Author Topic: Praise for Joe  (Read 2280 times)

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Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2025, 10:27:11 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Remember (I know you all do because it was all you screaming it game after game) how poorly Joe managed timeouts.  He has made crazy progress on using TOs strategically. ATOs not always great but he?s come a long way using them to stop momentum and provide a breather when needed. He also has a knack for coaches challenges.  I still think they rely too much on the three.  That?s why I love JB so much this year. He?s making space for his midrange and he has been amazing driving to the basket.

Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2025, 11:26:44 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Yes, Mazzulla does some things well and he has improved in some areas.
But his 3-point heavy offensive scheme (with no alternative) is so limiting, that I cannot give him a pass.
I continue to believe that this team would be much better off with a different head coach.
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Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 07:58:12 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Agree with Roy, Mazzula deserves strong credit for our play so far.  I say that as someone who has been very critical of him at times.  Last season was a major failure, especially the playoffs.  3rd quarter of game 1 against the Knicks was straight up coaching malpractice after a successful, balanced first half.  It was the most ineffective and idiotic quarter of basketball I've ever seen, employing Joe's rigid 3-point happy philosophy and moving away from what was working.  I'll never forget it, and quite frankly I think Joe helped us squander another title run.  But I digress.  If I'm going to criticize him, I should also praise him when things are going well.

The fact that we're still one of the top defensive teams despite the roster turnover and missing one of our best defenders in Tatum says a lot.  4th in defensive rating as a few games ago IIRC.  Always important to be a good defensive team, so I'm glad that's the emphasis.  The youngsters are developing well.  And the offense has been functioning better than expected while missing Tatum.  So props to Joe, for now.

Yeah, I think Tatum tearing his Achilles squandered the title run. But that?s just me.

It's just you.  We were underachieving pretty much the entire series with the way we were playing and lost in embarrassing fashion twice with him before he got injured.  If we beat the Knicks, it'd have been difficult to beat an Indiana team that was probably better than us despite having less inherent talent, and were definitely better than the Knicks.  Even if we beat Indy, we would have lost to OKC.  They were simply better than we were, and better coached too.

Edit: I guess long story short is Joe failed to get the most out of his roster that year.  The players deserve most of the blame, as they always do when they lose badly, but Joe had no small part in the playoff failure.  IMO the roster that year had all the right personnel to defeat the Knicks and exploit their defensive weaknesses.  Instead we just bombed 3's and died by it, all while putting together a defensive effort that was not reflective of the incredible versatility and talent we possessed.  Squandered.

No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 08:54:58 AM »

Offline SCeltic34

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Agree with Roy, Mazzula deserves strong credit for our play so far.  I say that as someone who has been very critical of him at times.  Last season was a major failure, especially the playoffs.  3rd quarter of game 1 against the Knicks was straight up coaching malpractice after a successful, balanced first half.  It was the most ineffective and idiotic quarter of basketball I've ever seen, employing Joe's rigid 3-point happy philosophy and moving away from what was working.  I'll never forget it, and quite frankly I think Joe helped us squander another title run.  But I digress.  If I'm going to criticize him, I should also praise him when things are going well.

The fact that we're still one of the top defensive teams despite the roster turnover and missing one of our best defenders in Tatum says a lot.  4th in defensive rating as a few games ago IIRC.  Always important to be a good defensive team, so I'm glad that's the emphasis.  The youngsters are developing well.  And the offense has been functioning better than expected while missing Tatum.  So props to Joe, for now.

Yeah, I think Tatum tearing his Achilles squandered the title run. But that?s just me.

It's just you.  We were underachieving pretty much the entire series with the way we were playing and lost in embarrassing fashion twice with him before he got injured.  If we beat the Knicks, it'd have been difficult to beat an Indiana team that was probably better than us despite having less inherent talent, and were definitely better than the Knicks.  Even if we beat Indy, we would have lost to OKC.  They were simply better than we were, and better coached too.

Edit: I guess long story short is Joe failed to get the most out of his roster that year.  The players deserve most of the blame, as they always do when they lose badly, but Joe had no small part in the playoff failure.  IMO the roster that year had all the right personnel to defeat the Knicks and exploit their defensive weaknesses.  Instead we just bombed 3's and died by it, all while putting together a defensive effort that was not reflective of the incredible versatility and talent we possessed.  Squandered.

No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

We weren't fully healthy.  I recognize Porzingis' absence from illness.  But to claim we didn't have the energy to do much else?  Let's not make excuses here.  Every team has its nagging injuries come playoff time.

We underperformed under Joe's supervision.  The results speak for itself.  A roster as talented as the C's had shouldn't be exiting in the 2nd round against an inferior opponent.  We also dominated in the playoffs during the title season largely without Porzingis.  We had enough tools and talent.

Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 09:03:56 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

This is all pretty factual, facts that tend to get lost in the drama and emotion of losing games to NYK that BOS probably shouldn't have lost.  That was not a good series for Mazzulla or anyone else, injured or otherwise.  Multiple things can be true at the same time.  Mazzulla shares some of the blame for losing that series.  Just like he deserves credit for the team winning a title the season before.  It is really hard to definitively rate a coach but really easy to blame the coach.  I think Mazzulla has performed at a top 10 level as an NBA coach for his career.  If CotY voting were today, he would probably come in top 3 or higher for this season.

Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 09:41:06 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

This is all pretty factual, facts that tend to get lost in the drama and emotion of losing games to NYK that BOS probably shouldn't have lost.  That was not a good series for Mazzulla or anyone else, injured or otherwise.  Multiple things can be true at the same time.  Mazzulla shares some of the blame for losing that series.  Just like he deserves credit for the team winning a title the season before.  It is really hard to definitively rate a coach but really easy to blame the coach.  I think Mazzulla has performed at a top 10 level as an NBA coach for his career.  If CotY voting were today, he would probably come in top 3 or higher for this season.

Is it safe to say that they weren?t contending after Tatum went down, though? Other guys were banged up, but it?s sort of moot once you lose Tatum.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 09:51:14 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

This is all pretty factual, facts that tend to get lost in the drama and emotion of losing games to NYK that BOS probably shouldn't have lost.  That was not a good series for Mazzulla or anyone else, injured or otherwise.  Multiple things can be true at the same time.  Mazzulla shares some of the blame for losing that series.  Just like he deserves credit for the team winning a title the season before.  It is really hard to definitively rate a coach but really easy to blame the coach.  I think Mazzulla has performed at a top 10 level as an NBA coach for his career.  If CotY voting were today, he would probably come in top 3 or higher for this season.

Is it safe to say that they weren't contending after Tatum went down, though? Other guys were banged up, but it's sort of moot once you lose Tatum.

They were already down 3-1 to NYK after blowing a couple of 20-point leads when Tatum went down.  That was more like salt in an already sustained flesh wound.  BOS was not good in the series even with Tatum.  They should have been up 3-1.  Are you saying that even if they were up 3-1, that once Tatum goes down they lose anyway?  I don't see this taking them off the hook for being down 3-1 to NYK in the first place.

Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 10:01:40 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

This is all pretty factual, facts that tend to get lost in the drama and emotion of losing games to NYK that BOS probably shouldn't have lost.  That was not a good series for Mazzulla or anyone else, injured or otherwise.  Multiple things can be true at the same time.  Mazzulla shares some of the blame for losing that series.  Just like he deserves credit for the team winning a title the season before.  It is really hard to definitively rate a coach but really easy to blame the coach.  I think Mazzulla has performed at a top 10 level as an NBA coach for his career.  If CotY voting were today, he would probably come in top 3 or higher for this season.

Is it safe to say that they weren't contending after Tatum went down, though? Other guys were banged up, but it's sort of moot once you lose Tatum.

They were already down 3-1 to NYK after blowing a couple of 20-point leads when Tatum went down.  That was more like salt in an already sustained flesh wound.  BOS was not good in the series even with Tatum.  They should have been up 3-1.  Are you saying that even if they were up 3-1, that once Tatum goes down they lose anyway?  I don't see this taking them off the hook for being down 3-1 to NYK in the first place.

Yeah, they weren't crawling back in that series. 

If somehow that made it to the Finals, they were gonna get lit up by OKC.   Team was limping along.


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Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 10:24:26 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

This is all pretty factual, facts that tend to get lost in the drama and emotion of losing games to NYK that BOS probably shouldn't have lost.  That was not a good series for Mazzulla or anyone else, injured or otherwise.  Multiple things can be true at the same time.  Mazzulla shares some of the blame for losing that series.  Just like he deserves credit for the team winning a title the season before.  It is really hard to definitively rate a coach but really easy to blame the coach.  I think Mazzulla has performed at a top 10 level as an NBA coach for his career.  If CotY voting were today, he would probably come in top 3 or higher for this season.

Is it safe to say that they weren't contending after Tatum went down, though? Other guys were banged up, but it's sort of moot once you lose Tatum.

They were already down 3-1 to NYK after blowing a couple of 20-point leads when Tatum went down.  That was more like salt in an already sustained flesh wound.  BOS was not good in the series even with Tatum.  They should have been up 3-1.  Are you saying that even if they were up 3-1, that once Tatum goes down they lose anyway?  I don't see this taking them off the hook for being down 3-1 to NYK in the first place.

With Tatum, I give them a punchers chance to come back in that series. I?m talking about contending in general, though. Once he went down they weren?t going anywhere.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:58:09 AM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 09:16:31 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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No, it is you.  It was not just Tatum tearing his Achilles. It was Brown playing the entire postseason on a torn meniscus.  It was Porzingis being a shell of himself with an illness that is still affecting him this year.  It was Holiday missing time in the playoffs with a hamstring and also having some other condition that caused the Blazers to rescind draft picks in a trade.  It was Tatum getting leveled by the Magic and injuring his wrist.  The Celtics were an injured and old team in the playoffs, and faded down the stretch during games.  They bombed threes because they did not have the energy to do much else.

This is all pretty factual, facts that tend to get lost in the drama and emotion of losing games to NYK that BOS probably shouldn't have lost.  That was not a good series for Mazzulla or anyone else, injured or otherwise.  Multiple things can be true at the same time.  Mazzulla shares some of the blame for losing that series.  Just like he deserves credit for the team winning a title the season before.  It is really hard to definitively rate a coach but really easy to blame the coach.  I think Mazzulla has performed at a top 10 level as an NBA coach for his career.  If CotY voting were today, he would probably come in top 3 or higher for this season.

Is it safe to say that they weren't contending after Tatum went down, though? Other guys were banged up, but it's sort of moot once you lose Tatum.

They were already down 3-1 to NYK after blowing a couple of 20-point leads when Tatum went down.  That was more like salt in an already sustained flesh wound.  BOS was not good in the series even with Tatum.  They should have been up 3-1.  Are you saying that even if they were up 3-1, that once Tatum goes down they lose anyway?  I don't see this taking them off the hook for being down 3-1 to NYK in the first place.

Yeah, they weren't crawling back in that series. 

If somehow that made it to the Finals, they were gonna get lit up by OKC.   Team was limping along.

That's where I'm at. Now if Tatum injured his achilles in the first quarter of game 1, of course my expectations go way down and I actually wouldn't have expected to beat Indy or OKC, or possibly even the Knicks.  But we were underperforming and losing with Tatum in the lineup before he went down.  I'm not surprised people disagree with me.  I just can't forget those blown leads.  Blown leads and losses in the playoffs happen, of course.  For me it's more about how those losses happened.  IIRC in the 3rd quarter of game 1, 19 of the 20 shots taken were 3's, many of them early shot clock, low quality shots.  It was maddening.  I thought with a more patient and balanced approach we should have dismantled the Knicks in 5 games.  6 at most.

In any case I apologize for derailing the thread.  We're supposed to be praising Joe.  So I'll add these things off the top of my head:

- Great job last night against Indy calling out his starters but subbing all of them out in the 3rd quarter.  The bench did an outstanding job picking up the defensive intensity, and the starters sustained it when they came back in.  Every player responded to Joe's move.  Great decision and sub pattern, even if some of the lineups on paper didn't look like they'd be effective.

- I like that he is giving our young players a chance to prove themselves.  He's giving Hugo, Walsh, Minott, and Baylor ample opportunities to prove they can produce, and it's a real dogfight for minutes.  It's great for their development, with Hugo showing great promise and Walsh showing he is an NBA level player.

- He seems to have gotten Simmons to buy into his role.  I suspect Simmons isn't happy here, as his minutes and production have been significantly cut.  I'm sure he'd love to finish games.  You can see he's putting in the effort defensively, and while he looks for his shot (which we need him to do) he's not forcing as many selfish shots as you'd expect for someone who is trying to pad their stats for their next contract (see: Rozier, Terry).  He's had to sacrifice his offense quite a bit and play within the offense.

- Joe and co in general have done an excellent job developing our young players.  Brad found hidden gems (some argue he doesn't draft well which may be partially true, but I'd argue he makes up for it in finding/developing undrafted players) such as Hauser and Kornet, and of course this years young players.  I have confidence this will continue.  And of course both JB and JT grew up in the Brad - Udoka - Joe era.  Hugo has far surpassed my expectations.

I try to be as objective as possible.  I won't apologize for what I think are Joe's failures, and I won't hesitate to praise him when I think he's doing a good job.

Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 10:09:20 PM »

Offline aefgogreen

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The Celtics have surpassed just about everyone?s expectations and Joe deserves a great deal of credit for it. However, the true test will be in the postseason. This is where many of us have felt he?s fallen short.

Re: Praise for Joe
« Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 10:30:40 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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The Celtics have surpassed just about everyone?s expectations and Joe deserves a great deal of credit for it. However, the true test will be in the postseason. This is where many of us have felt he?s fallen short.

Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.