Nocioni Rumor (merged)

[indeedproceed]

I've seen Nocioni play lots of times:  with the Argentinian national team (in both the world championships and the Olympics), with the Bulls and the Kings.  That's why I don't want him.

Streak shooter, slow feet, no athleticism, overpaid.  Instead of Nocioni, why not go after Matt Harpring, who has an expiring contract at about the same money and plays a little defense?

But I'll answer my own question: this team doesn't need a player like Nocioni or Harpring.  It needs a backup pg.  When they get a backup pg, they are 100% set. I'd rather give Nocioni's money to Rondo or use it to sign Marquis Daniels long term. 

This team is going to be too good over the next 2-3 years to get much help from the draft.  It's Rondo, Perkins and younger veterans like Daniels who will need to carry the team after the big three ride off into the sunset.  That's where the money should go, not to some 30 year-old bench forward.

Brick, I'm with you, but Bobby Jackson and Nocioni for Scal and TA, like on the front page.  You wouldn't do that?

No, and neither would you because the salaries don't match.  And even if the salaries matched, I wouldn't do it.  I'm not paying Nocioni 7 million a year for the next 4 years, even if he was offered to me for free.

I agree.  Too many people are looking at this situation like we're building an army, where the more "warriors" we get, the more likely we are to win a battle.  However, basketball is not like that.  Once you get beyond the 8th or 9th man, you're really just looking at depth and development. 

If Nocioni came here, I'm not sure he'd get more than 5-10 mpg in the regular season and I'm not sure he'd even get off the bench come playoff time.  Paying a guy 7 million a year for that type of uncertainty isn't worth it.  Especially when it could mean no MLE next year. 

paying a 10 mpg guy 7 million a year....what does our starting center think of that when he looks at his paycheck
or our future star pg (or his agent) when a sub makes 7 mill what is a future all star worth

Great point.

[Drucci]

I don't know much about Nocioni but I don't really like him as a player.

As for the length of his contract, I would rather bring back Posey instead...

So I would say no to Nocioni right now, preferring to let Marquis play a lot of minutes and keep our expiring contracts and maybe use them during the season if necessary.

How can you say you don't like him when you haven't seen him? Most ridiculous thing I've ever seen... And I've seen it a lot in this thread. At least watch him play first.

And I'll bet right now that Marquis is going to let a lot of people down this season.

"I don't know much about him" means I've seen him play a few times only. Didn't impressed me in a positive way, and I don't like him because... well, it's physical but I didn't like his game either. Too much one and ones and dumb plays. Can't stand his face and he didn't seem like a really good player to me. I'm not sure he would fit in well in Boston, especially when you consider that he isn't in the "we, not me" mentality.

You can't stand his face? Like literally? I didn't know the NBA was a beauty pageant.

Come on, are you trying to convince me that you've never hated a guy in the league without explanation or because his behaviour is annoying? I can't stand Vujacic, Gasol, Mo Williams and others, and I can't really explain it. It doesn't me prevent from acknowledging their skills (except for Vujacic who isn't skilled ).

Same thing for Nocioni. I know he has qualities but I can't stand him and I certainly hate the idea of bringing his long and huge contract for the coming years, while he would get a little playing time.

[Brickowski]

If you need a forward off the bench, there's always Szczerbiak.  He's the same size as Nocioni, a better shooter, not that much worse defensively and he knows Rivers' system.

Plus, he's a free agent and could probably be had for the veterans minimum or close to it.

[BrickJames]

I've seen Nocioni play lots of times:  with the Argentinian national team (in both the world championships and the Olympics), with the Bulls and the Kings.  That's why I don't want him.

Streak shooter, slow feet, no athleticism, overpaid.  Instead of Nocioni, why not go after Matt Harpring, who has an expiring contract at about the same money and plays a little defense?

But I'll answer my own question: this team doesn't need a player like Nocioni or Harpring.  It needs a backup pg.  When they get a backup pg, they are 100% set. I'd rather give Nocioni's money to Rondo or use it to sign Marquis Daniels long term. 

This team is going to be too good over the next 2-3 years to get much help from the draft.  It's Rondo, Perkins and younger veterans like Daniels who will need to carry the team after the big three ride off into the sunset.  That's where the money should go, not to some 30 year-old bench forward.

Brick, I'm with you, but Bobby Jackson and Nocioni for Scal and TA, like on the front page.  You wouldn't do that?

No, and neither would you because the salaries don't match.  And even if the salaries matched, I wouldn't do it.  I'm not paying Nocioni 7 million a year for the next 4 years, even if he was offered to me for free.

Valid point on Nocioni's salary.  If money were not an issue (which it is)  despite his size, I think he would outperform in the Scalabrine role given the Williams/Wallace acquisitions.

But it's moot - you're right, his salary is a crutch that would hurt the team in the future.

But then again - what's our window to win?  Certainly this year, but how many after?  Sheed, KG, Pierce, and Allen aren't getting any younger.

And let's not kid ourselves.  Unless we get Wade/LBJ/Bosh, their replacements will leave some to be desired.

Go all out to win now, or be financially prudent?  Hmm... it really is quite the question.

I do feel like the team, as presently constituted, has the personnel to win now.  So the more I think about it the more I agree with you.

That said I too have watched Nocioni play quite a bit, and we disagree on evaluating his talent.

[BrickJames]

If you need a forward off the bench, there's always Szczerbiak.  He's the same size as Nocioni, a better shooter, not that much worse defensively and he knows Rivers' system.

Plus, he's a free agent and could probably be had for the veterans minimum or close to it.

Whole heartedly disagree here.  Nocioni, like Posey and Scal, is an agitator on D.  Wally is a joke.

[lon3lytoaster]

I don't know much about Nocioni but I don't really like him as a player.

As for the length of his contract, I would rather bring back Posey instead...

So I would say no to Nocioni right now, preferring to let Marquis play a lot of minutes and keep our expiring contracts and maybe use them during the season if necessary.

How can you say you don't like him when you haven't seen him? Most ridiculous thing I've ever seen... And I've seen it a lot in this thread. At least watch him play first.

And I'll bet right now that Marquis is going to let a lot of people down this season.

"I don't know much about him" means I've seen him play a few times only. Didn't impressed me in a positive way, and I don't like him because... well, it's physical but I didn't like his game either. Too much one and ones and dumb plays. Can't stand his face and he didn't seem like a really good player to me. I'm not sure he would fit in well in Boston, especially when you consider that he isn't in the "we, not me" mentality.

You can't stand his face? Like literally? I didn't know the NBA was a beauty pageant.

Come on, are you trying to convince me that you've never hated a guy in the league without explanation or because his behaviour is annoying? I can't stand Vujacic, Gasol, Mo Williams and others, and I can't really explain it. It doesn't me prevent from acknowledging their skills (except for Vujacic who isn't skilled ).

Same thing for Nocioni. I know he has qualities but I can't stand him and I certainly hate the idea of bringing his long and huge contract for the coming years, while he would get a little playing time.

Nah, I hate Vujacic cause he's a Laker and a complete Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. pansy prick. Gasol because he's a cupcake and Mo because he's an idiot who thinks a basketball is a crystal ball. Worked out real well for him against Orlando.

Will give you this, though... Pau does look like a really ugly bird or something.

[mgent]

There's no good reason to not want this trade.  Although his contract is big, I think it's worth the money.  Why not give us the best chance possible to win?

[timepiece33]

There's no good reason to not want this trade.  Although his contract is big, I think it's worth the money.  Why not give us the best chance possible to win?

If you disregard his defense and unwillingness to play within an offense?   

I believe he is better than Wally Szcerbiak, but for the minimum ... you can get a similar player.   

This guy is not worth the money.  Period especially for a team over the luxury tax threshold. 

IMO, this acquisition means Ray Allen is not here next year and to be blunt ... this guy is nowhere near Allen in terms of effectiveness.

[mgent]

There's no good reason to not want this trade.  Although his contract is big, I think it's worth the money.  Why not give us the best chance possible to win?

If you disregard his defense and unwillingness to play within an offense?   

I believe he is better than Wally Szcerbiak, but for the minimum ... you can get a similar player.   

This guy is not worth the money.  Period especially for a team over the luxury tax threshold. 

IMO, this acquisition means Ray Allen is not here next year and to be blunt ... this guy is nowhere near Allen in terms of effectiveness.

First of all, his offense and defense are fine for a bench player.

Second of all, there is nobody even close to Nocioni available for the minimum.

In terms of a trade, we would not be taking on any extra salary.

And there's no reason that Ray Allen wouldn't be able to play here next year.

[ssspence]

If you need a forward off the bench, there's always Szczerbiak.  He's the same size as Nocioni, a better shooter, not that much worse defensively and he knows Rivers' system.

Plus, he's a free agent and could probably be had for the veterans minimum or close to it.

i think you just said Nocioni's D is not much better than Wallyworld... ok, everyone laugh with me now in unison. 

[Brickowski]

If you need a forward off the bench, there's always Szczerbiak.  He's the same size as Nocioni, a better shooter, not that much worse defensively and he knows Rivers' system.

Plus, he's a free agent and could probably be had for the veterans minimum or close to it.

i think you just said Nocioni's D is not much better than Wallyworld... ok, everyone laugh with me now in unison. 

Wally was a rotation player on a good team, and was playing long after Nocioni had gone fishin'. Neither one defends particularly well.

Nocioni is Petrie's problem.  Let's keep it that way.

[Tai]

If you need a forward off the bench, there's always Szczerbiak.  He's the same size as Nocioni, a better shooter, not that much worse defensively and he knows Rivers' system.

Plus, he's a free agent and could probably be had for the veterans minimum or close to it.

i think you just said Nocioni's D is not much better than Wallyworld... ok, everyone laugh with me now in unison. 

Wally was a rotation player on a good team, and was playing long after Nocioni had gone fishin'. Neither one defends particularly well.

Nocioni is Petrie's problem.  Let's keep it that way.

But you want Wally has our problem, right? 

I agree with sspence *laughs*.

But in all seriousness...is getting Jackson a good idea for us, instead? Would he really play that much more than Nocioni? Not unless we're trading someone in our supposedly set 9-man rotation.

I don't think a trade's happening, at least not before the season starts.

[Jon]

I've seen Nocioni play lots of times:  with the Argentinian national team (in both the world championships and the Olympics), with the Bulls and the Kings.  That's why I don't want him.

Streak shooter, slow feet, no athleticism, overpaid.  Instead of Nocioni, why not go after Matt Harpring, who has an expiring contract at about the same money and plays a little defense?

But I'll answer my own question: this team doesn't need a player like Nocioni or Harpring.  It needs a backup pg.  When they get a backup pg, they are 100% set. I'd rather give Nocioni's money to Rondo or use it to sign Marquis Daniels long term. 

This team is going to be too good over the next 2-3 years to get much help from the draft.  It's Rondo, Perkins and younger veterans like Daniels who will need to carry the team after the big three ride off into the sunset.  That's where the money should go, not to some 30 year-old bench forward.

Brick, I'm with you, but Bobby Jackson and Nocioni for Scal and TA, like on the front page.  You wouldn't do that?

No, and neither would you because the salaries don't match.  And even if the salaries matched, I wouldn't do it.  I'm not paying Nocioni 7 million a year for the next 4 years, even if he was offered to me for free.

Valid point on Nocioni's salary.  If money were not an issue (which it is)  despite his size, I think he would outperform in the Scalabrine role given the Williams/Wallace acquisitions.

But it's moot - you're right, his salary is a crutch that would hurt the team in the future.

But then again - what's our window to win?  Certainly this year, but how many after?  Sheed, KG, Pierce, and Allen aren't getting any younger.

And let's not kid ourselves.  Unless we get Wade/LBJ/Bosh, their replacements will leave some to be desired.

Go all out to win now, or be financially prudent?  Hmm... it really is quite the question.

I do feel like the team, as presently constituted, has the personnel to win now.  So the more I think about it the more I agree with you.

That said I too have watched Nocioni play quite a bit, and we disagree on evaluating his talent.

I've agreed with the sentiment that being financially prudent concerning the future isn't necessarily the best thing for this team.  I agree it's OK to screw ourselves three years from now to win this year or next.

However, I don't think Nocioni helps this year, let alone three years from now.  And I think your comments reveal that too.  You say that Nocioni "would outperform in the Scalabrine role."  I agree.  The only problem is that Scalabrine doesn't have a role.  He only had a role last year when half the team was hurt. 

7 million a year is too much for a guy who might not even break the rotation, especially since it may mean no MLE next year. 

[Tai]

I've seen Nocioni play lots of times:  with the Argentinian national team (in both the world championships and the Olympics), with the Bulls and the Kings.  That's why I don't want him.

Streak shooter, slow feet, no athleticism, overpaid.  Instead of Nocioni, why not go after Matt Harpring, who has an expiring contract at about the same money and plays a little defense?

But I'll answer my own question: this team doesn't need a player like Nocioni or Harpring.  It needs a backup pg.  When they get a backup pg, they are 100% set. I'd rather give Nocioni's money to Rondo or use it to sign Marquis Daniels long term. 

This team is going to be too good over the next 2-3 years to get much help from the draft.  It's Rondo, Perkins and younger veterans like Daniels who will need to carry the team after the big three ride off into the sunset.  That's where the money should go, not to some 30 year-old bench forward.

Brick, I'm with you, but Bobby Jackson and Nocioni for Scal and TA, like on the front page.  You wouldn't do that?

No, and neither would you because the salaries don't match.  And even if the salaries matched, I wouldn't do it.  I'm not paying Nocioni 7 million a year for the next 4 years, even if he was offered to me for free.

Valid point on Nocioni's salary.  If money were not an issue (which it is)  despite his size, I think he would outperform in the Scalabrine role given the Williams/Wallace acquisitions.

But it's moot - you're right, his salary is a crutch that would hurt the team in the future.

But then again - what's our window to win?  Certainly this year, but how many after?  Sheed, KG, Pierce, and Allen aren't getting any younger.

And let's not kid ourselves.  Unless we get Wade/LBJ/Bosh, their replacements will leave some to be desired.

Go all out to win now, or be financially prudent?  Hmm... it really is quite the question.

I do feel like the team, as presently constituted, has the personnel to win now.  So the more I think about it the more I agree with you.

That said I too have watched Nocioni play quite a bit, and we disagree on evaluating his talent.

I've agreed with the sentiment that being financially prudent concerning the future isn't necessarily the best thing for this team.  I agree it's OK to screw ourselves three years from now to win this year or next.

However, I don't think Nocioni helps this year, let alone three years from now.  And I think your comments reveal that too.  You say that Nocioni "would outperform in the Scalabrine role."  I agree.  The only problem is that Scalabrine doesn't have a role.  He only had a role last year when half the team was hurt. 

7 million a year is too much for a guy who might not even break the rotation, especially since it may mean no MLE next year. 

Then, do you agree a trade doesn't happen period unless it involves someone in the 9-man rotation?

[Brickowski]

If you need a forward off the bench, there's always Szczerbiak.  He's the same size as Nocioni, a better shooter, not that much worse defensively and he knows Rivers' system.

Plus, he's a free agent and could probably be had for the veterans minimum or close to it.

i think you just said Nocioni's D is not much better than Wallyworld... ok, everyone laugh with me now in unison. 

Wally was a rotation player on a good team, and was playing long after Nocioni had gone fishin'. Neither one defends particularly well.

Nocioni is Petrie's problem.  Let's keep it that way.

But you want Wally has our problem, right? 

 

Well, Wally is a 1.3 M problem for one year.
Nocioni is  a 28 M. dollar problem for 4 years.

Do you really think that Nocioni is 26.7 M. dollars better than Szczerbiak, especially considering that neither one would play for more than 10-15 minutes per game?

If you are suffering from Posey envy, why not go after the genuine article?  I'm sure the Hornets would be delighted to dump him for expiring contracts.