Nocioni Rumor (merged)

[Jon]

While from a pure basketball move, I'd love to see Nocioni end up here, I'm not so sure it happens.  As many have pointed out, Nocioni has 4 years at 7 million a year left on his deal.  If I'm Danny Ainge going to Wyc Grousbeck trying to pitch this deal, I ask two questions: 1) what does it do for the C's this year and 2) what does it do for the C's down the road?

Concerning question #1, I'm not sure he helps the C's this year as much as many people think.  Even during the regular season, Rondo/Allen/Pierce should put up 100+ mpg.  That leaves only 44 minutes or so of backup time between the 1-3 spots.  There's absolutely no reason why House and Daniels can't cover all those minutes.  And come playoff time when the starters will likely consume 110+ mpg, there's REALLY no reason to think that House and Daniels can't split a whopping 34 mpg.  So the question becomes, can/should Danny try to persuade ownership to add 7 million (really 14 million with luxury taxes) so that the C's can have either a nice 9th or 10th man who won't get many minutes unless there's an injury OR a slight upgrade over Marquis Daniels?  I don't think so.

Concerning question #2 and the future, what does Nocioni do beyond this year?  Well, he may add so much salary that the C's might not use the MLE next year.  So Danny then has to ask himself, what's worth more, the MLE or Nocioni?  Given what the C's landed this with the MLE, I'd say the MLE.  

Furthermore, in many ways the C's are faced with a Posey-like conundrum.  Yes, Nocioni is young enough that he won't fade as Posey would've.  However, like Ainge insisted with the Posey situation, Nocioni will be a huge burden on this team in the last two years of his deal.  Because while you might be able to argue he has value to the team now, 3 years from now when the team's rebuilding, the C's will really have no use for a backup swingman making 7 million a year.  

I just don't see how he works from a practical standpoint.  At best he's an expensive upgrade over Daniels or House that only possibly makes the team better.  At worst he's a drain on the team's finances that hurts their ability to acquire other talent over the next few years.  

[Brickowski]

I want Rodriguez because they need a backup point guard.  They don't need another forward.

I never said Rodriguez is better than Nocioni.  I am saying that he makes 24 million dollars less and fills a need.  Nocioni doesn't.

Nocioni is no Posey.  Posey could defend three positions.  Nocioni can't even defend one.  I'd rather keep Glenn Davis, who can defend two positions and has proven to be a clutch player.  You wouldn't have to give up Davis to get Rodriguez.

[kozlodoev]

I want Rodriguez because they need a backup point guard.  They don't need another forward.

I nevcer said Rodriguez is better than Nocioni.  I am saying that he makes 24 million dollars less and fills a need.  Nocioni doesn't.

Nocioni is no Posey.  Posey could defend three positions.  Nocioni can't even defend one.  I'd rather keep Glenn Davis, who can defend two positions and has proven to be a clutch player.  

And Rodrigues, who has been a marginal player at best for his NBA tenure, is the C's solution at PG? I have a hard time believing this.

[Fafnir]

Nocioni is not worth 28 million over the next 4 years.  He's too small to play the 4 and too slow to play the three.  He doesn't defend particularly well and he's inconsistent offensively.

Now if the Kings want to do Kevin Martin, Nocioni and Rodriguez for Ray Allen and a youngster, that's fine with me, although I'd only put up with the overpaid, overhyped Nocioni in order to get the Reggie Lewis-like Martin.

Nocioni>>>>>Posey And if you disagree you don't know basketball. Posey is the more accomplished player with his 2 rings. But Andres is the better player (stats don't lie)

I'm curious what stats you are referring to. Care to share?

[Brickowski]

I want Rodriguez because they need a backup point guard.  They don't need another forward.

I nevcer said Rodriguez is better than Nocioni.  I am saying that he makes 24 million dollars less and fills a need.  Nocioni doesn't.

Nocioni is no Posey.  Posey could defend three positions.  Nocioni can't even defend one.  I'd rather keep Glenn Davis, who can defend two positions and has proven to be a clutch player.  

And Rodrigues, who has been a marginal player at best for his NBA tenure, is the C's solution at PG? I have a hard time believing this.

He's a possible solution at backup pg for 10 minutes a game.  Yes, absolutely.  And he's fun to watch.

[Tai]

I want Rodriguez because they need a backup point guard.  They don't need another forward.

I never said Rodriguez is better than Nocioni.  I am saying that he makes 24 million dollars less and fills a need.  Nocioni doesn't.

Nocioni is no Posey.  Posey could defend three positions.  Nocioni can't even defend one.  I'd rather keep Glenn Davis, who can defend two positions and has proven to be a clutch player.  You wouldn't have to give up Davis to get Rodriguez.

As far as Nocioni, Jon covered everything. Financially, we could be looking at another Posey. Ok, I can buy that.

Rodriguez? Heh, I'd much rather Mike Taylor or see what Hudson can do. If I'm Danny, I'm not giving up ANY players for Rodriguez. 

[timepiece33]

This would be a terrible deal for the Celtics.  IMO, we have salary flexibility with Rondo and Allen likely swapping places.   If this deal happens, I don't see Allen coming back.

Nocioni is a good player for a bad team.  He's an offensive blackhole who doesn't play good defense.   

[JHTruth]

Nocioni is perfect for us. Make it happen and no one, I repeat no one can stop us.

[greenwise]

Nocioni is a good player for a bad team.  He's an offensive blackhole who doesn't play good defense.   

I wonder how many times you've really watched him playing. Maybe it's again using the stereotype of the "non-american therefore not good defender, non-athletic" thing... Really, Nocioni is NOT that at all.

The only problem with Andres is the length of his contract. Other than that he would be ideal for the C's. And he's a winner and a proven competitor

[Tai]

Nocioni is a good player for a bad team.  He's an offensive blackhole who doesn't play good defense.   

I wonder how many times you've really watched him playing. Maybe it's again using the stereotype of the "non-american therefore not good defender, non-athletic" thing... Really, Nocioni is NOT that at all.

The only problem with Andres is the length of his contract. Other than that he would be ideal for the C's. And he's a winner and a proven competitor

Well, if that's how he felt about Nocioni, I don't think he would've wanted Sergio Rodriguez, either. 

[greenwise]

Nocioni is a good player for a bad team.  He's an offensive blackhole who doesn't play good defense.   

I wonder how many times you've really watched him playing. Maybe it's again using the stereotype of the "non-american therefore not good defender, non-athletic" thing... Really, Nocioni is NOT that at all.

The only problem with Andres is the length of his contract. Other than that he would be ideal for the C's. And he's a winner and a proven competitor

Well, if that's how he felt about Nocioni, I don't think he would've wanted Sergio Rodriguez, either. 

LOL, true!

[CoachBo]

Nocioni is a good player for a bad team.  He's an offensive blackhole who doesn't play good defense.   

I wonder how many times you've really watched him playing. Maybe it's again using the stereotype of the "non-american therefore not good defender, non-athletic" thing... Really, Nocioni is NOT that at all.

The only problem with Andres is the length of his contract. Other than that he would be ideal for the C's. And he's a winner and a proven competitor

Could not agree more. Noc has the skillset we're looking for at the backup 3.

[jdpapa3]

I agree with Jon. Noc is a good resort if we have injuries.

I believe that if you added him to this team right now, it would create some definite fighting amongst the team. It would create bad chemistry waves. I'm sure Daniels was promised a certain amount of minutes and can't really handle full time backup point duties, and House needs minutes.

[D Dub]

Meh, I'd rather just stand pat.

We've added Daniels who'll play a lot of 3.  And we've got a stable of wings who all know the system in Scal, TA, Walker and Giddens in case he goes down.     

The talent has been assembled, I'd prefer to just let em' gel from here on out. 

Honestly, who in the association has a better nine-man rotation?

[timepiece33]

Nocioni is a good player for a bad team.  He's an offensive blackhole who doesn't play good defense.   

I wonder how many times you've really watched him playing. Maybe it's again using the stereotype of the "non-american therefore not good defender, non-athletic" thing... Really, Nocioni is NOT that at all.

The only problem with Andres is the length of his contract. Other than that he would be ideal for the C's. And he's a winner and a proven competitor

I've watched him play quite a bit because of geographic considerations and he is everything I've said he is.  The guy doesn't play defense and the concept of "pass" is foreign to him.  That point is backed up by his assist numbers. It isn't based on some assumption and certainly isn't based on "stereotypes".

Sometimes I get the feeling that some of you guys look at basic counting stats and assess a player. 

With his current contract, I'd rather have Allen and Scalabrine.   If I felt that the ownership group would resign Ray Allen with the acquisition of this guy, I would view it as a bad move instead of a terrible one.

This team needs complementary players that won't diffuse the impact of our offensive impact players.  Based on what I've seen, this guy has no interest in being a complementary player and never has no matter how much revisionist history is going to be thrown on this board. 

For our team, give me Posey any day of the week.  Do I believe that Nocioni has the capability to put up better numbers?  Sure, but I'd prefer someone who has proven to know his role.