in reality at any point, I don't see Iverson as a better player than Conley if you're trying to win.  If you're trying to sell tickets and jerseys  to people who know nothing about basketball and don't care whether their team wins or loses, Iverson is your poster child.

There was a big caveat at the beginning of my post. I think that Doc Rivers is one of half a dozen coaches who could manage Iverson IF-- and as I said, it's a big IF-- Iverson wants to take on a different role. You think Iverson is an idiot through and through; I don't.

Yeah.  And if the moon were about a million miles closer to the earth we could access all of that water that was just discovered there.  It's one of those if it quacks like a duck...

REALLY Finkelskyhook? You truly believe that? (point about conley being better than Iverson). well if you're not just an iverson hater and you really believe that then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Nothing I can really say to you. We can have this conversation again in about 6 years when you look at the accomplishments AI has and compare them to what Conley has accomplished. Personally I feel it's an insult. You saying that leads me to assume that you were in that camp long ago that felt that we should've stuck with our puppy squad. That Gerald Green Was our future and we "as many said back then" should hold on to him. I'm sorry Dude , I don't subscribe to the philosophy that you build a championship franchise by stockpiling a group of "puppies" with the hopes they'll grow into large rottweilers and pitbulls and you win a championship. You need PROVEN Vets (in addition to ) good young players to get you there. Had we stuck to our young guns #1 Pierce would've definitely have gotten discouraged and left and we'd be a glorified version of the timberwolves still searching for banner #17.

[Eric_Suede]

Ok i'm done, I went all through the forest to simply make this point. I DO NOT want AI in green. We have a championship contender right now. No tweaking, As a matter of fact I even hate the idea of Noccioni trade. Having said that I can't believe that there's hardly no demand , especially from a team that's terrible, for a player of Iverson's Caliber. I guess i'll just be of that vocal minority that's in his corner.

[nickagneta]

Eric, how old are you? Just wondering for scientific purposes for a theory I have.

[Redz]

Ok i'm done, I went all through the forest to simply make this point. I DO NOT want AI in green. We have a championship contender right now. No tweaking, As a matter of fact I even hate the idea of Noccioni trade. Having said that I can't believe that there's hardly no demand , especially from a team that's terrible, for a player of Iverson's Caliber. I guess i'll just be of that vocal minority that's in his corner.

The problem is he can't go to a contender because they'll want him to play a role he's not willing to take, and he can't go to a rebuilding team because they'll also want him to do the same.  What he needs is a sucky team that doesn't care about developing its players and doesn't mind being sucky.

Knicks sound about right?