Nocioni Rumor (merged)

[BrickJames]

I've agreed with the sentiment that being financially prudent concerning the future isn't necessarily the best thing for this team.  I agree it's OK to screw ourselves three years from now to win this year or next.

However, I don't think Nocioni helps this year, let alone three years from now.  And I think your comments reveal that too.  You say that Nocioni "would outperform in the Scalabrine role."  I agree.  The only problem is that Scalabrine doesn't have a role.  He only had a role last year when half the team was hurt. 

7 million a year is too much for a guy who might not even break the rotation, especially since it may mean no MLE next year. 

Scalabrine has no role?  Tell me, who's backing up Pierce right now?  Is it Marquis Daniels?  I thought he was a guard.

Please don't say Bill Walker.  He's not ready.

By process of elimination, that leaves Scal.  Or perhaps Nocioni.

[timepiece33]

First of all, his offense and defense are fine for a bench player.

Second of all, there is nobody even close to Nocioni available for the minimum.

In terms of a trade, we would not be taking on any extra salary.

And there's no reason that Ray Allen wouldn't be able to play here next year.

1. Nocioni's offense and defense are not fine for his current salary commitment over the next 4 years.  His salary for a 10 minute a game guy is excessive, which is why people have brought up Wally.   I believe that Nocioni is a more effective offensive player when asked to be the guy.    

2. If they are paying Nocioni $7MM per year, you believe they are going to sign Allen to a $7MM contract as well?   Realize they will be in the luxury tax.

[Jon]

I've agreed with the sentiment that being financially prudent concerning the future isn't necessarily the best thing for this team.  I agree it's OK to screw ourselves three years from now to win this year or next.

However, I don't think Nocioni helps this year, let alone three years from now.  And I think your comments reveal that too.  You say that Nocioni "would outperform in the Scalabrine role."  I agree.  The only problem is that Scalabrine doesn't have a role.  He only had a role last year when half the team was hurt. 

7 million a year is too much for a guy who might not even break the rotation, especially since it may mean no MLE next year. 

Scalabrine has no role?  Tell me, who's backing up Pierce right now?  Is it Marquis Daniels?  I thought he was a guard.

Please don't say Bill Walker.  He's not ready.

By process of elimination, that leaves Scal.  Or perhaps Nocioni.

Can you imagine any circumstance where Rondo, Allen, and Pierce play less than 32 mpg each?  In all likelihood, they each play more than that.  But for the sake of argument, let's pretend they each play only 32 mpg next season.  That leaves a whopping 48 minutes that the C's have to find players to backup the point guard, shooting guard, and small forward positions. 

I see no reason why Marquis Daniels can't play 28 mpg backing up the 2 and 3 spots and Eddie House can't play 20 mpg backing up Rondo with a few spot minutes backing up Ray. 

That leaves ZERO minutes for anyone else. 

So yes, I don't see Scal or any other 3 playing unless there's an injury, foul trouble, or a blow out.

And I don't think it's worth 7 million a year and likely no MLE next year for Nocioni to come in and replace that. 

[mgent]

First of all, his offense and defense are fine for a bench player.

Second of all, there is nobody even close to Nocioni available for the minimum.

In terms of a trade, we would not be taking on any extra salary.

And there's no reason that Ray Allen wouldn't be able to play here next year.

1. Nocioni's offense and defense are not fine for his current salary commitment over the next 4 years.  His salary for a 10 minute a game guy is excessive, which is why people have brought up Wally.   I believe that Nocioni is a more effective offensive player when asked to be the guy.    

2. If they are paying Nocioni $7MM per year, you believe they are going to sign Allen to a $7MM contract as well?   Realize they will be in the luxury tax.

Nocioni is more effective offensively, and way more effective defensively.  If we trade for Nocioni, we are keeping the same amount of salary.  If we sign Wally to some sort of deal it would be adding salary, and taking up another roster spot we don't have.  We are already in the luxury tax buddy, and if we want to continue winning we need to stay there.  If it means we have to take on another 3 years of contract, than that just means we have already found somebody for the next 3 years.

I don't know why you would ever turn away talent because you're scared of their contract.

Also, I see no reason why Nocioni, House, and Daniels could all play 15-20 minutes a game.

[mgent]

I'd also be happy with a Posey trade that included the same people.  Anything to strengthen our team.

There's plenty of other SFs are worth that trade other than Posey too.  The trouble is getting the trade to go through with the other team.  It just so happens someone reported a rumor regarding Nocioni.

[jdub1660]

First of all, his offense and defense are fine for a bench player.

Second of all, there is nobody even close to Nocioni available for the minimum.

In terms of a trade, we would not be taking on any extra salary.

And there's no reason that Ray Allen wouldn't be able to play here next year.

1. Nocioni's offense and defense are not fine for his current salary commitment over the next 4 years.  His salary for a 10 minute a game guy is excessive, which is why people have brought up Wally.   I believe that Nocioni is a more effective offensive player when asked to be the guy.    

2. If they are paying Nocioni $7MM per year, you believe they are going to sign Allen to a $7MM contract as well?   Realize they will be in the luxury tax.

Nocioni is more effective offensively, and way more effective defensively.  If we trade for Nocioni, we are keeping the same amount of salary.  If we sign Wally to some sort of deal it would be adding salary, and taking up another roster spot we don't have.  We are already in the luxury tax buddy, and if we want to continue winning we need to stay there.  If it means we have to take on another 3 years of contract, than that just means we have already found somebody for the next 3 years.

I don't know why you would ever turn away talent because you're scared of their contract.

Also, I see no reason why Nocioni, House, and Daniels could all play 15-20 minutes a game.

Agreed for sure. My point to make is not that their will be limited bench minutes, but injuries happen. And they seem to happen when there is no bench guy to step up. KG went down, BBD stepped up, but then the bench was left with just House.
With Nocioni, if Ray or Pierce, or even 1 of our PFs goes down, he can step in and fill the void. Plus with teams that have larger lineups, its better to have Daniels, House, and Noc.

[timepiece33]

Nocioni is more effective offensively, and way more effective defensively.

Nocioni isn't way more effective defensively than anybody.  People look at his physical nature and forget to see that he doesn't have the footspeed to stick with most power forwards much less most small forwards.  The guy is effective at fouling when he gets beat off the dribble.  He's really a terrible one on one defender.  

That coupled with his mad bomber mentality and his unwillingness to play within a team structure offensively makes him a concern.

If we trade for Nocioni, we are keeping the same amount of salary.  If we sign Wally to some sort of deal it would be adding salary, and taking up another roster spot we don't have.

If we trade Tony Allen and Scalabrine for Nocioni, we are taking on the same salary as Szczerbiak would make if we cut Tony Allen outright without a three year additional commitment.

We are already in the luxury tax buddy, and if we want to continue winning we need to stay there.  If it means we have to take on another 3 years of contract, than that just means we have already found somebody for the next 3 years.

We have a massive decision with Rondo coming up.  IMO, we are going to resign him ... which likely means that we will have some flexibility with Ray Allen.   Add Nocioni and that flexibility becomes less clear unless you believe these guys are willing to pay the luxury tax for an ongoing period of time.

I don't know why you would ever turn away talent because you're scared of their contract.

Because this isn't fantasy basketball and there are financial considerations that will likely drive decisions.  

Also, I see no reason why Nocioni, House, and Daniels could all play 15-20 minutes a game.

With Doc's rotations?

[jambr380]

This Nocioni thing just won't go away. While I like him as a player, he really does make a little too much for a little too long. With Rondo due for a big pay raise, it would be a real shame if bringing in Nocioni had any impact on Rondo's signing whatsoever.

I say we wait until the trade deadline to do anything. Something better may come along. Tony Allen is going to get some spot minutes as a back up, whether we like it or not. Maybe, just maybe, he can prove himself as an NBA player and another team will be willing to take him on. We have some great expiring contracts in our pockets. I hate to waste them all on a player who may not be worth it.

[Smitty77]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but according to Hoopshype, Nocioni's 4th year is a TEAM option.  Why are we talking about paying him for 4 years.  It would MOST likely be for only three.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/sacramento.htm

Smitty77

[greenwise]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but according to Hoopshype, Nocioni's 4th year is a TEAM option.  Why are we talking about paying him for 4 years.  It would MOST likely be for only three.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/sacramento.htm

Smitty77

TP Smitty. I checked on shamports too and they also signal that 4th year as a team option one.

[mgent]

And this year wouldn't even count because we'd have to pay TA and Scal's salaries anyway.  So you're looking at being "stuck" with this guy for 2 extra years.

We have Rasheed signed for 3 years for almost the same amount.  I don't see the problem.  Next year our bench will consist of Rasheed and Davis.  We gotta start rebuilding it sometime.

[Gomesfan]

There isn't many sites talking about this at all, as a matter fact when was the most recent mention of this beside in this thread?

[mgent]

There isn't many sites talking about this at all, as a matter fact when was the most recent mention of this beside in this thread?

There isn't really much to talk about.  This trade is very unlikely.