Praise for Joe

[Neurotic Guy]

Remember (I know you all do because it was all you screaming it game after game) how poorly Joe managed timeouts.  He has made crazy progress on using TOs strategically. ATOs not always great but he?s come a long way using them to stop momentum and provide a breather when needed. He also has a knack for coaches challenges.  I still think they rely too much on the three.  That?s why I love JB so much this year. He?s making space for his midrange and he has been amazing driving to the basket.

[tenn_smoothie]

Yes, Mazzulla does some things well and he has improved in some areas.
But his 3-point heavy offensive scheme (with no alternative) is so limiting, that I cannot give him a pass.
I continue to believe that this team would be much better off with a different head coach.

[Celtics2021]

Agree with Roy, Mazzula deserves strong credit for our play so far.  I say that as someone who has been very critical of him at times.  Last season was a major failure, especially the playoffs.  3rd quarter of game 1 against the Knicks was straight up coaching malpractice after a successful, balanced first half.  It was the most ineffective and idiotic quarter of basketball I've ever seen, employing Joe's rigid 3-point happy philosophy and moving away from what was working.  I'll never forget it, and quite frankly I think Joe helped us squander another title run.  But I digress.  If I'm going to criticize him, I should also praise him when things are going well.

The fact that we're still one of the top defensive teams despite the roster turnover and missing one of our best defenders in Tatum says a lot.  4th in defensive rating as a few games ago IIRC.  Always important to be a good defensive team, so I'm glad that's the emphasis.  The youngsters are developing well.  And the offense has been functioning better than expected while missing Tatum.  So props to Joe, for now.

Yeah, I think Tatum tearing his Achilles squandered the title run. But that?s just me.

It's just you.  We were underachieving pretty much the entire series with the way we were playing and lost in embarrassing fashion twice with him before he got injured.  If we beat the Knicks, it'd have been difficult to beat an Indiana team that was probably better than us despite having less inherent talent, and were definitely better than the Knicks.  Even if we beat Indy, we would have lost to OKC.  They were simply better than we were, and better coached too.

Edit: I guess long story short is Joe failed to get the most out of his roster that year.  The players deserve most of the blame, as they always do when they lose badly, but Joe had no small part in the playoff failure.  IMO the roster that year had all the right personnel to defeat the Knicks and exploit their defensive weaknesses.  Instead we just bombed 3's and died by it, all while putting together a defensive effort that was not reflective of the incredible versatility and talent we possessed.  Squandered.

No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

[SCeltic34]

Agree with Roy, Mazzula deserves strong credit for our play so far.  I say that as someone who has been very critical of him at times.  Last season was a major failure, especially the playoffs.  3rd quarter of game 1 against the Knicks was straight up coaching malpractice after a successful, balanced first half.  It was the most ineffective and idiotic quarter of basketball I've ever seen, employing Joe's rigid 3-point happy philosophy and moving away from what was working.  I'll never forget it, and quite frankly I think Joe helped us squander another title run.  But I digress.  If I'm going to criticize him, I should also praise him when things are going well.

The fact that we're still one of the top defensive teams despite the roster turnover and missing one of our best defenders in Tatum says a lot.  4th in defensive rating as a few games ago IIRC.  Always important to be a good defensive team, so I'm glad that's the emphasis.  The youngsters are developing well.  And the offense has been functioning better than expected while missing Tatum.  So props to Joe, for now.

Yeah, I think Tatum tearing his Achilles squandered the title run. But that?s just me.

It's just you.  We were underachieving pretty much the entire series with the way we were playing and lost in embarrassing fashion twice with him before he got injured.  If we beat the Knicks, it'd have been difficult to beat an Indiana team that was probably better than us despite having less inherent talent, and were definitely better than the Knicks.  Even if we beat Indy, we would have lost to OKC.  They were simply better than we were, and better coached too.

Edit: I guess long story short is Joe failed to get the most out of his roster that year.  The players deserve most of the blame, as they always do when they lose badly, but Joe had no small part in the playoff failure.  IMO the roster that year had all the right personnel to defeat the Knicks and exploit their defensive weaknesses.  Instead we just bombed 3's and died by it, all while putting together a defensive effort that was not reflective of the incredible versatility and talent we possessed.  Squandered.

No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

We weren't fully healthy.  I recognize Porzingis' absence from illness.  But to claim we didn't have the energy to do much else?  Let's not make excuses here.  Every team has its nagging injuries come playoff time.

We underperformed under Joe's supervision.  The results speak for itself.  A roster as talented as the C's had shouldn't be exiting in the 2nd round against an inferior opponent.  We also dominated in the playoffs during the title season largely without Porzingis.  We had enough tools and talent.

[Vermont Green]

No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

This is all pretty factual, facts that tend to get lost in the drama and emotion of losing games to NYK that BOS probably shouldn't have lost.  That was not a good series for Mazzulla or anyone else, injured or otherwise.  Multiple things can be true at the same time.  Mazzulla shares some of the blame for losing that series.  Just like he deserves credit for the team winning a title the season before.  It is really hard to definitively rate a coach but really easy to blame the coach.  I think Mazzulla has performed at a top 10 level as an NBA coach for his career.  If CotY voting were today, he would probably come in top 3 or higher for this season.

[Goldstar88]

No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

This is all pretty factual, facts that tend to get lost in the drama and emotion of losing games to NYK that BOS probably shouldn't have lost.  That was not a good series for Mazzulla or anyone else, injured or otherwise.  Multiple things can be true at the same time.  Mazzulla shares some of the blame for losing that series.  Just like he deserves credit for the team winning a title the season before.  It is really hard to definitively rate a coach but really easy to blame the coach.  I think Mazzulla has performed at a top 10 level as an NBA coach for his career.  If CotY voting were today, he would probably come in top 3 or higher for this season.

Is it safe to say that they weren?t contending after Tatum went down, though? Other guys were banged up, but it?s sort of moot once you lose Tatum.

[Vermont Green]

No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

This is all pretty factual, facts that tend to get lost in the drama and emotion of losing games to NYK that BOS probably shouldn't have lost.  That was not a good series for Mazzulla or anyone else, injured or otherwise.  Multiple things can be true at the same time.  Mazzulla shares some of the blame for losing that series.  Just like he deserves credit for the team winning a title the season before.  It is really hard to definitively rate a coach but really easy to blame the coach.  I think Mazzulla has performed at a top 10 level as an NBA coach for his career.  If CotY voting were today, he would probably come in top 3 or higher for this season.

Is it safe to say that they weren't contending after Tatum went down, though? Other guys were banged up, but it's sort of moot once you lose Tatum.

They were already down 3-1 to NYK after blowing a couple of 20-point leads when Tatum went down.  That was more like salt in an already sustained flesh wound.  BOS was not good in the series even with Tatum.  They should have been up 3-1.  Are you saying that even if they were up 3-1, that once Tatum goes down they lose anyway?  I don't see this taking them off the hook for being down 3-1 to NYK in the first place.

[Donoghus]

No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

This is all pretty factual, facts that tend to get lost in the drama and emotion of losing games to NYK that BOS probably shouldn't have lost.  That was not a good series for Mazzulla or anyone else, injured or otherwise.  Multiple things can be true at the same time.  Mazzulla shares some of the blame for losing that series.  Just like he deserves credit for the team winning a title the season before.  It is really hard to definitively rate a coach but really easy to blame the coach.  I think Mazzulla has performed at a top 10 level as an NBA coach for his career.  If CotY voting were today, he would probably come in top 3 or higher for this season.

Is it safe to say that they weren't contending after Tatum went down, though? Other guys were banged up, but it's sort of moot once you lose Tatum.

They were already down 3-1 to NYK after blowing a couple of 20-point leads when Tatum went down.  That was more like salt in an already sustained flesh wound.  BOS was not good in the series even with Tatum.  They should have been up 3-1.  Are you saying that even if they were up 3-1, that once Tatum goes down they lose anyway?  I don't see this taking them off the hook for being down 3-1 to NYK in the first place.

Yeah, they weren't crawling back in that series. 

If somehow that made it to the Finals, they were gonna get lit up by OKC.   Team was limping along.

[Goldstar88]

No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

This is all pretty factual, facts that tend to get lost in the drama and emotion of losing games to NYK that BOS probably shouldn't have lost.  That was not a good series for Mazzulla or anyone else, injured or otherwise.  Multiple things can be true at the same time.  Mazzulla shares some of the blame for losing that series.  Just like he deserves credit for the team winning a title the season before.  It is really hard to definitively rate a coach but really easy to blame the coach.  I think Mazzulla has performed at a top 10 level as an NBA coach for his career.  If CotY voting were today, he would probably come in top 3 or higher for this season.

Is it safe to say that they weren't contending after Tatum went down, though? Other guys were banged up, but it's sort of moot once you lose Tatum.

They were already down 3-1 to NYK after blowing a couple of 20-point leads when Tatum went down.  That was more like salt in an already sustained flesh wound.  BOS was not good in the series even with Tatum.  They should have been up 3-1.  Are you saying that even if they were up 3-1, that once Tatum goes down they lose anyway?  I don't see this taking them off the hook for being down 3-1 to NYK in the first place.

With Tatum, I give them a punchers chance to come back in that series. I?m talking about contending in general, though. Once he went down they weren?t going anywhere.